The Reaper

[The Reaper]

Hello everyone,

 

I am starting to play in a 5th edition Champions game and I've built a 250 point character named The Reaper who is basically a Batman-like superhero. Please review my build and any comments or corrections are welcome!

 

The Reaper

“Night time mystery man vigilante – with many gadgets and powers!”

AKA Robert Morgan Wells

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

20 DEX 30

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

18 INT 18

15 EGO 5

15 PRE 5

16 COM 3

8 PD 4 (16 total PD with costume, 8 is r)

8 ED 4 (16 total ED with costume, 8 is r)

5 SPD 20

10 REC 4

40 END 0

33 STUN 1

Total Characteristics Cost: 128 Points

 

 

POWERS AND SKILLS:

10 Glider Cape: 20” OIF (-1/2), Costs END (-1/2), 20 active points, END 1.

16 Costume: Adds 8rPD/8rED, OIF (-1/2), 24 active points

6 Cling Boots: OIF (-1/2), costs END (-1/2), 12 active points, END 1.

3 IR Vision: OIF (-1/2), 5 active points.

3 Flash Defense for Sight OIF (-1/2), 5 active points.

6 Gas Mask: Self-Contained Breathing, OIF (-1/2), 1 charge/1 hour, 10 active points.

 

40 Utility Harness: Multipower OIF (-1/2), 60 active points

2u Energy Scythe: +12d6 to STR attack, attacks ED not PD, HTH only (-1/2), Requires Two Hands (-1/4), OIF (-1/2), 60 active points

2u Smoke Grenade: Darkness to Sight, AE 5”, Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges w/1 turn duration (-1/4), OAF (-1).

2u Flash Grenade: Flash to Sight, AE 6” r (+1), Range based on STR (1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

2u Stun Boomerang: 12d6, STUN only, Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

2u Edged Boomerang: 8d6, AP (+1/2), Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

2u Electric Shock Pellet: 6d6, NND [Force Field] (+1), Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

2u Sleep Gas Pellet: 6d6 NND [Contained Breathing] (+1), Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

2u Bolo: Entangle 6d6, DEF 6, Range based on STR (-1/4), 6 charges (-3/4), OAF (-1)

1u Radio: ES Radio Perception/Transmit, OAF (-1)

1u Flashlight: Image 1 hex only, Only to create Sight (-1), No END (+1/2), OAF (-1)

1u Swingline: 20” No END (+1/2), OAF (-1)

1u Upline: 30” Upward movement only (-1), No END (+1/2), OAF (-1)

 

 

5 Wealthy (Millionaire)

5 Offensive Strike

4 Martial Disarm

4 Martial Block

0 Acting

0 Climbing

0 Concealment

0 Conversation

0 Deduction

0 Paramedics

0 Persuasion

0 Shadowing

0 Stealth

0 Transport

 

 

Total Powers and Skills Cost: 122 Points

 

Disadvantages: 100 Points

 

15 DPNC: Uncle Frank, Incompetent, Occasional, knows identity

5 Rivalry: Death Angel, another vigilante superhero

10 Hunted: Creeper, supervillain (As Powerful)

20 PsyL: Honorable (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Obssessed with fighting crime (Common/Strong)

20 Normal Human Maxima (Very Common/Strong)

10 SocL: Secret Identity

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Reaper

 

60 Active Points seems a bit high for what appears to be a 250 point character. I would consider lowering the Multipower a bit and working in Martial Arts if at all possible.

 

Here's how I've done a starting Batman on 350 and another Batman starting version on 250.

 

HM

[psyber624]

Re: The Reaper

 

Also, 2 NND's is REALLY frowned upon, 1 should be the limit, or else they are too powerful.

 

On a personal note that Multipower in general just seems like its way to strong. It feels a bit munchkiny to me to be honest, but that's strictly an opinion and I have no idea what kind of campaign your running this in (if any). That is further exacerbated by the fact that you really didnt take any skills. To each his own of course, but I wouldn't let him in a campaign.

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

Thanks for the comments so far. One of the things I am trying to get a sense of is what is too powerful and what is not powerful enough. This is my third draft in building this character, and somewhat of a exercise to see how powerful and tough I could make a 250 point Batman-like superhero. I think the game I am in will be combat heavy, but I'm not sure -- we're just getting started.

 

Is this build legal?

[assault]

Re: The Reaper

 

I can't see anything illegal, but that's just at a glance.

 

You could consider shaving a point off his EGO. That would leave him with the same mental CV and Ego roll, and save you two points.

 

The Multipower is quite strong, as others have pointed out. The first slot is particularly powerful. The character himself would be pretty much one-shotted by it!

 

He really needs some skills. 8- is about a 25% chance of success, IIRC.

 

I'd tone down the MP, and spend the saved points on skills.

[JmOz]

Re: The Reaper

 

Ok, umm, 20d6 Attack is insane in a game that is much more powerful, (4 STR, +12 HA, +4 Offensive Strike)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Reaper

 

I think the biggest sticking point is:

40 Utility Harness: Multipower OIF (-1/2), 60 active points

2u Energy Scythe: +12d6 to STR attack, attacks ED not PD, HTH only (-1/2), Requires Two Hands (-1/4), OIF (-1/2), 60 active points

 

With his STR included that gives him a 16d6 attack which is still considered at least above average in 350 point 5e and 400 point 6e.

In a 250 point 5e game it should be considered a near ultimate attack.

 

As a counter example my starting 250 point 5e Superman can only match it with his Kryptonian VPP (by making a straight 10d6 HA slot which combines with 30 base STR to = 16d6).

 

Since the Energy Scythe doesn't have charges I would highly encourage adding Advantages like Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) Advantage to the build which then reduces to top damage. You could also say the special effect is a telescoping weapon and buy 1-2" of Stretching in a Combination Power (like a normal staff is constructed*). Go for some neat effects instead of just raw power.

 

From my Black Canary homage character:

Bo (Staff): (Total: 42 Active Cost, 13 Real Cost) Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), STR Minimum 6-14 (8 STR) (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 8) plus +1 with HTH Combat (OCV Only) (5 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2) plus Stretching 1", Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points); OAF (-1), Always Direct (-1/4), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4) (Real Cost: 3)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Reaper

 

Ok' date=' umm, 20d6 Attack is insane in a game that is much more powerful, (4 STR, +12 HA, +4 Offensive Strike)[/quote']

 

Offensive Strike is typically defined as a Kick and he didn't purchase a Weapon Element for the Martial Arts. But yeah....

[assault]

Re: The Reaper

 

As JmOz noted, if he adds Offensive Strike to the Scythe attack, he can reach 20d6!

 

That's a bit over the top.

 

On the other hand, he would only have 5 OCV when using it, so he would be missing a lot if he tried to use it against a moving opponent.

 

It's a textbook example of an unbalanced attack.

 

I usually use Offensive Strike to model the more aggressive Boxing strikes, rather than kicks. Of course, that's because I design a lot of Golden Age characters that tend not to use Asian martial arts other than Judo.

[psyber624]

Re: The Reaper

 

There is "legal" in HERO, but all the books will tell you over and over again, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. There is a lot of flexibility built into the Hero system that will let you do pretty much anything you want, but that puts the responsibility on the Players and the GM to make sure the game stays balanced and playable. As it stands, unless everyone in your campaign is building along these lines your character is way too powerful. And realize this, your character could not come close to withstanding his own damage output, so if all characters are built like this it all comes down to who lands the first blow. You have 16 points of PD/ED. Which means that you start taking damage around 5d6 of effect. For a 250 point campaign, that should be about right, but your attacks should probably be limited to about the 8d6 range, maybe 10d6 for an "ultimate" attack concept (really limited, but if you pull it off it works great). You are STARTING at 12d6 on your attacks, and they just keep going up, (adding strength, multiple NND's so there really is no defense against your guy), and to top it off you have pretty much every main kind of effect there is, you have darkness, entangle, melee, ranged, flash. And then lets look at less combat oriented stuff, you have 3 movement modes, swinging, clinging, and gliding, you have radio, self contained breathing, infrared vision, and that's just powers, that doesn't even look at your stats. All of this crammed into a character that only cost 250 points. There are 400 and 500 point characters that would struggle to get all of those abilities on one character, and you did it in 250. Yes, the RAW say that its "legal", but honestly? It's way too much. This guy could stand toe to toe with some of the 400 point characters being posted on here in terms of power... (of course he wont last long enough to use it, but I guess you have to be weak SOMEWHERE, right?)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Reaper

 

If you have Normal Characteristic Maxima, shouldn't a 5 SPD cost 30?

 

Base 3, 10pts to 4, (10x2) to 5?

 

Yeah, the Energy Scythe is ridiculous.

 

The MP is questionable on a few levels; I, personally, allow two NNDs provided they aren't mutually exclusive when it comes to the D ('defense is being in the air' and 'defense is being on the ground', or 'defense is forcefield' and 'defense is not having a forcefield' kind of things), but others might not. It looks like you combined the OIF and OAF limitation values on several of the slots (for a combined -1 1/2), which is a definite no-no ... I'd do OIF on the reserve then give each applicable slot the 'Restrainable' limitation to represent needing your hands free to use them.

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

Thanks for all of the observations and advice. I appreciate it!

 

When I first built this character, this is what is what I had been imagining: a Batman-like character on a JLA-like team geared up to fight supervillains far more powerful than he is. Sure, he can't take the hits, but he is on a team full of bigger and more overtly dangerous targets.

 

I suppose what I had in mind for the Energy Scythe was that it would not be used often, and very rarely at full power. I pictured a scenario where the Reaper is watching his friends go down to a Grond-like brute... the brick is down, the others are going down fast, and we've barely landed a punch. Then the Reaper breaks out his ultimate weapon to try to bring the big baddie down.

 

The Reaper is modeled after several Batman builds posted on this website, and probably most closely on a version Cassandra posted. I had been struggling with whether to use a VPP or Multipower. I preferred the VPP because I liked the concept of an adaptable gadgeteer who could kit-bash as needed. But I just didn't feel I could make it cost efficient with a 250 point character. When I saw Cassandra's Batman with the 60 active point Multipower Utility Belt, I thought -- that's brilliant, that's the way to go! I went in the more powerful offensive direction because I thought we'd be fighting more brick-like supervillains than thugs with handguns and switchblades. Then I wanted to add some kind of HTH weapon, and maxed it out, and the logical description for it seemed to be some kind of "energy scythe" -- since the character is the Reaper. And that's how it happened.

 

So, you see, it wasn't my intent to be a munchkin and ruin anyone's game. I am actually the player who suggested we start with 250 point characters rather than 350 point characters which seems to be the new default. I suggested that so that we'd be less powerful and also so that there would be less details in the game for us and the GM to keep track of. My gaming group is all learning the Hero system together. Our GM played Champions before -- twenty years ago or so -- but never ran a Champions game before now.

 

I am rebuilding the Reaper, in light of the comments on this thread. I'll repost my next draft when it is finished.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Reaper

 

I could potentially be talked into allowing the Scythe ... IF it were actually a last-ditch effort weapon. As it is, you have virtually no reason not to swing the thing every turn. If it was harder to use ... a very small number of charges, or a very high ENDurance cost, to where it was something you would only use in an emergency, then maybe. 20d6 is still probably too high, especially for a 250 point game (which I would expect to have about a 8-10 DC attack spread for starting characters).

[esampson]

Re: The Reaper

 

Rule 40: I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve.

[psyber624]

Re: The Reaper

 

Rule 40: I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable superweapon' date=' I will use it as early and as often as possible instead of keeping it in reserve.[/quote']

 

Love that list

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Reaper

 

This is one way I might change it...

 

30 Utility Harness: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

2u 1) Energy Scythe: Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (Up to 30 STR can be combined with Advantage. Currently 10d6 Affects Desolidifed w/20 STR; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1 OCV when used One Handed; -1/4)

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

If you have Normal Characteristic Maxima, shouldn't a 5 SPD cost 30?

 

Base 3, 10pts to 4, (10x2) to 5?

 

 

Hmm, I missed this -- thanks. But that's what Hero forums are for, right? Looks like I'll have SPD 4 and get back 10 points back to work with. Maybe I'll spend them on Skill Levels, for an overall +1.

 

Unless -- Can enhanced physical abilities be part of the costume/armor?

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

It looks like you combined the OIF and OAF limitation values on several of the slots (for a combined -1 1/2)' date=' which is a definite no-no ... I'd do OIF on the reserve then give each applicable slot the 'Restrainable' limitation to represent needing your hands free to use them.[/quote']

 

No, each ultra slot power either has OIF or OAF, not both combined for a -1 1/2. The utility harness is itself OIF, which affected the control cost. But the individual items underneath it were either OAF (can be knocked out of the hand or grabbed), or OIF (the scythe, which I imagined to be a sort of extension of his costume). But I do like the Restrainable limitation -- thanks for the idea.

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

This is one way I might change it...

 

30 Utility Harness: Multipower, 60-point reserve, (60 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2), Restrainable (-1/2)

2u 1) Energy Scythe: Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (Up to 30 STR can be combined with Advantage. Currently 10d6 Affects Desolidifed w/20 STR; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1 OCV when used One Handed; -1/4)

 

Why would you have it affect Desolidification? Just to have it work against a defense that most attack forms don't work against?

 

I do like the idea to make the Energy Scythe extendable, to an extra area away. Is that just a -1/2 Limitation?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: The Reaper

 

Why would you have it affect Desolidification? Just to have it work against a defense that most attack forms don't work against?

 

I do like the idea to make the Energy Scythe extendable, to an extra area away. Is that just a -1/2 Limitation?

 

I was just using an example +1/2 Combat Advantage. There are many different combos you could use. Affects Desol is probably a little easier to get past GM scrutiny than say AP, Penetrating or x1 1/2KB

 

The extra reach requires a combination power build using Stretching.

 

Hero Designer makes all of this much much easier to figure out.

[assault]

Re: The Reaper

 

Looks like I'll have SPD 4 and get back 10 points back to work with.

 

I strongly suggest that you don't do this.

 

Your character is already completely useless outside of combat. This would make him useless in combat too.

 

Drop the NCM disadvantage. It's poison for building useful characters. Replace it with something interesting.

[psyber624]

Re: The Reaper

 

NCM isnt always a "dropable" disadvantage. Sometimes it is a campaign rule enforced by the GM. You can't drop those just because you want to. Nor does reducing your speed by 1 point make a character go from awesome to worthless in combat. It helps, no doubt about that, but if all players are within a range of 2-3 SPD of each other you shouldnt run into too many issues.

 

Note that Restrainable normally isnt bought with the focus limitation. Just because it is a weapon that requires your hands to use doesnt automatically entitle you to this limitation.

 

Enhanced Physical Abilities can be part of a suit of armor (or a harness or whatever). Just buy them as normal (usually designated with a + in front of them, ie +1 SPD). Depends on the GM whether this will work under the NCM tho. Most will probably still require that you pay x2 points for abilities bought in such a way, although you can then buy limitations to reduce their cost... (Just remember that a limitation that doesn't limit you is worth no points, so if you buy all your powers with OIF or the like, don't complain when you suddenly loose that armor or what not on a fight. You are basically telling your GM when you use such a limitation that you eventually WANT to have to deal with the loss of all your powers.)

 

Finally there is a special Stretching power call "Reach" that is used in 6e for just what was discussed about. It is an adder to a power, each 1m Reach costs 1 Character Point (which does affect AP). So for +1 point (NOT advantage, just 1 extra point) your scythe could hit someone 1m further than normal melee attacks. (6e1 284 if you want to see how they built it)

[assault]

Re: The Reaper

 

NCM isnt always a "dropable" disadvantage. Sometimes it is a campaign rule enforced by the GM. You can't drop those just because you want to. Nor does reducing your speed by 1 point make a character go from awesome to worthless in combat. It helps' date=' no doubt about that, but if all players are within a range of 2-3 SPD of each other you shouldnt run into too many issues.[/quote']

 

Of course NCM is sometimes mandatory, but it's generally a bad idea to take it if it isn't, IMHO.

 

This character doesn't have an especially wonderful Combat Value, so he's likely to miss a lot. The combination of that and a relatively low SPD can drain a lot of fun out of a character, and even more so when the character's defences aren't all that special.

 

Every game has its own benchmarks, but this character is unbalanced by the standards of most games that I have seen. A 4 SPD would only make that worse.

[The Reaper]

Re: The Reaper

 

Every game has its own benchmarks' date=' but this character is unbalanced by the standards of most games that I have seen. A 4 SPD would only make that worse.[/quote']

 

What are your suggestions for how to make this character balanced?

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Reaper

 

I strongly suggest that you don't do this.

 

Your character is already completely useless outside of combat. This would make him useless in combat too.

 

Drop the NCM disadvantage. It's poison for building useful characters. Replace it with something interesting.

 

Not necessarily ... it depends on the campaign power levels. I've been in supers games where SPD 4 was just fine (most bricks were speed 3, and really awesome speedsters got as high as 6). All things are relative.