Starlord

Originally posted by James Gillen

So which Champions Universe character would look best in a catsuit? Or anything tight?

 

JG

Well, Ambrosia, whom I mentioned, is already IN something pretty tight.

I choose to go old school and bring in a ringer.

Ambrosia from Champions of the North is still the hottest Champions chick...ever. Period. Nuff said! Hands down! End of story.

Let's also remember, Ambrosia isn't really a bad girl...she's just drawn that way.

Just guessing here, but those might indicate the proper way to write-up a 'god' to be exclusively worshipped in a Fantasy Hero game. They'll be written up on 2500+ points, but really aren't meant to be interacted with.

Use of a god-like character in a Champions game would be much lower in my opinion. For example, if I wanted Marvel's Thor to 'fairly' interact with the current Champions Universe, I'd probably make him approximately as powerful as Firewing or Gravitar.

Matter Rearranging Restrainer

4d6 Major Transform (target loses arms and legs; change back after 5 hours) (only Humans -1/2) (OIF -1/2)

Active: 60

Real: 30

Re: Re: Re: Some more thoughts

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Except that Thor has already beaten the Silver Surfer in the past.

 

I'm tellin' ya, these who-would-beat-who debates are a Mobius strip of comics trivia citations. You should just try something less complicated, like untying the Gordian Knot.

But, but, but....THEY'RE SO MUCH FUN TO DEBATE!!!

*You'd think a Thor fanboy like myself would've known he beat Silver Surfer. How embarassing.

Re: Some more thoughts

Originally posted by Vigil

Here's a few more match ups that I'd like all of your opinions on, (the current) Supes vs Gladiator or Supreme or Hyperion or Ultraman (from the Crime Syndicate) or the post Crisis Superman vs the Golden Age Superman (at his Crisis peak). Who would win?

 

Thanks for your ideas.

I'd have to go with Supes on those first match-ups, particularly since they've decided Supes can squeak by Thor (not that I agree with that)...and Thor has trashed Gladiator and Hyperion one-one-one in the comics.

Basically, if a true Marvel fan wanted to be sure to beat Superman, I'd just bring in...

the Silver Surfer.

Eh, Spidey beats 'em all.

...now what about Batman v. Wolverine?

Originally posted by Agent X

My annoyance with the Batman camp is that many of them seem to believe it wouldn't be close if Batman had time to plan. You would think that there wouldn't be any crime in Gotham if Batman was as capable as they imply. Would Batman be better off if he had time to prepare for Cap? Certainly. Would Cap be better off if he had time to prepare for Batman? Certainly. Does Batman have access to great gear? Certainly. Does Cap have access to great gear? Certainly. Is Batman a good strategic and tactical thinker? Certainly. Is Captain America a good strategic and tactical thinker? Certainly - and this is the one that the Batman Camp choose to discount.

Blind internal compromise is part of human nature. When faced with the probable defeat of your hero, you manifest a situation in which that hero might win. Cap wins fights...better than Batman in my opinion. Batman is great in a fight. What makes him different and unique from Cap is that he solves crimes, deduces mysteries, and is a master manipulator.

Cap becomes a victim of the simple idealist syndrome. For some reason because of his nature, he is not seen as clever. You also, unfortunately, see signs of this in DC's portrayal of Superman. Batman beat Superman? Eh. Wow, he used the clever 'kryptonite' strategy. Brilliantly insightful plan that was. It is a total insult to Superman's character to suggest Batman should beat him. The Superman I used to read was brilliant. An intellect easily on par with Batman. Idealistic, yes...but by no means gullible. An intelligently written Superman would usually be prepared for someone to use his one weakness against him. Bah.

I enjoyed the FF run in Heroes Reborn, but then I freely admit to being an unabashed Jim Lee fanboy.

Re: Re: Superman's Odd Behaviour

Originally posted by Worldmaker

Same with Cap... my money's on the two of them being mentally manipulated by the Gamemasters to make sure the two teams didn't go "Hey, we're both being set up... let's do something about it" very early in the game.

Same here, but Cap seems more 'fuzzy'. Except for his 'fascist' comments early on...he appeared much more 'in character' than Superman. And agreeing to help Batman seems to go against the theory as well.

Originally posted by austenandrews

I love the idea of that image, but I agree that the rendering is Liefeld-wrong.

 

-AA

The image is cool (and if it's not Perez it's a good imitator), but not the 'idea' of it in my opinion. In other words, if this turns out to be a 'let's-give-all-our-powers-and-weapons-to-Supes-and-he'll-save-the-day' type of ending, I'll be disappointed.

It also might indicate that Superman has gone crazy or is mentally controlled and has 'taken' the items. I won't like that either. Supes may be the greatest comics hero every, but none of the heroes should be that 'singled out' in this series.

Posted this on the NGD Forums, and thought it'd go well here too.

Originally posted by Worldmaker

Screw Batman and Captain America... I want to know why Superman wasn't bitchslapping Thor around like Supes was an angry pimp and Thor a 14-year old hooker...

Well they already made it ridiculously hard enough to fathom by having Supes actually win against a superior opponent, your suggestion would just be totally unbelievable.

Originally posted by Hermit

*L* On this we agree. In fact, it's one of the things that makes me regret not being a reader right now, I would love to see what Dick is doing with the Outsiders.

Hmmm. I can't see a scenario where Nightwing could boss Thor around like Captain America can.

Nightwing: "Thor! Fetch my slippers!"

Thor: "I SAY THEE NAY, STRIPLING!!"

Originally posted by Chuckg

[snip]

> Cap isn't a 'clever' fighter???

 

Cap is less clever than Batman. This is no shame... pretty much everybody short of intellects like Victor von Doom is less clever than Batman, especially inside one of Batman's specialities.

Yes, Cap is less clever than Batman...but that's not what I said. You'll not convince me that Batman is a more clever 'fighter' (which IS what I said) than Captain America. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

In this particular context, we have Batman essentially admitting Cap could beat him in a one-on-one fight. To use your own words...this is no shame. Cap is all about fighting. Doesn't make him the better superhero, Bats maybe falls short of him there, but surpasses him in many non-martial skills.

Re: Just IMO

Originally posted by Hermit

Here I must protest. ("I am not a merry man!" ) While, as always, it depends on who's writing, Cap has the proven edge in small unit tactics over about... oh, just about anyone in both universes. Heck, in my opinion, Nightwing is the better combat leader than his mentor. Batman is the premiere detective/deduction expert in his universe, Captain America is the tactic master on the side of the angels in his.

Agreed for the most part. You alluded to where I was going later in your post. Cap would manage team tactics better. I think Batman can even things out because, whether leading or not, he would quickly deduce the villains weakness and use his teammates to exploit it.

Originally posted by Chuckg

[bCap would be ready for something he doesn't know about?

 

'Staying alert for anything' is not the same thing as 'Knowing about everything that's going to come at you'.

 

To use Champions rulespeak, while Batman obviously wouldn't get the x2 STUN multiplier for an out of combat surprise, because Cap is obviously expecting attack, he *would* still be eligible for a Surprise Move bonus.

 

And as narrowly matched as they already are, that's just the edge he needs.

[/b]

Well, noone would know for sure what's coming next from either of them. That doesn't have anything to do with unfair or dirty tactics, just clever fighting. Cap isn't a 'clever' fighter??? For example, Bats couldn't be prepared for Caps to seemingly throw his shield away, meanwhile its bouncing off 5 walls, and streaking for his back. That's not 'dirty' or 'unfair', just clever.

Originally posted by Chuckg

Who the hell said that Cap 'would fall to the ground weeping'? You're deliberately trivializing the opposing POV so you don't have to look at it.

I'm trivializing it because it doesn't make sense. Batman is a relatively unknown entity to Cap, he'd expect just about anything. Simply using sneaky tricks from his utility belt is not 'unfair', he is merely using the weapons at his disposal. Cap would be ready for that (whether he could counter them is another matter).

To Cap all is fair once battle commences. 'Unfair' tactics would only work out of combat against Cap, perhaps depending on Bats getting Cap to trust him, then deceiving him.

Anyway, you had Bats himself admitting Cap is the better one-on-one fighter. They're probably even as combat leaders. However, Batman's strengths don't just focus on combat, he is most dangerous behind-the-scenes figuring things out.

Recently, Cap was powerless against the Triune Understanding. He didn't understand how to deal with them. I imagine Bats infiltrating their organization and exposing them in one issue or so.

Originally posted by Chuckg

My own comments:

 

 

a) Of course, that 'Cap would win eventually' assumes that both sides are fighting fair.

 

Batman. Fight fair. Now pull the other one, it's got bells on.

 

But Batman's not going to *tell* Cap that, now is he? Much better to surprise him next time.

That is always brought up in the bazillions of Cap vs. Bats debates we've had here.

I still don't understand the assumption that Cap would fall to the ground weeping in fear if someone didn't fight 'fair'.

The Red Skull is such an 'honorable' opponent.

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I don't think another attachment on these boards has been downloaded 676 times.

Check out the first page of the Superhero Images thread.

Hmmm. The effects would seem to me to indicate a Social Limitation since the constant negative stories would disturb the character's interaction with society and/or what others think of him. Although it depends on the size/influence of the magazine, I would make it a 5 pt. Occasional, Minor.

Being a somewhat Cincinnatian, I think it would mean that Dr. Destroyer would be alot less hated.

The rust will go away. The bright side is that you've done the hard part, ie. finding an actual group of 'reasonable' adults to game with.

Social Limitation that depends on how often a lethal situation arises for the members of that precinct. For your average officer I'd say it's 10 points for Occasionally, Major.