Enter the DREAMWORLD - bring other characters

[Sue]

Hello everybody

 

I am new to this gaming system and I need some help with the Enter the dreamworld power (as found in Power book ed. 6). There is an option "can bring another character" but it doesn't explain much. I'd like to know:

If I do bring another person does he disapper from real world and comes in his physical form or just as "spirit"?

Can he actually interact with the dreamworld or only see what happens?

What if he gets injured or dies (from "normal injuries" not "dream blast") in the dream? Does he take any damage and eventually dies in the real world?

 

Honestly I haven't even fully understood whether I may get injured myself for real, while I am in a drem.

 

I am trying to create a character with Inception-style powers, using dream-reading and maybe dreamweaver. Any other suggestions are welcome.

 

Thank you

[bigbywolfe]

The people brought along would go the same way the character with the power goes. In this case the power is built with Extra-Dimensional Movement so it would seem that you do go there physically. "While in the Dreamzone, the character can physically interact with dream-beings and dream-objects." That would apply to everyone brought to the Dreamzone.

[kahuna's bro]

welcome sue

[Sue]

Thank you both

 

After checking the Telepathy grid (enter into unconscious thoughts with +30 on MDCV) entering dreams to extract information seems an entertaining but rather complicated way to do it. It might make some sense if the GM accords me some advantages using dreams (the person is dreaming, logically his/her MDCV should be lower or I can physically find the secrets as it happens in the movie).

[psyber624]

Quick Note to make sure your clear: +30 does not affect MDCV, it means you need to roll higher than MD+EGO+30 on your Telepathy Dice to get that level of effect. The telepathy grid has no effect on the MOCV vs MDCV attack roll.

[bigbywolfe]

Okay, I think there was something missed in this exchange. Using Telepathy to read someone's dreams is nothing to do with the Enter the Dreamzone power. They are completely different.

[psyber624]

Sue is trying to replicate the ability of the characters in the movie "Inception" where they steal secrets from people by forcing them into a Dream State and then entering that Dream world and controlling it to access secrets. The movie is somewhat confusing as in the dreamstate the line between the apparent reality created in the dreamzone and the metaphorical dream interpretations of various aspects of the human psyche collide in often non-nonsensical and inconsistent manner. But that is beside the point.

 

The "Enter the Dreamworld" power is ENTIRELY different from the concept used in "Inception". "Enter the Dreamworld" is based upon the concept of an alternate reality which people visit and shape to an extent while dreaming. In the game system it is handled as an alternate Dimension just like Faerie, Babylon, or any other dimension you care to name.

 

What happens when you use the power is, as always, a factor of how the power is built and exactly how the "dreamworld" functions in the GM's universe.

 

If the GM is using the CU version of Dreamworld referenced by the power then unless the power is bought with the limitation "Leaves Physical Body Behind" as discussed in APG under the Projection power then the player is PHYSICALLY entering the alternate dimension of Dreamworld and if he "brings someone along" the same is true of the person he is bringing along. It all depends on how the power is built.

 

Telepathy + Mental Illusions is probably the best way to truly simulate the "Inception" concept. Projection(APG 1 92) + EDM gives you the "Dreamwalker" astral type power (someone who can leave their physical body behind and explore another person's dreams) although that still requires the GM to define the "Dreamworld" as an actual dimension in his game, otherwise Projection + Telepathy + possibly some other mental power will work. And of course EDM itself is all that is needed to physically enter a "Dreamworld" dimension if that is what you are looking for. "Taking someone with you" then is simply a matter of adding the appropriate elements to the power (UBO, Increased Mass, whatever is appropriate for that particular build)

[ayinde]

hey sue welcome

first cool power concept but I wanted to ask is your gm planning on having your character play out his imfo gathering missions? if not in my mind enter the dream world might be just a waste of points. maybe just give your character mind blast (to put target to sleep) and then but telepathy as high as your gm will be ok with the limitation concentration taken to its fullest to represent that your character is in a trance wile using the power so cant really function wile in use. if on the other hand your gm wants to play out your dream fact gathering why would you need telepathy? your already in there head? I might offer the idea of buying powers that only work in the dream world heck maybe even make the enter the dream world power a attack power so that your character can fight them were they have the advantage. meanwhile in the waking world your character and the character(s) you attack are taken out of the main fight

[Sue]

Thank you all for your help, it all sounds so complicated I'll need to read through your posts and check the books at the same time LOL.

 

I do understand that the dreamworld is an alternate reality and the idea of Inception style powers is actually not feasible (the film is based on the idea that you enter a person's mind when you enter a dream, a whole different concept whaich enables you to phisically find memories and info in the dream, like documents, and you don't need to use telepathy at all).

 

I think I understood how the concept of +30 roll works for telepathy, my roll must be +30 compared to the victim's MD+EGO (after I have already defeated him on MDCV, otherwise the attack has no effect: just like any punch/shot, my OCV against his DCV and action roll).

 

One question, is the victim's MD always on the same level? I mean, from a realistic point of view a person's mental defenses should be lower doing sleep or other situations ("hot" ones for example). Is that so or not?

[Lucius]

 

Thank you all for your help, it all sounds so complicated I'll need to read through your posts and check the books at the same time LOL.

 

I do understand that the dreamworld is an alternate reality and the idea of Inception style powers is actually not feasible (the film is based on the idea that you enter a person's mind when you enter a dream, a whole different concept whaich enables you to phisically find memories and info in the dream, like documents, and you don't need to use telepathy at all).

 

Just because you "don't need to use telepathy" doesn't mean that you don't need to use Telepathy. (Not a contradiction; explanation forthcoming)

 

Welcome to Hero. And welcome to "Reasoning from Effects."

 

The Powers descriptions explain what a given Power DOES. HOW it does it is another matter.

 

For example, one of the things the Power of Telepathy does is "find memories and info" to use your words.

 

What we call the "special effects" can be "my brain acts as an antenna and can detect the brainwaves emitted by another person's brain and translate them into meaningful information." It can be "I am such a skilled and perceptive psychologist that I can tell exactly what a person is thinking or feeling from subtle cues of expression, tone of voice, etc." It can be "I am such a superb detective that between having researched your past 'off screen' and deductions I can make from what I am observing now I can surmise the secrets you don't want me to know." It can even be "a whole different concept which enables you to physically find memories and info in the dream, like documents."

 

That's not to say that you can't use Extra Dimensional Movement, provided whoever is running the game agrees to doing it that way. Another fact about Hero is that there is often more than one way to do something.

 

I think I understood how the concept of +30 roll works for telepathy, my roll must be +30 compared to the victim's MD+EGO (after I have already defeated him on MDCV, otherwise the attack has no effect: just like any punch/shot, my OCV against his DCV and action roll).

 

One question, is the victim's MD always on the same level? I mean, from a realistic point of view a person's mental defenses should be lower doing sleep or other situations ("hot" ones for example). Is that so or not?

 

You could probably make a case that Mental DCV would drop for a sleeping character, just as their DCV drops. But Mental Defense, like Energy and Physical Defense, don't go away.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Palindromedary dreams

 

 

 

[psyber624]

Sue, the way to tell is by checking what the "Duration" of an ability is. Mental Defense is "Persistent" which means it is on even if the player is unconscious (including sleep) unless the player chooses to lower it voluntarily. Normally all characteristics not bought as powers are also considered Persistent however there are special rules for DCV under the "Surprised" combat rules that could apply to MDCV if the GM wishes (like Lucius stated).

 

Of course a character could buy his MD as not persistent if he wanted (and the GM could choose to simply change the duration for his campaign if he wanted to)

 

Edit: One way to have YOUR powers work better on sleeping opponents is to buy them that way:

+6d6 Telepathy AP 30(Only vs sleeping/unconcious targets, -2), (Only to counter MD, -1) RC 7

 

That would be enough to counter around 20 points of MD on sleeping targets, doesn't cost much at all, and due to the very specific nature of the ability many GM's may allow you to use that even if it exceeds normal AP caps for powers. You then just add 6 dice of effect to whatever your standard telepathy is and you are good to go

[Sue]

Thank you for your help! I think I'll discuss with my GM both using telepathy for both "a whole different concept which enables you to physically find memories and info in the dream, like documents." and buying the powers only vs sleeping/ unconscious characters.

 

Being my first character built with this system, and seeing the immense amount of rules I need to take into consideration, I might just keep it simple and build a "brick" at first, keep this complicated idea for my next one. I need to see what happens during the game to understand how useful some of these skills can be (I'm afraid I might end up with a character which looks cool but doesn't actually do much, also considering I have a max of 300 points to spend limitations included)

[psyber624]

Quick rules for a good character:

 

Check with your GM to find out what the campaign averages and caps are for OCV, DCV, AP Costs, and Defenses. Ensure that you are at LEAST within the ranges (or have a plan to combat your weakness in that area IE AOE Attacks/Mental Attacks/etc dont use OCV so it can be lower.

 

Buy 1 Attack power (no frills) to use as your standard combat options. Advantages are nice but especially if your GM is using AP caps most advantages will weaken your powers against the "average" target. If you want to be better at attacking certain types of targets consider a Multipower or Naked Advantages.

 

Pick your Defense: High DCV, High SPD (usually w/Martial Dodge), or High Armor. You can of course play middle of the road in these if you wish but that can be dangerous. Defenses are usually recommended to be half normal (PD/ED) half resistant (rPD/rED) although another standard is enough rPD/rED to resist the average AP capped KA roll (14 rDEF for 60 AP for instance).

 

Pick a movement power: If your a brick you gotta get into melee range, if your an EP you gotta stay out of it, every bodies gotta move. This is technically optional but I highly recommend it, again check with GM to find what campaign Averages are expected to be.

 

Make sure you have enough END to last for 2 turns of combat, with half moves and attacking every phase.

Make sure your CON+DEF is AT LEAST as high as the AVERAGE roll for the DC Cap (42 for 60 AP) (if one exists in your campaign) unless you want to be Stunned a lot.

Make sure you have enough STUN to get hit a couple of times as well

 

Finally make SURE to pick something you will have FUN with! Don't forget this is a game!

 

 

 

On a totally separate note be careful of power constructs like the one above. It may sound good on paper but its not one that will "play" well, especially with others. One of the important things to note when you start considering odd power constructs is to not only reason from GAME EFFECTS but to realize the EFFECT ON THE GAME of your power. The whole "entering the Dreamworld" schtick is a campaign level power, NOT a character level power, IE if your GM wants to run an Inception style campaign its perfect, but for a Super in a normal campaign it just doesn't work as it requires too much "screen time" for your character if you are the only one who can use it and is rather expensive and would require the GM to craft his adventures around it far too much for it to be worth the points you spend on it. (The EDM versions anyway) Running it as telepathy is probably your best bet if it is for a character in a normal game and just letting the inception style theatrics be "SFX" and come into play only if the GM decides it would be fun to do so at some point in time (He can always throw in a McGuffin so the entire team can join you in Dreamworld if he wants to go that route for a session or 2 after all).