Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

[mhd]

Empathic healing, i.e. the healer taking over the damage from his subject, seems like a classic example for Side Effect. So far, so good. But what if during the healing, any attack on the subject is instantly and totally transfered to the healer?

 

There's some potential for abuse, but generally it's nothing the healer really wants, as combined with the damage he already has taken over, it's likely to drop him. Still, it also has some beneficial effects for the subject, so it doesn't sound like (just) another Side Effect. Probably a secondary Healing + Side Effect? Considering that the first Healing is more likely to involve Extra Time, so that the healer isn't overwhelmed (and that an existing Regeneration spell can take effect), this has the potential of being more expensive than the primary ability…

 

So Healing (Extra Time) + Side Effect(empathic) & Healing (Trigger, Only Damage Incurred While Healing) + Side Effect (empathic)?

 

Any other suggestions?

[Christopher]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Generally a power only takes effect after all the time has passed. There is no "partial" result. Regeneration, UOO is not allowed.

So even if the target is attacked, this won't affect the healer directly - after all his healing has not affected the target at all, so he does not takes the side effect. Whatever the heal effectively heals (after all time has passed and the maximum effect/real effect has been calculated), that is what the healer takes as damage.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Empathic healing, i.e. the healer taking over the damage from his subject, seems like a classic example for Side Effect. So far, so good. But what if during the healing, any attack on the subject is instantly and totally transfered to the healer?

 

There's some potential for abuse, but generally it's nothing the healer really wants, as combined with the damage he already has taken over, it's likely to drop him. Still, it also has some beneficial effects for the subject, so it doesn't sound like (just) another Side Effect. Probably a secondary Healing + Side Effect? Considering that the first Healing is more likely to involve Extra Time, so that the healer isn't overwhelmed (and that an existing Regeneration spell can take effect), this has the potential of being more expensive than the primary ability…

 

So Healing (Extra Time) + Side Effect(empathic) & Healing (Trigger, Only Damage Incurred While Healing) + Side Effect (empathic)?

 

Any other suggestions?

Combined with Regeneration on the healer, this is potentially abusive.

[mhd]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Combined with Regeneration on the healer' date=' this is potentially abusive.[/quote']

 

Care to elaborate? I agree that having it just as a Side Effect is prone to be abused, but even by buying it as a separate Healing Power?

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Care to elaborate? I agree that having it just as a Side Effect is prone to be abused' date=' but even by buying it as a separate Healing Power?[/quote']

Step 1: Healing buys Regeneration and "Empathic Healing".

Step 2: All the other characters effectively get Regeneration (Only One Active At A Time/Out Of Combat)

[mhd]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

So your problem is with the basic Empathic Healing? I don't really see the problem. Sure, you get a cheaper healing due to the Side Effect, but pay for that with the additional time it takes the healer to regenerate the transferred injuries as well as a capacity limit. Never mind that the Re-Use Duration is still in there.

 

And silly me, instead of two Healing versions it's probably a lot simpler to build it with Healing(SE: empathic) + Resistant Defense (UOO, SE: empathic).

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

I'd say Healing with no side effects is more "abusive" than Empathic Healing + Regen.

 

Here's how you might set up a "damage link" that transfers damage from one player to another:

Damage Link: Healing Simplified Healing 6d6, Trigger (Target takes damage, Trigger requires a Full Phase to reset; +1/4), Usable By Other (+1/4) (90 Active Points); Caster takes damage equal to amount healed (-1)

 

Is that correct or do we have to add ranged to that too?

[Erkenfresh]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Also "Decreased Re-Use Duration" would help it work more than just once a day. Add to flavor.

[Christopher]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

There's some potential for abuse' date=' but generally it's nothing the healer really wants, as combined with the damage he already has taken over, it's likely to drop him. Still, it also has some beneficial effects for the subject, so it doesn't sound like (just) another Side Effect. Probably a secondary Healing + Side Effect? Considering that the first Healing is more likely to involve Extra Time, so that the healer isn't overwhelmed (and that an existing Regeneration spell can take effect), this has the potential of being more expensive than the primary ability…[/quote']

I think what you actually is somethign aroudn this D&D Paladin Spell that let's one take damage for the other, except this one only works during the healing process.

This is propably best build as:

Resistant Protection, Useable on Others (one at a time), Side Effect (Provider takes prevented damage hismelf), Linked with Healing.

[mhd]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Yeah, the "Shield Other" thing would probably be the intentional version of this. Don't get me wrong, nobody but martyrs would want anything like this, it's more a campaign-specific side effect of healing, making it harder for battlefield duty. Building it as a linked power makes the basic Healing more expensive, but I can live with that

 

And yes, Res. Protection seems to be the way to go, probably as much PD/ED as the healer has BODY.

[Markdoc]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

Just a couple of comments here:

 

In the last campaign, I allowed "Regeneration usable on others" for healing, with the side effect that the healer themselves took the same amount of BOD damage. It is by far the simplest way to build empathic healing and as you note, the side effect keeps it from getting out of hand. I also allowed "healing trance" where the healer could go into a deep trance (DCV0) and accelerate their own healing (regeneration, again, but with a 5 hour interval) allowing them to regenerate all their BOD in a half day or so. Yeah, it's not recommended in the rules. Whatever. You're the GM, it's your call. FWIW, in 5 years of regular play, this combo was not a problem - and it gave us exactly what I wanted from healing. In Amazon speak "Would order again"

 

But then, I wanted the party to be fully able to heal up in 3-4 days after an intense encounter, without allowing healing to be freely on tap during combat. I didn't want long down time because of injury, but I wanted fast, brutal possibly lethal combat. The empathic healing route, plus self-healing for the healer, does that, because in combat, the healer can only soak up so much damage and then they are out of it for at least some hours. If that's not what you want, then regeneration is not a good option.

 

As for the side effect, the "takes damage inflicted during the healing period" is unlikely to occur frequently, but could be serious when it does: I'd just go with a single side effect, but increase the limitation one step to reflect that the empathic healer will always take some damage and could - potentially - take a lethal hit.

 

cheers, Mark

[Christopher]

Re: Empathic Healing plus Damage Link

 

In the last campaign' date=' I allowed "Regeneration usable on others" for healing, with the side effect that the healer themselves took the same amount of BOD damage. It is by far the simplest way to build empathic healing and as you note, the side effect keeps it from getting out of hand. I also allowed "healing trance" where the healer could go into a deep trance (DCV0) and accelerate their own healing (regeneration, again, but with a 5 hour interval) allowing them to regenerate all their BOD in a half day or so. Yeah, it's not recommended in the rules. Whatever. You're the GM, it's your call. FWIW, in 5 years of regular play, this combo was not a problem - and it gave us exactly what I wanted from healing. In Amazon speak "[i']Would order again[/i]"

 

But then, I wanted the party to be fully able to heal up in 3-4 days after an intense encounter, without allowing healing to be freely on tap during combat. I didn't want long down time because of injury, but I wanted fast, brutal possibly lethal combat. The empathic healing route, plus self-healing for the healer, does that, because in combat, the healer can only soak up so much damage and then they are out of it for at least some hours. If that's not what you want, then regeneration is not a good option.

Power (or power options) that need long times to activate (and are unpractically to sustain) are usually a lot less problematic.

 

For example, Witchcraft in Champions 6E has a VPP that includes powers like Danger Sense, Characteristics and even Multiform. But it is small (30/30, so biggest Multiform is 150) and has "Only Magic" and "Only with Access to Spellbooks" (only at Base) Limitations.