Stone

Re: First Wave of Superhumans: How Long?

1986 - Chernobyl was actually a Soviet military experiment. When the experiment goes wrong, it releases particles into the atmosphere and the jet stream carries the particles across the globe. Later that year, the first recorded "super" is found.

Re: A little help for one of my players

Warning - "Danger Will Robinson"

Help - Help by the Beatles

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

Rolemaster campaign:

 

Upon entering a room in an ancient ruins the party encounters a statue of a very large humanoid. One of the characters approaches the statue at which point it swings at him. Thankfully the statue misses and everyone backs away. A few minutes later a few more party members arrive and the following conversation ensues.

 

Mage: Hey whatever you do. Don't get close to that statue!

 

Arriving character: You mean like this? (He walks up to the statue)

 

The statue swings mightily connecting with the party member. The critical results in the characters heart being destroyed by the concussion of the blow. Instant death.

 

Mage: Yeah, just like that!

LOL!!! I love Rolemaster.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

From our Scion Game:

We had a rather large tussle in a west Texas oil field with an oil titanspawn critter. Yes, it was made of oil. One of our female team members was knocked out and pretty much covered in oil...as we all were to some degree, just not as much as her. We put her in the back of the our mini suv and head back to town. We all need to clean up.

GM - Are you heading back to the motel covered in oil?

Player 1 - No, I pull into a carwash. I then pull her out of the back of the suv and wash her off.

(laughter)

Player 2 - Yeah, but why did you use the wax?

Player 1 - Did you see her legs?

(Laughter from everyone...including the player of the unconscious PC)

Re: What if superheroes only appeared in a limited region?

It would depend on how many were effected. Is every person in the region going to develop abilities, or only a small percentage of the people in the region? Obviously the more people developing abilities, and the strength of the abilities will drastically impact the world's reaction. Also, I believe you are correct in your assessment about the world's reaction based on the geographical location of the region.

I can imagine the government of the region swooping in and quarantining the entire area. Massive testing would be done on all the inhabitants, as well as relatives who do not live in the region to look for genetic markers. I can also see the government folks who are sent into the region being tested on a regular basis to see if the region has had any affect on them. Naturally everything else in the region would be tested as well. The government would most likely try to conceal this as much as possible with stories of an "outbreak" of some kind, or radiation scare.

Unfortunately, I see the other world governments not taking this very well and demanding to be apart of the investigation. I also see these governments engaging in espionage to get access to the test files and trying to reproduce the results on their own people. A whole new weapons race.

Re: So why was the old man killed?

I like Cygnia's idea. The ledger could be protected in a small area made of what ever blocks Sentinel's vision, or it could a computer file, or in a safe deposit box. Maybe the thief was looking for the key to the box.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

Last nights Pathfinder Game

Pandora - female ranger who's animal companion is a snake. She is refusing to wear a dress to sneak into a formal event.

Pandora - "I'll cut my hair short and make a fake beard and mustache. I'll wear pants. I'll be a guard."

GM - "Well, at least you really could say you have a trouser snake."

Re: 250 point Dark Champions Green Hornet type advice?

Might consider adding mechanics and a few more science skills if possible, but it looks good.

Re: Champions 6th version

Then I'll make a suggestion I've made elsewhere. Set campaign minimums for the former figured as follows:

 

PD: STR/5

ED: CON/5

... and so on. Oh, and allow them to ignore one of these minimums.

 

No, it won't give you the free points that the old Figured Characteristics gave you, but it does mean the former Primaries have an effect on the value of the former Figureds.

I appreciate the suggestion. When I'm able to get my hands on a copy and read through it, I'll have to make a determination on what changes I like and dislike and then make my own house rules. Right now I am considering coming up with my own characteristic costs and formula for figured characteristics.

Re: Champions 6th version

I almost always bought up my figured stats anyway. If I gave my guy a 60 STR and a 30 CON, you can be sure I didn't leave his PD at 12 and his ED at 6. I might leave his REC and END alone (depending on concept), but I'd almost always tweak his STUN as well.

 

At a guess, I'd say most Hero players did the same thing most of the time. Figured, not figured, I suspect few people will even notice the difference in actual play.

Agreed. It just depends on your character concept.

Re: Champions 6th version

That's cool really. Mostly I'm just questioning the idea that it's a "core mechanic" or such. I have no real problem with the idea of loving them as a mechanic or concept- I find issue with telling us we're not playing the same system as beforexwhen many of us like the change.

 

It's still Hero - it's just not exactly them same as before for better or worse. Fuzion was a comleyely different system - 6E is not.

I said core since it had been with the system since the beginning. I'm willing to give it chance. I may end up liking it, who knows.

I also agree it's still Hero. I've tried very hard to forget Fuzion.

Re: Champions 6th version

Except you could only sell one back. So of you wanted 2 or more of the figured characteristics to be low (for whatever reason) you had to leave the Primaries low as well. And if you wanted them high you had to buy them with a Limitation. Thatcsays to me that the process of Reasoning From Effect was inherently flawed that there was that much complexity.

 

Without figureds you now buy them all exactly where you want them - no hoops.

I agree with you on only being able to sell one stat back. I didn't agree with that either, but then again there were multiple things in Hero I disagreed with.

Correct. No hoops, and no relationship between characteristics either. I promise I'm not trying to be bull-headed or argue for the sake of arguing. I just liked the relation between the primaries and the figured stats.

Re: Champions 6th version

I'll admit I find to difficult to understand how people can be so attached to formulae that were clearly chosen just because they looked nice and used simple numbers. I mean does anyone really think that how much you lift and how hard you punch determines how physically tough you are while your general healthiness determines how resistant to energy damage you are but plays no part in your resistance to physical damage?

 

Not to mention that these formulae were broke from the beginning and the highly artificial rule restricting you to only selling back one Figured Characteristic had to be put in place to prevent exploits.

Were the figured characteristics perfect? Of course not. There is no gaming system this is. Do you not think there will be opportunities in 6th Ed for players to exploit the system? Of course there will be. I'm not attached to the formulas. What I am attached to is the concept of the primary characteristics effecting the figured characteristics. I'm all for revamping the formulas or character costs...within reason. I simply disagree with removing figured characteristics all together.

Re: Champions 6th version

This is what I was trying to get at' date=' above. Hero is frequently called an "effects based system". Instead of having a power called Generate and Control Fire, you buy the fire blast, the fire shield, the ability to fly by projecting fire, the ability to create rings of fire, etc. Figured Characteristics fail the "effects based" part.[/quote']

 

I disagree with that. Figured characteristics are effects based. Yes you can spend points to increase them or lower them and gain some points, but their base value was the effect of the primary characteristics.

 

Let me be clear about this. I am not bashing anyone for liking this change. I sincerely hope Hero Games continues to be successful for a long long time. I simply disagree with this change.

Re: Champions 6th version

It makes sense that a character who can increase his density by, say, 64x, can also bounce bullets from his skin. You still have to buy Resistant Protection, though.

 

Thing is, now you get to decide what makes sense. Maybe I want my high INT, high EGO guy (representing quick thinking) to have a high SPD to go with it. It makes sense to me that quickness of thought leads to quick reactions. I buy high INT, high EGO, and high SPD.

 

To me, this is the one and only heart of the HERO System: the person making the character, and not the system, gets to decide what abilities it makes sense for his character to have, based on his concept of the character and special effects.

 

If you want your high DEX character to have high SPD, and be harder to hit in combat, you can buy those things. If you want your iron willed mentalist with high EGO to be harder to affect with Mental Powers, you can buy those things. No one took your concepts away. You still have the tools to realize those concepts. They're just not automatically connected.

I understand what you and the others have said. However your example of high INT, EGO, and Speed is mute since those stats were not coupled in 5th edition. How did 5th edition decide what abilities a character had? The figured characteristics simply reflected the effects of the primary characteristics. Now there is no relationship between any characteristics. I simply think this a bad idea. Yes I know I will still be able to buy up characteristics to represent having a high CON, DEX, or STR, but to me it removes a core component to the system.

Re: Champions 6th version

I don't think you're quite 'getting' what they are saying. As clearly as I can say it: 'Decoupling' the old figured characteristics does not stop you in any way shape or form from making the character you want. It does make it easier to make characters who didn't need all those figured stats.

 

The first thing my players would always do is hand me their characters and have me 'tweak' their stats so they were 'cost effective'. Now that is no longer necessary, they can just buy what they need.

 

And finally, it removes the old (BS) argument from non-HERO gamers that you require calculus(or other high math) skills to play the game. You'd be surprised how many people that statement would scare away.

 

Of course, you can still play 5E, there is nothing wrong with it. But try to keep an open mind, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I do appreciate you trying to explain it, but please don't take this the wrong way. I understand what they are saying. A PC simply buys the characteristic to the level they want. I agree with your statement about the BS argument about math. Its simple math.

There will be min/max'ing in 6th edition just like in any point based system. My point is decoupling the figured characteristics turns them into just another stat with no relation to any other stat. IMO this will no longer reveal the impact of the primary stats without the PC having to buy up the formerly coupled stats separately.

Re: Champions 6th version

Nimble Thief who has no idea how to act or react in combat, in fact he tends to freeze up: High DEX, Low DCV

 

The Oafish Brute who is out of shape but can still drink like a fish, and is incredibly hard to stun, too bad just walking up a flight of stairs winds him: High Con, Low END

 

So, some SFX that could be easily created with the new method. Yes, they can be created other ways but I thought the point of Hero was options not restrictions?

I was speaking in generalities. Yes, there are several examples for each side of the argument. I get I'm in the minority here, but that doesn't change my opinion nor am I trying to change anyone else's opinion. IMO removing figured characteristics will less accurately reflect the results of the primary stats without the character having to buy up the formerly figured characteristics.

Re: Champions 6th version

If you think it is reasonable there is nothing stopping you from buying up the END and REC of characters that buy up their CON. The system doesn't stop you from doing it' date=' it just doesn't force you to do it anymore.[/quote']

 

5th edition did not force you to buy END or REC to represent a higher CON. The character already received bonuses to END or REC as a result of buying a higher CON.

 

Removing the figured characteristics will force a PC to buy up END and REC to represent having a higher CON.

Re: Champions 6th version

There is, of course, nothing at all stopping you from buying the END and REC you think your character needs. Indeed, there's less stopping you now, since you can create a high CON character with an abnormally low END and/or REC, if your character concept calls for it (maybe someone who is really fat, who can take a punch in the gut but gets winded walking up a flight of stairs?).

 

Or a nimble and agile character (high DEX) who's not really that much good in a fight (low CV).

 

The more I think about it, the more character concepts this opens up for me. YMMV, of course, but there's nothing that prevents you from buying up all the stats you think you need. If you want a high CON, high END, high ED, high REC, high STUN character, it's still easy enough to make one. Easier, maybe.

I agree there is nothing stopping anyone from buying up those stats. There was nothing stopping anyone from buying them in the first 5 editions of Hero either. IMO losing the figured characteristics loses alot of the effect of the primaries.

Re: Champions 6th version

To each their own. I always considered the effect the Primaries had on Figureds to be an annoying side effect and am happy to see the linkage gone. It has annoyed me since I started playing Champions back in '81 and I couldn't be happier that it is gone.

I also started back '81. I've always considered the figured characteristics an effect of the primaries. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

Re: Champions 6th version

So, why were the Base values calculated from Primaries placed in the same column and treated the same way as the free base of 10 that each Primary got.

 

And incidentally, other systems have Characteristics figured from other Characteristics. Therefore, by definition, it is not unique.

To represent the effects of the primary characteristics. Does it not stand to reason someone who is in real good shape (CON) would be able to exert (END) themselves longer than someone not in good shape, or that the person in good shape would be able to catch their breath quicker (REC)?

Yes, I'm sure there are other systems that use figured characteristics. I have played quite a few systems, but I could not recall another system off the top of my head that used figured characteristics.

Re: Champions 6th version

And with the exception of Strength' date=' all of those former Primaries that impacted the former Figureds now cost less.[/quote']

 

Yes the cost were reduced, but the need for the primaries was also reduced. IMO this in not a good move.

Re: Champions 6th version

Yes, it does.

 

And brings it in line with one of the key Hero philosophies of getting what you pay for.

 

In the same way that buying large amounts of movement doesn't let you vibrate through walls for free, buying large amounts of STR shouldn't give you large amounts of PD for free.

 

But the arguments in favor of and against Figured Characteristics were made in these forums before and after it was announced that Steve was considering "decoupling" them in 6e. And there is really no need to go through it all again.

What about DEX? Does it not make sense someone with a high DEX would be quicker and harder to hit in combat? If the figured characteristics SPEED, OCV, & DCV are not based on DEX, then it makes DEX less necessary. In fact, not having figured characteristics reduces the importance of all the primary characteristics used in figured characteristics.

I don't view figured characteristics as getting something for free. They are a by-product of the primary characteristics. I disagree with removing them from the game. IMO it removes something that was unique to the system and diminishes the system.

Re: Champions 6th version

Jettisoning the Figured CHARs made no sense either.

 

Given the revision it seems that every CHAR should be 1/1 as none of them really seem to have any use at all, anymore.

 

DEX being 2/1 just seems to be a rather lame attempt to retain some of the old flavour (gvien that it's usefulness has been gutted as it it no longer determinative of OCV/DCV) and to prevent the system from looking too much like the CHAR generation systems you see in online gaming.

 

Moreover by making EGO 1/1 the system makes Mental powers, which were already a pretty dodgy prospect even more unavailing. At one for one the cost of EGO is such that bricks can run around with 30 EGOs for 20 paltry points. It just about makes EGO powers useless.

 

Obviously, the big change is breaking out OCV/DCV into their own CHARs. This seems to echo other systems...see below. This is not too terribly bad of an idea but given that in the examples they are all tied to to the 3/1 DEX ratio why bother anyway? Moreover, this formula makes CSLs basically superfluous, which the rules kinda do anyway.

 

 

I'm hoping really that this is all a glitch or a bad dream or an imaginary story as this is a truly horrendous revision. Maybe I will wake up tomorrow and see that is as it was and all is good.

 

I have to agree with this.

Re: Champions 6th version

Technically there aren't any figured Characteristics anymore. The characteristics that were formerly figured are now brought up from a base like the others.

So this does away with a core concept that has been with the system from the get go? Sad. Yep, not a fan.