Magic VPP, Props & Limitations

[Sketchpad]

Hey there,

So I'm working on some stuff for a fantasy game and I was thinking of allowing mages access to VPPs ... but I'd like them to be able to keep a book of their spells OOC ... in other words, they have to have the spell listed in their own notebook (with a breakdown of what it does) if they intend on using it. Would you consider this a limitation for the VPP Control Cost? If so, what would you give it? I was thinking something along the lines of:

30 pt. Magic VPP (Must have spells listed in spellbook, -1/2) 45/40

What does Herodom think?

[Monolith]

I would give it the -1/2 Limitation, which is what I believe is listed for spellbooks in VPPs in FREd.

[Black Rose]

Now, do you mean that the player needs to have a writeup of each spell (what I think you're saying) or that the character must have each spell they know in some stored form (spellbook, runestones, woven tapestry, etc.)? There's already a mention of the Requires Spellbook (-1/2) for the latter, and for the first, I'd go with -1/4 myself. It's really only valuable to the GM (in terms of speed and ease of play) and doesn't limit the player as much as it could (since you can always spend your free time coming up with new spells), and therefore worth as much as they want to give for it.

[Markdoc]

Black Rose has it right: there are tow possibilities.

 

If the player can only choose spells which the GM has OK'ed then that restricts the VPP. I do this IMG - players must either research a spell if they want to make their own, which means acquire a library, have the necessary skills and so on. OR, they have to track down a copy on Verminius' "Tome of Calling Forth the Hated Dead" or some such and winkle the spell they want out of that (in which case it would be one I have written). I give a -1/2 limit on this (limited class of powers: known spells)

 

If - in addition, or instead - the character has to carry a spellbook around with his spells in it to refresh his memory and keep his magic functional, then that's a focus and is therefore worth a seperate -1/2 (or a -1, if he actually has to read the spell out of the book) since it would be either an OIF or an OAF.

 

cheers, Mark

[PhilFleischmann]

This is an issue which seems to come up a lot. There is no one right answer. The restriction on a VPP of "Only Spells the Wizard Knows" vaies depending on how many spells the wizard knows and how easy/how often he can learn new ones. If he has to develop each spell himself at considerable cost/danger, the restriction could be quite high. If he finds old spell books in the treasure after every adventure, each with a few new spells in them, this will be less restrictive. This is a question I've been struggling with for a long time.

 

One way around it that I've used is to not use a VPP, but use a MultiPower with lots of slots. The drawback is that each spell has to be paid for, but they are all rather cheap 1/10 their real cost. I could go into lots of detail, but here it is breifly:

 

VPP Method:

50 Pool cost - up to 50 real points worth of spells, each no more than 50 active points

8-12 Control cost - (whatever standard restictions for the campaign magic system, but say -1, requires hours of study with spell book), and an additional restriction "Only Known Spells" -?

 

MP Method

25-50 50 Point Reserve with some overall lims

1 Spell A

1 Spell B

1 Spell C

1 Spell D

2-5 Big Spell - uses up the entire reserve

2-5 Another Big Spell

 

The slot costs can be reduced to as low as 1 point each by putting restrictions on the circumstances required to access those slots.

[AnotherSkip]

If we're going to do the whole VPP VS. X in magic I suggest you dig up the "do you allow VPP's?" thread and read that.

 

The bottom line is choose from the really huge section of concepts availible to build Magic Systems to your liking and go wild.

 

Personally I like VPP's in even a low fantasy game. Just make sure the pool is scaled appropriately and limited appropriately any you will be fine.

[Black Rose]

Originally posted by PhilFleischmann

This is an issue which seems to come up a lot. There is no one right answer. The restriction on a VPP of "Only Spells the Wizard Knows" vaies depending on how many spells the wizard knows and how easy/how often he can learn new ones. If he has to develop each spell himself at considerable cost/danger, the restriction could be quite high. If he finds old spell books in the treasure after every adventure, each with a few new spells in them, this will be less restrictive. This is a question I've been struggling with for a long time.

 

One thing I would do to make spells seem more "magical" (this could be my own taste, I realise) is to make sure each and every spell is very specific and nailed down, in terms of requirements and behind-the-scenes write-up. For example, Halaendor's Fire From the Heavens (EB with lightning SFX, Armor Piercing, OIF - iron ring with inset amber) is entirely different from Tomarik's Spear of the Storm (EB with lightning SFX, NND - metal armor, OIF - iron spear model), but now that you know both of them, you have more versatility. Once you have enough "smack 'em with a lightning bolt" spells, maybe let them fiddle with the parameters of each and discover the underlying commonality between them all (let the PC get Variable Advantages and Disadvantages).

 

One way around it that I've used is to not use a VPP, but use a MultiPower with lots of slots. The drawback is that each spell has to be paid for, but they are all rather cheap 1/10 their real cost. I could go into lots of detail, but here it is breifly:

 

VPP Method:

50 Pool cost - up to 50 real points worth of spells, each no more than 50 active points

8-12 Control cost - (whatever standard restictions for the campaign magic system, but say -1, requires hours of study with spell book), and an additional restriction "Only Known Spells" -?

 

MP Method

25-50 50 Point Reserve with some overall lims

1 Spell A

1 Spell B

1 Spell C

1 Spell D

2-5 Big Spell - uses up the entire reserve

2-5 Another Big Spell

 

The slot costs can be reduced to as low as 1 point each by putting restrictions on the circumstances required to access those slots.

 

This works well too. While I like VPPs a lot - I think they allow for a lot of the "play" in a power, and we only recently got the Power skill - there are some fun tricks that the Multipower is made for.

 

As an aside, if you have The Ultimate Supermage, look at the more powerful magic items listed. There's nothing in the world quite like having a grimoire with 105AP spells in it and only paying 30 points. Then again, you'll lose the book a lot, and be hunting it down most of the time, but hey... 105 AP Mind Control spells!!!:cool:

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by Black Rose

Now, do you mean that the player needs to have a writeup of each spell (what I think you're saying) or that the character must have each spell they know in some stored form (spellbook, runestones, woven tapestry, etc.)?

 

Or both.

 

There's already a mention of the Requires Spellbook (-1/2) for the latter, and for the first, I'd go with -1/4 myself.

 

Actually I believe its "requires a spellbook to change" not "requires a record of spells used, in spellbook."

[Eclectic Wave]

You could also have other neat dis-adds like; "Spell cannot be modified unless has access to magical research library/Lab" plus "Needs extra time to make changes to VPP Spells" the extra time being days/weeks that the wizard has to spend researching the "new" spell.

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by Eclectic Wave

You could also have other neat dis-adds like; "Spell cannot be modified unless has access to magical research library/Lab" plus "Needs extra time to make changes to VPP Spells" the extra time being days/weeks that the wizard has to spend researching the "new" spell.

 

If he hasn't used the spell before, he would need extra time. If he has, it's instantaneous.