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About PamelaIsley

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    Disaffected heroine

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  1. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? When you design a summoning power, you must specify the total point value of the thing being summoned. Besides the conceptual nightmare (that something new is being created rather than something being transformed into something different), this means that a vampire transform must either be so powerful as to represent any possible point value + the cost of the vampire template, or that the new vampire is going to lose some of its old abilities. Hence my point that summoning can only effectively represent a vampire transformation where you imagine that the result of the transformation does not contain all of the character sheet of the original target. A vampire template is added to existing abilities, that's why summoning's cap (based on the points spent on the power) does not mesh very well with what I consider a vampire transformation. I feel like this point has been made a bunch of times over the course of this thread. I think others on page 7 went into resurrection. I don't even grasp how that remotely works, so I don't have a rebuttal. Transform is clearly the power that is supposed to model this (at least my conception of a vampire transformation), but that bizarre heal back requirement means you have to change the rules to make it work. I'm not as fond of that as others.
  2. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? This is not a common vampire drawback (I'm only familiar with it in DnD rules). Even Dracula's vampire brides in the original novel had a rebellious spirit (the blonde stands up to Dracula over Harker at one point). This also isn't really part of Anne Rice or Twilight conceptions. And yes, ghost-angel was right, my goal was to build the vampire template using the rules. As I've said a few times, I've given up.
  3. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? Strange response. "You're wrong, Hero can do a vampire transformation. What Hero can't do is a generic vampire transformation." I'm not wrong. Hero can't handle this simple mechanic without hand-waving. Transform and summon both are improperly constructed to deal with a vampire transformation, unless you substantially change what most people would consider such a transformation. If you decide that a person turned into a vampire is a completely new being, with none of their old traits, then summon can work. This is not a common vampire conception. If you decide that all of the mishmash of weaknesses that have ever been mentioned are applicable (whether in combination or not) AND a vampire condition is curable, then transform will work. At least the latter is certainly not a common (or even niche) conception of a vampire transformation. Hero IS the rule set. I shouldn't have to construct exceptions to Hero's rules in order to use Hero's rule set. If I thought it was worth it, I might bring myself to research how the bizarre transform and summon generic conditions even came about, but I've given up on Hero doing what I want it to do in this case. There simply is little else to say.
  4. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? In my mind summon is not appropriate because a vampire template must be able to be applied to any character, regardless of point value, and summon has an inherent cap. If you choose to have a vampire template replace a previous character's sheet, then you could do it that way, but that would run counter to most takes on vampires. The vampire I have in mind (and the most common depiction, I would argue), adds vampire characteristics on top of a previous character. In other words, you add powers and drawbacks; you don't replace them. Healing back from a vampire transformation is an issue. If you state "miracle" as the heal-back condition, is that really any less believable than the frog transformation heal back of "kissed by a princess"? Finding a princess in any world is going to be very, very difficult. The reality, of course, is that you don't heal back from being a vampire in most takes on the concept. Most alternatives proposed here skirt the rules, bend them, or use rule constructions that strike me as bizarre. That brings me back to the point I made before: Hero really can't do a common vampire transformation mechanically. That's a shame. This comes up in a lot of genres (fantasy, pulp, superhero) and really shouldn't be this hard to construct. Even if you use the complication-heavy religious vampire concept, you still run into the heal back problem that gives people pause. And if you try to do a more "modern" take on a vampire without all the esoteric drawbacks (like garlic, running water, religious symbols), you run into the cost issue. Also, to me, points always matter. Everything must be built according to the rules and everyone must play by the same rules. Otherwise, why use a rule set at all? I don't approve of hand waving or plot devices and any system that forces you to resort to those as a matter of course (rather than convenience) is flawed. I also don't think this idea is anathema to a point balance system. It's anathema here because of some of the strange decisions Hero makes in power construction (the transform power is simply odd for a number of reasons), but it isn't incompatible with gaming in this kind of system.
  5. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? A Twilight vampire, for example, doesn't suffer from any of the common Vampire complications like running water, religious symbols, garlic, etc. So those complications can't be used to pay for the transformation.
  6. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? This is just hand waving. You could do that with every concept.
  7. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? Making the transform power cost more by increasing the cost of having an obscure heal-back condition would only complicate making a vampire. It wouldn't help much. Transform is clearly the way to do it, but the way transform functions makes it rather hard to use. A simple concept in most horror or fantasy games (vampires can create other vampires) simply can't be modeled very well by Hero without lots of pay-fors that don't fit many non-religious vampire concepts. This happened in M&M all the time too.
  8. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? The problem with building a Twilight vampire is they don't suffer from enough complications to pay for the transformation. The lowest gap I could come up with was about 80 points, which equates to 16 additional body (a lot). For this reason, this project shifted to the backburner. My vampire villain is completely done, but without a usable template to apply to his victims (and I think vampires would retain superpowers; in fact, in Twilight extraordinary character traits are made more powerful by the transformation, though I did not try to model this), there is little use for a vampire.
  9. Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E? Thanks to Panpiper for his wonderful template. It was a great help, combined with Stalker in News of the World. Edit: Nothing else to say.
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