Gary

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD It directly changes the balance of power between character types. There's less reason to play a mentalist if it's a lot cheaper to counter your abilities.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD That's why I gave my assumptions in post 153 of this thread. The difference should be 21-41 pts assuming 3-5 pt costs for MCV. Somehow I doubt very much the cost will be less than 3 or greater than 5.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD 41 pts difference compared to 5E status quo is pretty sizable to me.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD I'm not worried about the concept itself, I'm merely worried about balance effects.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD You could give him a OMCV of 3 and there would still be a sizable imbalance between 5 and 6E. Besides, there are plenty of characters who are so firmly grounded in reality that while it's hard for others to affect their minds, they can't grasp the idea of mental combat.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD To get the exact same situation between 5E and 6E: In 5E, M buys 23 Ego. Non-M buys 14 Ego. Non-M spends 18 pts less and is hit on a 14- and has 14 pts defense vs most mental powers. M has 23 pts defense against most mental powers. In 6E, assuming Ego is 1 pt and MCV is 5 pts, M buys 23 Ego, 8 OMCV and 8 DMCV for a total of 63 pts. Non-M buys 14 Ego, 1 OMCV and 5 DMCV for a total of 4 pts. Non-M is in the EXACT same situation as in 5E relative to the M and has the EXACT same chance of being hit and has the EXACT same mental defense, but has spent 41 pts less relative to 5E. If MCV were 4 pts each, the relative difference would be 31 pts. If MCV were 3 pts each, the relative difference would be 21 pts.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD In 5E, the typical M might spend 26 pts to have Ego 23. The typical non-M might spend 8 pts to have a Ego 14. The non-M spends 18 pts less and will be hit on 14-. No mental defense is bought. In 6E, at 5 pts per MCV, the M spends 50 pts on 8 OMCV and DMCV. The non-M spends 15 pts on 1 OMCV and 8 DMCV. No mental defense is bought. The non-M spends 35 less pts and will be hit on a 11-. Under both scenarios, the non-M could spend on mental defense. The 6E non-M is clearly much better off relative to the 5E non-M, and it's not even close. He spends 17 pts less AND is harder to hit given the same amount of mental defense purchased.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD You mean leave a DMCV of 3? Then it wouldn't fit the conception of the "iron willed" hero and he'd be way vulnerable to other attacks that use DMCV but don't use mental defense as the defense.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #2: New Combat Maneuvers; Objects As Weapons Sounds good! I'm still a little concerned about rapid fire when using a NND or other nonstandard attack.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD Then he wouldn't have a point advantage over the mentalist if he did that.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD A common archetype built strictly according to conception and the rules has a sizable advantage over another common archetype built strictly to conception and the rules.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD He spends some of the 35 pts saved on OMCV compared to mentalist on ego or mental defense. Say 10 pts mental defense (he's iron willed remember). Now he's hard to hit, hard to affect, and has 25 spare points for other things.

Re: Reminiscing About Star Fleet Battles You can download basic rules and ship cards for 2 basic ships and run a sample combat if you want from their website and see if you like the system.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD All things are possible. That doesn't mean that all things are balanced. In heroic fiction, there are scads of heroes with wills of iron who have no skills with psychic powers themselves. In game terms, there would be the same number, but they would start off with a big point advantage over mentalists. I'm less worried about OCV/DCV imbalances since they're much more useful for general characters.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD The difference is that CV is one of the most important parts of a character's combat abilities. In the past, a mentalist had an enormous advantage in MCV over a normal character because he or she usually had 20-30 Ego whereas most typical non-mentalist characters had 10-15. Obviously there are exceptions. Now, the mentalist still needs to buy up BOTH OMCV and DMCV. The non-mentalist needs to only buy up DMCV. The non-M needs to spend only half or less as many points to match the M character now as opposed to about the same number of points before. Example: If MCV were 5 pts per level, the M character might have 8 of each for a total of 50 pts. The non-M character has 1 OMCV and 8 DMCV for a total of 15 pts.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD Not quite related to the new advantage, but if you have to buy up your CVs from scratch, what's to prevent most people from having OMCV of 3 (or even 1 by selling back) and DMCV of 8? Or for that matter, a mentalist with no physical attacks from having an OCV of 1 and DCV of 10?

Re: Reminiscing About Star Fleet Battles Just picked up Federation Commander. IMO, it's SFB done RIGHT. They stripped out all the crud and cumbersome rules that added little value and immense complexity and left a great streamlined game that keeps the flavor of SFB, but can be played in 1/4 the time and can be taught 10 times as fast. The production values are a joy and the ship cards are well made and intuitively easy to use. My friend and I were able to dive into a game almost immediately between a Federation CA and a Klingon D7C.

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD

Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #1: ACV And AVAD Do the limitations and advantages cancel each other out, or are they both applied separately? Example: Let's say you want a transform using MCV but with PD as defense. Let's say that using MCV instead of OCV is a 1/2 Advantage, and using PD instead of Power Defense is a -1 Limitation. Is it a net -1/2 limitation (1d6 Transform is still 15 Active but only 10 Real points) or are both applied separately (1d6 transform becomes 22 Active and 11 Real points)? This makes a big difference in the impact to the game system.

Re: Takofane's Undead Minions Here is the 350 point version of the Ghost: 10 Str 0 20 Dex 30 10 Con 0 10 Body 0 10 Int 0 13 Ego 6 20 Pre 10 10 Com 0 10 PD 8 10 ED 8 5 SPD 20 4 Rec 0 20 End 0 20 Stun 0 82 60 Desolidification 0 End (+1/2) Persistent (+1/2) Inherent (+1/4) Always On (-1/2) 20 Affects Solid World with Str 50 Full Life Support 5 Power Defense 5 pts 5 Mental Defense 8 pts 30 Airwalking 10" Flight 0 end 73 110 Multipower Not in Direct Sunlight (-1/2) 7 Ghost Aura 2d6 Drain Str, Int, Ego, Pre (+1) Pre Affects Solid World (+2) Area Effect Radius (+1) 0 End (+1/2) 7 Aging Touch 1d6+1 HKA NND (+1) Does Body (+1) Affects Solid World (+2) 0 End (+1/2) 2 Fear +50 Pre Offense Only (-1) 4 Invisibility to Sight Sound Smell 0 End 3 1 Level with Multipower 2 1 Level with Aging Touch 268 350 This version of the ghost never developed the ability to take over a victim's body. He is more of a straightforward combatant and has further developed his other inherent ghostly powers. He's virtually impossible to stop unless you can affect desolidified, in which case he becomes almost ridiculously easy to defeat.

Re: Takofane's Undead Minions Here is the 600 point Ghost: 10 Str 0 20 Dex 30 18 Con 16 10 Body 0 13 Int 3 23 Ego 26 20 Pre 10 10 Com 0 15 PD 13 15 ED 11 5 SPD 20 6 Rec 0 36 End 0 24 Stun 0 129 60 Desolidification 0 End (+1/2) Persistent (+1/2) Inherent (+1/4) Always On (-1/2) 140 Magic Jar Mind Control 20D6 0 End (+1/2) Affects Solid World (+2) No Range (-1/2) Must Achieve +30 (-1/2) Must Remain in Contact With Target (-1/2) 20 Affects Solid World with Str 50 Full Life Support 5 Clinging Linked to Mind Control (-1/2) Must stay inside Mind Control target (-1/2) 22 Spatial Awareness Life Sense 60 50% DR Physical and Energy 10 Power Defense 10 pts 10 Mental Defense 15 pts 30 Airwalking 10" Flight 0 end 10 Mind Slave 1 pip Mental Transform 0 End (+1/2) Affects Solid World (+2) Continuous (+1) Uncontrolled (+1/2) No Range (-1/2) Must Remain in Contact With Target (-1/2) Linked with Mind Control (-1/2) 37 55 Multipower Not in Direct Sunlight (-1/2) 4 Ghost Aura 1d6 Drain Str, Int, Ego, Pre (+1) Pre Affects Solid World (+2) Area Effect Radius (+1) 0 End (+1/2) 4 Aging Touch 1/2d6 HKA NND (+1) Does Body (+1) Affects Solid World (+2) 0 End (+1/2) 2 Fear +50 Pre Offense Only (-1) 4 Invisibility to Sight Sound Smell 0 End 3 1 Selected Skill 471 600 Due to the fact that this version of the ghost was never a sorceror, he has spent more time developing the inherent powers of a ghost. He can turn invisible, age someone to death, or scare them. He can actually manifest such a powerful aura of malevonence that people become weak, confused, and fearful in the aura. He can take over people's bodies and does so as first preference, but is still dangerous even when unable to.

Re: Takofane's Undead Minions Here is the 800 point Ghost: 10 Str 0 20 Dex 30 23 Con 26 10 Body 0 23 Int 13 26 Ego 32 20 Pre 10 10 Com 0 15 PD 13 15 ED 10 6 SPD 30 7 Rec 0 46 End 0 27 Stun 0 164 60 Desolidification 0 End (+1/2) Persistent (+1/2) Inherent (+1/4) Always On (-1/2) 140 Magic Jar Mind Control 20D6 0 End (+1/2) Affects Solid World (+2) No Range (-1/2) Must Achieve +30 (-1/2) Must Remain in Contact With Target (-1/2) 20 Affects Solid World with 10 Str 50 Full Life Support 5 Clinging Linked to Mind Control (-1/2) Must stay inside Mind Control target (-1/2) 22 Spatial Awareness Life Sense 60 50% DR Physical and Energy 20 Power Defense 20 pts 20 Mental Defense 25 pts 45 Airwalking 15" Flight 0 end 6 +3 Levels with Mind Control 80 VPP 64 Control Cost Magic Only Change as 0 Phase 19 Magic Skill 23- 10 Mind Slave 1 pip Mental Transform 0 End (+1/2) Affects Solid World (+2) Continuous (+1) Uncontrolled (+1/2) No Range (-1/2) Must Remain in Contact With Target (-1/2) Linked with Mind Control (-1/2) 15 5 Selected Skills 636 800 Warning, this ghost is virtually impossible for a party to stop unless they have characters designed to stop desolidified opponents. This version of the ghost was a mighty sorceror in life. The Ghost's major ability is to take over your body. If his 20d6 mind control succeeds at +30, he anchors himself to your body using his clinging str to stay inside your body. If you don't succeed in a breakout roll in a certain number of phases (depending on your ego), the control becomes permanent as the Ghost's ego transform zaps you. The ghost is sent on solo assassination or spying missions and he's frighteningly good at his job. Due to the fact that he was a sorceror, he has not developed the inherent abilities of the ghost to its fullest, instead depending on magical powers to see himself through most situations.