drsid

Re: Parsing and refining skills thanks for the reference, Lord Liaden; and, interesting take on averaging and parsing, Utech. With regard to all these 5th edition references, it would be cool if there was a FAQ about which books are still fully useable and which ones are totally obsolete. Maybe even a book by book commentary on what changes would need to be made. Especially, for those of us entering the Hero System with 6th edition. Right now, we are either limited to waiting for 6th edition versions of material, or hesitantly have to decide which 5th edition books to buy.

Re: brainstorming a urban cyber-fantasy setting contrite ... whoops. a typo. I meant contrived. I am starting to agree with you with regard to blending the apocalypse and cyber setting. I think I will stick with a more cyber setting.

Re: brainstorming a urban cyber-fantasy setting whoops. the story takes place in 2112. The 2247 AD was an erroneous cut and paste. With regard to the post-apoc element, I am still deciding whether to implement that or not. I calculated the notion of an apocalypse based on the size of the crashing space ship. Something relatively small would not have a great impact, but something equivalent in size to the meteor that is supposed to have wipe out the dinosaurs would have a greater ecological impact. The idea would be that the technological advantages of the 21st century and the desire of the aliens to avoid population centers mitigated the damage. I don't want the entire population wiped out; but it had enough of an impact to create ecological and climate changes. As time has passed, the impact has been further mitigated. With regard to city, my plan was to base everything in a future San Francisco. Being from California, I know the geography well enough and I had some plans for the NA geopolitical situation. I just need to figure out how that came about. Essentially, Aztlan is reborn and the southwest of the US is their dominion, except SanFran, which remains a corporate city-state. Borrowing elements of Shadowrun, the US and Canada have merged, and the southern states have seceded and united with the Caribbean nations. On element for a post-apoc, I was considering, and again this is where I wonder if its too much crammed together, was that the crash triggered an earthquake that essentially flooded and destroyed the Los Angeles Basin and greater San Diego areas, creating a number of mini islands and underwater landscape used by pirates and smugglers into Aztlan.

Re: Parsing and refining skills wow. the depth and breadth of this system is staggering.

Re: Parsing and refining skills ah, so you would use the limitations rules for power and apply them to skills to reduce the cost? So, a normal increase in charm would cost 2 points, but if I limit my charming to robotic weasels, it only costs 1 point?

Re: Parsing and refining skills I used computer programming as an example. My main concern, though is more along the lines of having enough variety in skills to allow characters to differentiate themselves. For example, if all you have is computer programming, what is to keep every single character from spending a few points on computer programming. Or, in a high technology setting, I would imagine computer programming may even qualify as a everyman skill. So, what differentiates the hacker or software designer from the "everyman?" I think the easy solution is to simply have the hacker take KS in various aspects of programming that can be used as complementary skills, something the everyman or other PC's wouldn't necessary have. As you point out IndianaJoe3, KS and PS's probably are the way to go rather than parsing out additional skills. Rapier: sorry, but I'm a little dense. Can you elaborate on what you mean about using skill levels for specific subsets. I thought that if the person buys a skill level it would apply specifically to computer programming. How would you have skill levels for those separate skills without actually just creating them as skills to be bought?

Re: what are "skill levels?" I see. I didn't realize the limitation of skill levels as they apply to phases. And, quite frankly, I didn't realize that you could have a skill based on an object. I thought that had to be done through powers. WOW, that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. So, to see if I understand. Lets say my character, Dr. Gates, is a computer engineer with computer programming (+2), , analyze( +3), bugging, electronics, security systems, system operations (+2), and mechanics. And, he then purchases a cybernetic implant which houses a research library, a wikipedia in his head if you will which is a skill level(10), granting him +1 to all non-combat skills. The phase-use limitation could then, in game terms represent that he can only access a particular part of the research library at a time.

Since I have starting to read the HERO SYSTEM, I am more and more impressed and thrilled to have found something so damnably cool! I have a friend who frowned at me even mentioning Hero until he realized it was on the 6th iteration and saw the book. Apparently, he had bailed on the system back in 4th edition. Anyway, my plan was to initially use Shadowrun completely as it is and simply replace the rule system for HERO; however, given the breadth and depth of HERO, I am tempted to completely scrap that idea and just design my own campaign setting. I want to merge some concepts, which are likely to be contrived and cliched at this point but ... ah well. Anyway, some of my thoughts are as follows, all of which is completely open to revision. The core premise of the setting starts from the relatively contrite and cliched notion that an alien space craft crashes on earth,allowing the presence of various races on the planet without the need for RIFT-esque parallel worlds or a Shadowrun-esque “awakening.” The arrival of the aliens and the resulting cataclysm of having a gigantic-ship crashing on the earth is both a catastrophe and an opportunity. Their arrival certainly creates an apocalypse wherever they crash, setting of a chain reaction of events that have geopolitical and ecological consequences. The crash occurs in 2012 to play of the Mayan calendar myths and such. The plan is to have the ship be a sort of last-ditch “ark” for a space-faring civilization with approximately 200,000 to 400,000 sentient inhabitants spread across 2-3 species/races and numerous non-sentient species that slowly escape after the crash and spread throughout earth. Thus, allowing for the presence of alternative races and “monsters.” The sentient species will generally be benign to humanity, but the expected conflicts should afford plenty of interesting interactions. In essence, the new arrivals are not here to conquer or pillage the earth by any means. In fact, to mitigate as much damage as possible to the inhabited earth, they actually crash land their craft in a relatively unpopulated area, perhaps Australia’s Outback, the Sahara desert, or even Antarctica. In exchange for our “hospitality” they share their advanced biotechnology. The campaign takes place a hundred or so years after the event, in order to allow for things to settle down and for the first generation of humans to make contact to have died. The current population has, to some extent, taken the newcomers for granted as they have grown up with them there. The races considered for inclusion, so far are space-variants of elves, dwarves, and an Ogre/Troll/Ork. I am even thinking making the O/T/O race six limbed and the elves a shade of blue to play into Hindu mythology. First, this allows for some degree of familiarity so that the races are not completely divergent from the expected,and, I just like those three races (grin). Second, the aliens can, perhaps be the source of humanity's older myths and folklore, perhaps having visits before and such. With regard to cyber- and bio-ware, the notion is that humanity was already on track to do these things, but the arrival of the aliens and their technology simply speeds up the process. In addition, their arrival and engineering skills with DNA help awake psychic/magic powers in humanity. One concern is that I am mixing up too many genres into one. Perhaps it would be best to leave it a post-apocalyptic setting or a cyberpunkish setting with different races. On the other hand, I really like the blending of science fiction and fantasy that is Shadowrun, so want some way of incorporating psionics/magic into the setting. Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions? Past experiences?

How finely should one parse skills? It seems that the skills listed in the book are relatively broad categories. For example, "computer skills" appears to be very broad. Lets say I want to make a computer specialist character, whether a hacker or otherwise. Is it better to represent that person's increased skill by parsing out computer skills into "hacking skills," "data search," etc, or is it better to represent the refinement by having the person simply purchase professional and knowledge skills in various computer related areas that would then be complementary to the broader computer skill?

Okay, another newb question. Can someone explain to me what the heck "skill levels" are and when you would use them? If I understand skills correctly, you can buty additional +1 to a roll anyway by spending the points; so, what is the point of skill levels? For example if I take street-wise with a +1 to the roll for 2 points, why would I take a skill level at a cost of 2 for the same +1 to a skill roll or characteristic? Alternatively, if I start taking the higher costing skill levels, which give a +1 to skills or skill categories, why would I ever need to spend points to buy +1 to a roll for those skills? For example, at 6 points, I can get +1 to all agility skills, which would be cheaper than getting +1 to six separate skills. What am I missing here?

Re: Brainstorming and what to present to players over-explanation is never a bad thing!

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) oh. duh. what did I just say about being a newb! LOL Thanks, guys!

Okay, so I've decided to create a urban cyberfantasy setting. The scale of the game will be standard heroic. As I see the Hero System as a RPG design tool, rather than universal rules ala GURPS, I am thinking that I will simply have my players buy the Hero System Basic rule book. A couple want to actually help me work on the project from the ground up and will pick up both 6e vol1 and vol2. Now, lets say I design a campaign setting, my plan is also to have concrete character creation guidelines. For example, taking the information from Character Type Guidelines Table, I would simply tell the players we are playing a standard heroic level game and you have 175 character points with 50 points in matching complications. I would then indicate that they should spend approximately 100 pts in characteristics, 85 pts in skills, perks, and talents, and 15pts in powers/equipment. In other words, I don't see any particular reason for the players to actually see the "backbone" of the system. Racial Templates seem to be a pretty easy thing to do, at least with Hero Designer, so I was planning to build racial templates for the following races: Elf, Dwarf, Ork, Ogre (never liked trolls, so a good opportunity to get away from that motif). Now, would you also build a template for humans, or would that simply be "the standard?" I like the idea of resources mentioned in the advanced player's guide, so will likely implement something like that. I noticed that in the some of the other supplements and setting books, particularly the Kazei 5 sample page I saw, the author does a great job of laying out the information in K5 terms, but also then gives the specifications in Hero System game terms. Is that a common approach or a stylistic thing? Is that a means of having an additional opportunity to check things are correct? I ask as I have seen this on Killershrike's stuff as well.

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Yep, K5 2ed is definitely on my list of what to get. I was thinking of picking up the martial arts books, but as I understand a new edition is in the works, so my plan is to wait on that one. Anyways, thanks for all the great advice and helpful recommendations. I am impressed at the level of tolerance for what are, most likely, very newbie questions. I hope that I'll be able to contribute in the future as well.

Re: Urban Fantasy Setting: Here There Be Monsters just wanted to say "thanks" for posting such an awesome discussion on building your setting. For a beginner, this is a great thread for how one should think through setting creation and the Hero System.

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? Having just perused through Urban Fantasy Hero, there is a Vampire "package" in the book, though if I understand correctly, its 5th edition. I'd just post the package here, but I'm not sure if that violates copyright rules and such.

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Ah. thanks. glad to know I'm not just delusional. I'll work with what I have for now and then get it if I need to later; though Kazei 5 may just give me the examples I need. So, I'm picking up the following books, in addition to already having vol1 and vol2, and the advanced supplement: equipment guide urban fantasy hero ultimate vehicle vehicle sourcebook post-apoc hero bestiary Anything else I should definitely grab. Oh, I have already got the hero designer software. Thanks!

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) thanks for the advice. It seems Urban Fantasy may actually provide the core basics I need for the magic aspects of the setting. very cool. With all the references, provided, its time for me to make a trip over to drivethruRPG. One thing, though. I am having a devil of a time trying to locate "Cyber Hero" does this book even exist? There is no mention of it on Drivethru and I can't find in the Herogames Online store either. I will likely pick up Kazei 5 2nd ed. when that is released, but want to get Cyber Hero. Given the scope of the Hero System, I am enthused about developing my own setting at this point. Thanks everyone.

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Thanks for the great links. My interpretation of the Hero System is that it appears to be the backbone for a roleplaying system; it appears to be more of a system for designing own's own RPG rather than simply a universal roleplaying system like GURPS, if that makes sense? Heck, with all the toolkiting advice, you can really create your own characteristics/attributes, use templates to make your own races and "character classes/archetypes," etc. One approach would be to use the Powers to design nearly everything, from magic to cyberware, to gear. Using the system, you could design everything, leave the foundation and development opaque to the players, and simply present them with the magic system and a grimoire, a technology system and the related equipment, and a list of cyberware, bioware, and weapons/gear. For example, here is a Powerball spell and this is what it does and how much damage it does. I would use the HERO mechanics to design the spell, but the players don't really need to know the underlying structure. If one does this, however, then quite frankly, it might be just as easy to completely scrap the entire Shadowrun game mechanic system and recreate a new mechanic that simply is set in the Shadowrun Universe. In this sense, one is not converting to Shadowrun, but recreating Shadowrun. Or, recreating a cyberfantasy setting. One the one hand, this sounds like damn fun; on the other, a damn lot of work.

On page 7 of volume 1, there is a reference to the Hero System Core Library. This specifically mentions the following supplemental books: Basic Rulebook Advanced Player Guide Bestiary Equipment Guide Martial Arts Vehicles I have picked up the advanced player guide. Would it be a good idea for my players to get the Basic Rulebook? Also, are the remainder of the books mentioned still pending publishing? I don't see any mention of 6th edition version of the bestiary, equipment guide, martial arts, or vehicles books on the online store.

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Thanks for the link, Grymour ... though, to toot my own horn, I had already gotten it via my google-fu. *grin* With regard to that conversion, I take it that it is based on 5th edition? Thanks for all the feedback and help. I'll need to get to downloading some of the 5th edition PDF's it seems.

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Okay. I've poured through some of the older threads on Shadowrun and cyberpunk settings and browsed through the main rules books. A few thoughts I have, and please correct me if I am wrong, as I brainstorm. The key is to preserve the shadowrun setting, not necessarily do a direct conversion of mechanics and "game play" elements. So, as I consider what is key to the setting, I see the following: a. the presence of the matrix that is accessed only by hackers b. augmented reality that is pervasive c. astral space that is easily entered by mages, perceived by some adepts, and non-existent for the mundane d. the presence of magic as shamanic and hermetic e. the presence of spirits/elementals. f. the presence of cyberware and bioware for enhancement g. the existence of fantasy races: elves, dwarves, orks, trolls, and humans. For example, when one looks at magic, it is the presence of magic in the world that defines Shadowrun, not the mechanics of how it works, per se. The existence of drain is a mechanic to limit the power of spellcasters, but if I can figure out another way to limit their power, I think that I could still maintain the shadowrun setting. Similarly, essence is a way of limiting cyberware; if I could figure out a different HERO system way of limiting cyberware, the setting would still be maintained. Does this make sense? The use of magic as shamanic or hermetic is more of a roleplaying thing in my perception. So, would it be viable to simply make a single spell system and leave the variations to roleplaying? And what of spirits? Keeping it simple, would they simply be followers with some sort of limit places on them? Cyberware as simply powers. For example, a Ares Macrotechnology Wired Reflexes Mark IV (level 3) system would be purchasing some power that gives a SPD bonus; whereas, purchasing a Fuchi Cybersystems Datajack would be purchasing a extra-dimensional travel power that allows entrance into the matrix? Although I certainly don't have the mechanics of HERO down by any means, am I at least grasping the concepts behind how I should be looking at things or am I way off base?

Re: 6th edition and dystopian future setting (shadowrun) Thanks for the quick response. On the one hand, there is something about the Hero system that grabs me more than the GURPS system (aside from the term GURPS seeming a bit odd to me); on the other, GURPS appears to have various supplements already in place for running a dystopian cyber-fantasy. If the 5e books you mentioned are viable, then this may be a moot point. You mention the character builder software. I will definitely need to pick that up.

Hello all I recently picked up the 6th edition volumes one and two. They are, to say the least, intimidatingly heavy and dense. I am currently running a Shadowrun campaign, but we do not particularly care for the game mechanics in Shadowrun. In addition, my group may venture into other genres and are considering using a generic RPG system (i.e., HERO or GURPS) that we can learn well and eventually use for other genres and settings. The only genre/setting we do not intend to use a generic system is fantasy as we like the D&D 4e system well enough. I have a number of questions regarding using the HERO system and I am hoping other users can address this. 1. Shadowrun is not a pure cyberpunk setting as it contains elements of magic. How viable is HERO for incorporating two different genres (cyberpunk and fantasy) into one campaign? 2. For those who have experience using published settings, whether shadowrun or otherwise, how easy have you found it converting over to HERO. 3. There are a number of 5th edition books that seem approrpriate for my purposes, particularly the weapons & gear supplement, the vehicles supplement, and the cyberpunk genre setting supplement. Are the 5th edition materials compatible with 6th edition. And, if not, how much conversion work is necessary? I realize that there is a conversion guide available, but is that for characters or also for setting issues? 4. Are there plans to publish a 6th edition version of the above referenced supplements? 5. Is there a source for pre-generated NPC's and such? Alternatively, I can't imagine that every NPC/Villiam is designed as a full-blown character using the full HERO system? What do experiences GM's use for designing NPC's given that only a few stats for them are usually needed for a given contact/engagement with the PC's? I ask these questions in order to gain a basic understanding/review of the system so I can decide whether we should jump full-bore into the HERO system or consider GURPS, instead. Thanks for your time!