Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

[psyber624]

Hey guys, Im new to the forums and have only just recently gotten back into HERO gaming system (played back in 1990 while in college, but its been a while). I have fallen in love with a character concept I came up with, but I'm afraid it may turn out to be abusive to the system (he operates at spd 10 and i do remember how powerful speed is in the game.)

 

Without going into too much detail (and boring you all) the concept is that he had the whole Bruce Banner experience while trying to destroy a device he had unknowingly created for VIPER (who was using the company he worked for, Astrodyn, as a front for their R&D division... and by the way, if i get any Champions lore wrong here plz forgive me, its been 20 years since ive played and I dont have all the sourcebooks again yet.) The device was working on a way to manipulate time, and as a result of the explosion he has aborbed a high amount of "Chronotons" or time particles. This has resulted in him actually LIVING at twice the speed of normal humans, ie to him everyone else seems to be moving at 1/2 speed, while to them he appears to move at double speed. ) Other than his high speed and dex he only has a couple of powers. One is a Chronoton Absorption which reflects the fact that he is still absorbing chronotons. He can use this to Drain the speed of target by 1 or 2 points, after that their "Chronoton" levels are too low for him to drain them further. He can also only drain so many Chronotons before he is "full" and must wait for his levels to dissipate normally. Note that this is NOT an aid to his speed (he already has so many chronotons that the paltry amount he is draining has no apparent effect on him). Effectively his End reserve (as a special effect) works in "reverse", draining chronotons fills the "reserve" which then "dissipate" at a reduced rate.

Other than that he has a plasma pistol which (given the standard defenses for a Superheroic campaign) will always do a small amount of damage, but will rarely do major damage. At short ranges he can power up to the blast to actually start cutting away at body armor making it less effective, but this has a small chance to cause the pistol to overheat, shutting it down entirely for a while (at least for a combat/scene)

 

The basic idea i wanted to go with here was sort of a "debuffer" character. On his own he doesnt really do that much damage (compared to other 400 pt characters). The end reserve limits him to 4 uses of his drain per combat, and the low damage (but penetrating) pistol allows him to do some damage every phase without making his spd 10 abusive (I hope.).

 

Here is the build i have for him so far:

 

Cost Power Level Notes

5.......Str 15

30.....Dex 25 Unified with Speed (-0 Limitation)

10.....Con 20

20.....Int 30

5.......Ego 15

5.......Pre 15

25.....OCV 8

25.....DCV 8

0......OMCV 3

0......DMCV 3

80.....Spd 10 Cannot Voluntarily Reduce (-0 Limitation)

8.......PD 10

8.......ED 10

2.......Rec 6

4.......End 40

5.......Body 15

5.......Stun 30

14......Run 26m

0........Swim 4m

0........Leap 4m

251 Total Characteristics

 

Speed Skills:

3 Acrobatics.............................................. 3 Scientist Skill Enhancer

3 Breakfall

3 Fast Draw ...............................................Perks:

 

Int Skills: .................................................. 2 Access: Astrodyn Inc.

3 C. Program ............................................. 1 Computer Link: Astrodyn Inc.

1 Fam: Cryptography .................................. 4 Contact: Dean of Physics at MIT 11-

3 Deduction(Sci only) .......................................Access to major Inst., Good Relationship

3 Electronics ............................................. 6 Contact: Geeknet Usegroup 8-

3 Inventor ..................................................... Useful Skills, Organization

3 KS: MIT (or Other) ...................................1 Favor: Gen. William Schuster, DOD

3 KS: Science Culture ..................................1 Membership: MIT Alumni

3 KS: "Nerd" Culture ....................................2 Security Clearance (from doing research for DOD)

2 KS: Astrodyn Inc. ................................... 2 Money: Well Off

2 Language: Chinese .................................. 2 Positive Reputation: Famous Scientist (Scientific

2 Language: Japanese Community, 14-)

1 Language: Indian

3 PS: Research Scientist .............................Talents:

2 SS: Temporal Physics ...............................18 Combat Luck (9 rPD/9 rED) (Ability to dodge attacks

2 SS: Nuclear Physics ..........................................Since they are percieved as "1/2 speed")

2 SS: Subatomic Physics ..............................2 Eidetic Memory(-1 Reading Material Only)

2 SS: Physics .............................................3 Lightning Calculator

1 Fam: Tactics .......................................... 4 Speed Reading

101 Total Skills/Perks

 

Powers:

17 .............. Chronoton Absorbtion Drain Spd, 5d6, End comes from Reserve and Base End

........................(-1: One Use At A Time, -1/2: Double End - reserve and base end, -1/2 No Range)

.........................50 AP 5 End

 

25 ............... Plasma Pistol ..................Blast, 4d6, vs ED, +1/2: Penetrating, +1/2: 0 End

................................................................-1: OAF

................................................................40 AP 0 End

........................................................Drain "Resistant Protection costing 0 End (ie Armor)", 1d6, +1/2: 0 End

................................................................-1: OAF, -1/2 Linked (No bonus range), -1/2 Required Roll 13-, Burnout (affects blast as well)/every use of Drain

.................................................................15AP 0 End

 

6 Chronoton Reserve Endurance Reserve, 20 End, 5 Rec every 5 mins (-2)

 

48 Total Powers

 

251 Characteristics

101 Skills/Perks

48 Powers

400 Total Cost

 

Complications:

10 Distictive Features: Doublespeed on all movements and speech, Concealable, Noticed

20 Hunted: VIPER (or other) More Pow, NCI, Frequently, Enslave/Kill

10 Hatred: VIPER, for using inventions as weapons, Uncommon, Strong (Will not run from fight with VIPER, even if loosing)

15 Personality Trait: Egotistical (Not willing to listen to good advice, thinks he "knows better", Very Common, Moderate)

20 Vulnerability to Poisons and other Damage over time or constant type effects (he literally "takes the damage twice as often", Common, x2 Damage

0 Physical Complication: Aging at an ever increasing rate (increasing exponentially, not aware of it yet)

75 Total Complications

 

 

Sorry about the formatting issues, copying from excel never works well for forums (sigh).

 

I get that any GM would have final say on a character like this, what im looking for is input from people who are actually playing this game (especially gm's) as to whether or not this character feels abusive to you, and if there is any recommendations on how to fix it if you do think its abusive.

[Christopher]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Hello and Welcome back.

 

I see no problems with the background story.

 

SPD:

By default everyone can reduce thier SPD to 1. But for any negavite effect (ENdurance Cost, Drowning) the minmum is 2 - even if you actual top SPD is 1, you still count as 2 for those.

So I would take away that limitation and maybe give him a physical complication instead (counts as SPD 4 for negative effects).

 

Higher Reaction time usually also means increased OCV/DCV, but you seem to have given him enough.

 

The overall SPD is problematically high. Most Speedster builts have reaction times a lot higher than "twice the human" and are built with less SPD

 

Regarding SPD/CV I think he is simply a speedster with rather low movement powers.

 

Rec:

I am not certain you wrote that up right. Did he sold it back (-6) or do you bough more Rec for 6?

I think it should be rather high - after all, he has twice the time to catch a break/his metabolism keeps up with his reaction time.

 

Defenses:

I think they should be higher. Remeber that every force affecting him is only half as "fast". So he only feels half the impact force of average fist. Energy needs longer to affect his body, etc., ...

Damage Negation might be worth a look. It works well for such effects, but could be a hassle for the GM.

 

Plasma Pistol:

By base rules every focus that offers protecting from an attack, is subject to damage from that attack. But that might not be enough or the GM might rule to ignore it (for sake of speeding the game up).

 

Cronoton Absoprtion Reserve:

As I read it this one simualtes that he can only use his powers "so often in a short time". Using End reserve for that is not a good choice. END-Reserve is a cheaper version of Reduced Endurance or a "more detailed" Version of Fuel Charges Advantage. Using it as limitation usually ends up costing more.

 

Vulnerability:

Would leave that out. Right now he take twice the damage. When instead he should take the same damage in half the time. Wich could also mean that he is not in as much danger if he is somehow temporarily warded against the attack (only half the time for a foe to take his protection away).

On the other hand positive effects (like aids) and drains would also fade at twice the speed.

It could easily end up as "helps as often as it hinders".

[psyber624]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Thanks for the input.

 

Recovery is 6, which cost me 2 points (base points 4 + 1 point each), I think the problem there is that i wrote this up different than most writeups (because of the way i have it done in excel for copying, sorry about that.)

 

The defenses were actually an issue for me, I "LOVE" the way combat luck states the defenses work, its perfect for the character concept, but taking 3 levels of that already seemed abusive to me. (they are cheaper than normal resistant PD). I was already thinking i was going to have to juggle some points out of that and somewhere else to boost my defenses higher.

 

RE: The plasma pistol..... in a superheroic campaign i didnt think "damage" would reduce the effect of armor. I thought that was something for heroic campaigns. Ill look it up.

 

On the absorption power using the end reserve, the power is defined as using regular end as well, so its not simulating an 0 End, That could make the Double End limiter worth 0, i can see that, but i dont see another way of doing the effect i want (limiting it to 4 uses per combat) unless i maybe did some kind of weird special effect for recoverable charges (which in itself would be worth the -1/2 xp of the double end, and grant the 0 end modifier anyway, so my construct actually costs 6 MORE CP than that one would.) Note that the endurance reserve is built to give me exactly 4 uses of the power (20 end in the pool, 5 end per drain) and returns slowly (5 end per 5 mins, or 20 mins to fill back up)

 

Not trying to get contrary, just making sure im understanding and using everything correctly.

 

And the vulnerability was meant to simulate effects that occured every time he took a phase ... but i just reread and figured out that constant powers dont affect me based on my speed, but on the casters speed, so not sure if it works like i thought it did so I will have to give that one some more thought.

 

Again, thanks for your inputs

[Christopher]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

The defenses were actually an issue for me' date=' I "LOVE" the way combat luck states the defenses work, its perfect for the character concept, but taking 3 levels of that already seemed abusive to me. (they are cheaper than normal resistant PD). I was already thinking i was going to have to juggle some points out of that and somewhere else to boost my defenses higher. [/quote']

Didn't even noticed it. On reason it is common to write the characteristic and next to it the "top value" when certain Powers are adding to it. That way we are reminded to look up where this +9 Resistant Defenses come from.

 

RE: The plasma pistol..... in a superheroic campaign i didnt think "damage" would reduce the effect of armor. I thought that was something for heroic campaigns. Ill look it up.

It's a general rule for foci. Of course most armors are too tough to take body from a Normal Damage Attack.

I also just now noticed that this attack is only 6 DC? That is way to low and won't do more tha tickle most mooks. Better cut out the Drain and bump it up to around 10-12 DC (12 DC is the usual 400 point super average DC; that would be 8d6, Penentrating, 0 END).

 

On the absorption power using the end reserve' date=' the power is defined as using regular end as well, so its not simulating an 0 End, That could make the Double End limiter worth 0, i can see that, but i dont see another way of doing the effect i want (limiting it to 4 uses per combat) unless i maybe did some kind of weird special effect for recoverable charges (which in itself would be worth the -1/2 xp of the double end, and grant the 0 end modifier anyway, so my construct actually costs 6 MORE CP than that one would.) Note that the endurance reserve is built to give me exactly 4 uses of the power (20 end in the pool, 5 end per drain) and returns slowly (5 end per 5 mins, or 20 mins to fill back up)[/quote']

What I meant is: The desing goal of Endurance Reserve seems to be to have been a cheaper/limited version of 0 END + Persistent. Using it to limit the use of a power will simply end up costing more points that jsut straight up putting a limitation on the power.

 

Simple replacement: Not more than 4 times every X Minutes on the Absorption. Best ask In a seperate thread on the Hero System Discussion about the Value the people around here would give it.

But propably just applying 2 or 3 times Endurance cost would have same effect on reuseablity. Little Chance to blaze away on 10 or 15 END per shoot (that also has to hit). When you also do other stuff in the rest of your phases.

 

 

And the vulnerability was meant to simulate effects that occured every time he took a phase ... but i just reread and figured out that constant powers dont affect me based on my speed, but on the casters speed, so not sure if it works like i thought it did so I will have to give that one some more thought.

 

Again, thanks for your inputs

In that regard the constant powers are a little "buggy" in HERO. The same gas grenade thrown by a SPD 6 superhero works fast/lasts shorter then when thrown by a 3 SPD mook.

Best not to care about it and hope Steve Long finds a solution in the next version of the game.

[Tasha]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Hey guys, Im new to the forums and have only just recently gotten back into HERO gaming system (played back in 1990 while in college, but its been a while). I have fallen in love with a character concept I came up with, but I'm afraid it may turn out to be abusive to the system (he operates at spd 10 and i do remember how powerful speed is in the game.)

 

Without going into too much detail (and boring you all) the concept is that he had the whole Bruce Banner experience while trying to destroy a device he had unknowingly created for VIPER (who was using the company he worked for, Astrodyn, as a front for their R&D division... and by the way, if i get any Champions lore wrong here plz forgive me, its been 20 years since ive played and I dont have all the sourcebooks again yet.) The device was working on a way to manipulate time, and as a result of the explosion he has absorbed a high amount of "Chronotons" or time particles. This has resulted in him actually LIVING at twice the speed of normal humans, ie to him everyone else seems to be moving at 1/2 speed, while to them he appears to move at double speed. ) Other than his high speed and dex he only has a couple of powers. One is a Chronoton Absorption which reflects the fact that he is still absorbing chronotons. He can use this to Drain the speed of target by 1 or 2 points, after that their "Chronoton" levels are too low for him to drain them further. He can also only drain so many Chronotons before he is "full" and must wait for his levels to dissipate normally. Note that this is NOT an aid to his speed (he already has so many chronotons that the paltry amount he is draining has no apparent effect on him). Effectively his End reserve (as a special effect) works in "reverse", draining chronotons fills the "reserve" which then "dissipate" at a reduced rate.

Other than that he has a plasma pistol which (given the standard defenses for a Superheroic campaign) will always do a small amount of damage, but will rarely do major damage. At short ranges he can power up to the blast to actually start cutting away at body armor making it less effective, but this has a small chance to cause the pistol to overheat, shutting it down entirely for a while (at least for a combat/scene)

 

The basic idea i wanted to go with here was sort of a "debuffer" character. On his own he doesnt really do that much damage (compared to other 400 pt characters). The end reserve limits him to 4 uses of his drain per combat, and the low damage (but penetrating) pistol allows him to do some damage every phase without making his spd 10 abusive (I hope.).

 

Here is the build i have for him so far:

 

Cost Power Level Notes

5.......Str 15

30.....Dex 25 Unified with Speed (-0 Limitation)

10.....Con 20

20.....Int 30

5.......Ego 15

5.......Pre 15

25.....OCV 8

25.....DCV 8

0......OMCV 3

0......DMCV 3

80.....Spd 10 Cannot Voluntarily Reduce (-0 Limitation)

8.......PD 10

8.......ED 10

2.......Rec 6

4.......End 40

5.......Body 15

5.......Stun 30

14......Run 26m

0........Swim 4m

0........Leap 4m

251 Total Characteristics

 

Speed Skills:

3 Acrobatics.............................................. 3 Scientist Skill Enhancer

3 Breakfall

3 Fast Draw ...............................................Perks:

 

Int Skills: .................................................. 2 Access: Astrodyn Inc.

3 C. Program ............................................. 1 Computer Link: Astrodyn Inc.

1 Fam: Cryptography .................................. 4 Contact: Dean of Physics at MIT 11-

3 Deduction(Sci only) .......................................Access to major Inst., Good Relationship

3 Electronics ............................................. 6 Contact: Geeknet Usegroup 8-

3 Inventor ..................................................... Useful Skills, Organization

3 KS: MIT (or Other) ...................................1 Favor: Gen. William Schuster, DOD

3 KS: Science Culture ..................................1 Membership: MIT Alumni

3 KS: "Nerd" Culture ....................................2 Security Clearance (from doing research for DOD)

2 KS: Astrodyn Inc. ................................... 2 Money: Well Off

2 Language: Chinese .................................. 2 Positive Reputation: Famous Scientist (Scientific

2 Language: Japanese Community, 14-)

1 Language: Indian

3 PS: Research Scientist .............................Talents:

2 SS: Temporal Physics ...............................18 Combat Luck (9 rPD/9 rED) (Ability to dodge attacks

2 SS: Nuclear Physics ..........................................Since they are percieved as "1/2 speed")

2 SS: Subatomic Physics ..............................2 Eidetic Memory(-1 Reading Material Only)

2 SS: Physics .............................................3 Lightning Calculator

1 Fam: Tactics .......................................... 4 Speed Reading

101 Total Skills/Perks

 

Powers:

17 .............. Chronoton Absorbtion Drain Spd, 5d6, End comes from Reserve and Base End

........................(-1: One Use At A Time, -1/2: Double End - reserve and base end, -1/2 No Range)

.........................50 AP 5 End

 

25 ............... Plasma Pistol ..................Blast, 4d6, vs ED, +1/2: Penetrating, +1/2: 0 End

................................................................-1: OAF

................................................................40 AP 0 End

........................................................Drain "Resistant Protection costing 0 End (ie Armor)", 1d6, +1/2: 0 End

................................................................-1: OAF, -1/2 Linked (No bonus range), -1/2 Required Roll 13-, Burnout (affects blast as well)/every use of Drain

.................................................................15AP 0 End

 

6 Chronoton Reserve Endurance Reserve, 20 End, 5 Rec every 5 mins (-2)

 

48 Total Powers

 

251 Characteristics

101 Skills/Perks

48 Powers

400 Total Cost

 

Complications:

10 Distictive Features: Doublespeed on all movements and speech, Concealable, Noticed

20 Hunted: VIPER (or other) More Pow, NCI, Frequently, Enslave/Kill

10 Hatred: VIPER, for using inventions as weapons, Uncommon, Strong (Will not run from fight with VIPER, even if loosing)

15 Personality Trait: Egotistical (Not willing to listen to good advice, thinks he "knows better", Very Common, Moderate)

20 Vulnerability to Poisons and other Damage over time or constant type effects (he literally "takes the damage twice as often", Common, x2 Damage

0 Physical Complication: Aging at an ever increasing rate (increasing exponentially, not aware of it yet)

75 Total Complications

 

 

Sorry about the formatting issues, copying from excel never works well for forums (sigh).

 

I get that any GM would have final say on a character like this, what im looking for is input from people who are actually playing this game (especially gm's) as to whether or not this character feels abusive to you, and if there is any recommendations on how to fix it if you do think its abusive.

 

As a GM, I would just say NO. Speed Drainers are really annoying. This is a character built around a single niche power that will become very boring to play after a couple of sessions. In my experience if you build a character without any straight up damage powers, you will quickly find that your character becomes useless. For your character 15 Power defense will pretty much hose what the character does.

 

On top of that you have a 10 speed. While the character is basically worthless beyond a slight annoyance. The character can't even run their powers for a full turn. You could do a bunch of defensive actions and fire off the pop gun, but I don't see the point. On top of that 10 speed will become kind of annoying to the other Players with speed 5 and 6 characters. You will be taking twice the actions than they do. Also such high speed can slow the combat down esp if you are slow actually deciding what to do with your phases.

 

Your OCV is 8 with no skill levels. So you will find many Villains that you will be unable to hit.

 

I really commend you for creating a character that actually has a decent set of background/Non combat skills.

 

19 defenses are on the low side esp with a DCV that will be getting hit more often than not. Assuming DC12 avg attacks, the character takes 22 each phase which will stun the character (which will chew up to half their phases due to recovering from being stunned), 2 hits will KO the Character. You could recover on one of your extra phases, but a smart Villain will figure you out and delay till you start to take a recovery and hit the character.

 

Sorry, I would just say NO to this character. It would cause too many headaches.

[psyber624]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Thanks tasha. I am already working on a redesign of this character taking in your guys commentary. Focusing more on the "double time" than on high speed. Most of his powers were weakened because i was worried about 10 spd being abusive if I took a standard 12 DC attack (thats why it was penetrating, i could usually do 1-2 points of damage per phase, even against high defenses if they werent impenetrable, but I couldnt run around KOing everyone with my 10 attacks per turn).

 

And yeah, I have never suffered from "analysis paralysis" (what we used to call not knowing what to do when your turn comes up in a game.) Im always the one bugging others to hurry up

 

Also, i had it in my mind for some reason that most fights would be lasting alot of turns, from some of the reading Ive been doing on the boards it looks like 2-3 turns is more likely....

 

(and yeah, i totally forgot about power defense..... oops)

 

So anyways, thanks for all the input

[hancock.tom]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Speed Drain causes a big book keeping headache for your GM. Yours might not care but many would. GM shows up with a cheat sheet on the villains you are going to be fighting including a chart with every character and villain's speed plotted out for quick reference. Then you speed drain a couple of them and the cheat sheet must be reworked mid combat or just scrapped.

 

Do you have access to the ultimate speedster book or the speedster powers chapter of Champions Powers 6th? Both probably have good ideas you could use to make this character more interesting and fun for you, and less of a headache for your GM and the other players. I think there were some time manipulation powers in CP6 too.

 

Build the speed drain as some kind of whacky entangle, it will be less of a headache for the GM and more fun. You could turn the speed down a bit and buy desolid, cannot move through solid objects instead. I would also buy some movement powers better than just walking more often than others in a turn. Teleport must pass through intervening space maybe?

[psyber624]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Yeah, after some reflection I think Tasha is right, this is more of a concept character than an actual playable character in the game. If I decide to actually go with something like this it would take a total redesign to become playable. I love creating new and interesting character designs, and sometimes I forget the fact that if I plan to USE those designs in a game they also need a certain amount of playability. One of the flaws of genius i guess

 

On a related note, what tends to be an avg OCV/DCV for this level of hero in your games? (Total, including skills and such). One of the ONLY complaints I have always had about the HERO system is the interplay between OCV/DCV in a 3d6 system, a couple of points one way or they other and you can go from never hitting to never missing, which can make OCV/DCV or related skills REALLY cost effective if you know what the average level of CV is in the games (esp as they do not increase in cost or have built in maximums)

[Christopher]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Yeah' date=' after some reflection I think Tasha is right, this is more of a concept character than an actual playable character in the game. If I decide to actually go with something like this it would take a total redesign to become playable. I love creating new and interesting character designs, and sometimes I forget the fact that if I plan to USE those designs in a game they also need a certain amount of playability. One of the flaws of genius i guess [/quote']

Like is said above:

Just built him as Speedster without any high movement/velocity based abilities.

 

On a related note' date=' what tends to be an avg OCV/DCV for this level of hero in your games? (Total, including skills and such). One of the ONLY complaints I have always had about the HERO system is the interplay between OCV/DCV in a 3d6 system, a couple of points one way or they other and you can go from never hitting to never missing, which can make OCV/DCV or related skills REALLY cost effective if you know what the average level of CV is in the games (esp as they do not increase in cost or have built in maximums)[/quote']

Until someone uses a AoE attack. Then 20 DCV won't save you...

[psyber624]

Re: Character Analysis Requested: Character Name: Double-Time

 

Yeah, building him as a Speedster would be the way to go.... if i knew what a Speedster looked like At the present I only have the Two 6ed books, and the free supplement they came with... While i intend to get more books in the future one of my biggest problems so far getting back into this is that I have all of 4 official character designs to use as references (although I'm beginning to get a feel for several posters here who may know what they are doing so some of their posted characters will likely be used as yardsticks till I can get more)