Duane From RI

Re: What do you think of supervillain teams? The best we can do is try to tell a compelling story. If a villain group seems a bit ad hoc but it leads to a great story I for one would love it. In the recent D&D game I've been playing the GM had us come out of a major plot arc and end up in the basement of a mansion of evil mercenaries. The fact that the mercenaries were there made perfect sense. The collection of monsters gathered by this mercenary band in preparation for their attempt to take over the city made perfect sense. I hated the whole episode because it didn't have any value to the main plot of the characters (the fate of the city is not our problem) and I wasn't compelled. I wouldn't be compelled by "bank robbers of the week", even if the villain group had a well thought out background. It is more compelling to have pieces of that background integrate into the story. Consider Requiem and Frost. As leaders of a "crime spree" team they aren't much of a story. Suddenly bring Genocide into the picture and now maybe the non-mutant villains have to make decisions, the heroes have to decide whether to apprehend them and put them in harms way, mutant heroes are now going to make choices, and other more compelling stories. Another genre convention - common to every genre in my opinion - is that the sh*t doesn't hit the fan until the main characters are part of the story. A villain team could be well established before the they met the campaigns heroes - maybe a well oiled machine. But now that the heroes are on stage something goes wrong for the villain team that moves the story beyond the "stop the crime spree". It doesn't matter that a well oiled machine doesn't make sense because at the moment the heroes meet them they aren't a well oiled machine. This concept works well with uber-villains, alien invaders, demonic invaders, etc.. The wheels didn't come off the machine until the heroes were there to take advantage of it. It's all part of the "weirdness magnet" convention that cuts through so many genres.

Re: What do you think of supervillain teams? I find it an exercise in futility to attempt to apply real world logic to comic books. There are SO MANY genre conventions that don't make sense that comic books would never sell if we demanded common sense. One quick example to reinforce this particular topic: 83mm High Explosive Anti-Tank with the proper guidance system versus Eurostar. Is Fiacho really tougher than 58cm of rolled homogenous steel? Starting from 1st edition, the genre conventions that Champions forged included villain teams like The Ultimates, Eurostar, Geodesics. This really wasn't exactly like the comic books because the goal of the genre was that the heroes took the battle to the villains instead of the other way around. Island of Dr Destroyer - heroes invade a Dr D base. Deathstroke - heroes hunt down a villain team before they unleash an atrocity. Serve and Protect - hero team goes rogue and needs to be stopped. Champions isn't the only rpg to dispense with aspects of a literary genre in order to forge its own path. Call of Cthulhu the rpg had groups of investigators purposefully sticking their noses into the machinations of the Great Old Ones. Definitely not how HP Lovecraft wrote his stories. Every genre, even HP Lovecraft, has conventions that don't make sense but are part of what make that genre what it is. Since the goal of any writer is to tell a compelling story - the genre conventions should be supportive of character motivation, problem solving and other components of good story telling and not the focus of the story. I think one would find that any story where the genre conventions are the focus and the characters are there to support the genre are awful stories. Shambler from the Stars is awful - an excellent example of genre gone bad (of course Shambler from the Stars was written to poke fun at the genre conventions). ----GUSH ALERT---- I will say the beauty of HERO system is that any one of us can imagine our own genre conventions and implement them. The HERO system core rulebooks specifically tell us to take liberty and forge our stories. Is it pricey? Well, my estimation is that for $80 out of pocket you can get the two Core Books and both Player's Guides. However these are written well enough and packed with thoughts on how to tweak things that IMHO $80 is a bargain. Back that up with these forums and you can discuss house rules that will be both balanced and fit the genre you are forging. I'd say $80 is within the scope of a player and I would encourage players to become their own GMs.

Re: What do you think of supervillain teams? I guess for me it comes down to the definition of "silly". Are villain teams "silly" in that they are a gimmick to tell easy to write stories or are they "silly" in that they don't belong in a particular campaign. In the comics they are definitely gimmicks. And some comic book lines don't have them. I don't know Spawn all that well but I will say I don't know of any villain teams. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. But on the other hand they are a genre convention for Marvel and DC. If a Supers campaign has a goal of mimicking that genre than villain teams are a must. If a Supers campaign has a goal of being more like Dragonball Z then villain teams don't make sense. It comes down to what the GM is trying to present as his artistic vision and what the players are willing to play in. The Supers campaign I'm working on will not have permanent villain teams. They don't make sense given the campaign's backstory - mostly because each villain has a goal of being known specifically for the atrocities they commit. I'm not trying to capture the feel of a Marvel or DC universe. I have problems with several other comic book conventions and want a campaign that addresses those and in the process I'm villain teams are punted to make the whole backstory hang together.

Re: Chucking things into orbit - Advanced Player's Guide Regardless of whether the "Realistic" Throwing Tables in APG are correct - there is a quite memorable scene from the Hulk comics where Hulk jumps into low orbit to get away from everyone hating on him. He couldn't breath so he went ahead and came back to Earth. Numerous physics problem with the scene - but it was so comical and so "Hulk" that it still tickles my fancy.

Re: Chucking things into orbit - Advanced Player's Guide Excellent point!!!!

Re: What do you think of supervillain teams? The comic books have tons of villain teams. Most are "revenge squad" types though. Sinister Syndicate/Six, Fatal Five, Masters of Evil (most incarnations anyways), Superman Revenge Squad, Injustice Society/Gang/League, Monster Society of Evil and so on. Then there are the teams formed under a uber-villain who almost always has it out for on hero or hero group (Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Brotherhood of Evil). Comic books spend a considerable amount of ink on having villains attacking the heroes. Even the Skrulls spent tons of effort attacking the Fantastic Four instead of simply getting on with conquering the galaxy. Between these two types - I really think they way outnumber the more Champions style teams. I can think of some though - Circus of Crime, Royal Flush Gang, Justine Hammer's incarnation of the Masters of Evil. Champions always seemed to come from a different direction. The first edition example of play was Starburst and Crusader busting in on Ogre robbing a bank. My guess is that for pre-made villains, the writers of Champions didn't feel like crushing our suspension of disbelief by using the phrase "insert your player's heroes here", so the backgrounds of the villains were far more independent of any campaign particulars. In fact, if you were to count up all the villains published in 4e (I'm guessing at least 350), that's on par with DECADES of villainy of any one hero group in the comics. Backstabbing seems more common amongst ad hoc villain groups in the comics. It isn't a good idea to backstab Magneto, and I really can't think of many instances where that happened. But groups like the Sinister Six commonly fall apart because somebody begins as top dog and somebody else "knows" they can do better and besides, if the guy in charge is only getting your collective butts kicked you may as well usurp them. Villain teams give a GM the opportunity to cover many combat options without springing an overly gimmicked uber-villain. Champions villain teams really capture this concept - a little love for The Ultimates please. Many comic books also try very hard to capture this concept - the original Brotherhood of Evil mutants had a mentalist, a speedster, a probability alterer, a brick (I guess Unus can be classified as a brick) and a Toad. The Fearsome Five over in Teen Titans had a solid mix. Various incarnations of the Masters of Evil tried for variety. Note however that all three of these examples were villain teams that faced hero teams. Villain team ups against individual heroes had far less variety unless that hero had a nice variety of villains - consider the balance presented by Doc Ock, Electro and Mysterio - all frequent members of the Sinister Six. Anyways - if Champions has the goal of presenting us the chance to play like a comic book - villain teams aren't silly. The key is what your goal is for that particular story. Fearsome Five was a change of pace away from HIVE or the Brotherhood of Evil. Egghead's Masters of Evil was meant to be a goof. Justine Hammer's Masters of Evil was meant to be a villainous foil to the Thunderbolts since they were the REAL Masters of Evil simply in disguise. Villain groups allow a writer (or a GM) to present a challenge to a team without trotting out an uber-villain in every arc. Or sometimes a villain team allows the uber-villain story to be more of an onion - first you dispense with the team while the uber-villain monologues, next the uber-villain takes the field in his/her full glory. On the other hand some uber-villains have very little combat potential but tons of story potential and the team gives them oomph.

Is it me or is the calcualtions in the advanced players guide regarding throwing things into orbit all wrong? Let's take 70 STR. 70 STR can lift 400 tons (400,000 kg) barely off the ground. SO The Work done is 400,000 * 9.8 * 0.1 (10 cm) = 392,000 joules If one were to impart that energy to a 357kg mass, the resultant velocity would be a mere 47 m/s. This works out to be 224 meters down range and a max height of 56 meters. It's been two decades since I've taken any physics classes but the equations in wikipedia are pretty good at refreshing my memory. The key consideration here is potential energy and kinetic energy. A joule is a joule. The whole table doesn't make sense to me. If I can lift a 400,000 kg mass 0.1 meter off the ground, the same energy throwing a 357 kg mass straight up means the 357kg mass is only going to go 112 meters into the air. mh = mh. What am I doing wrong????

I have been carefully looking at Based On CON. Some of the villains and supporting heroes of the campaign I'm designing have biochemistry or bioelectricity special effects. So my analysis unveils a strange value disparity. Based On Con "appears" to be a lump of several other limitations. These are 1) OCV vs DCV (ACV -0) 2) Versus PD or ED, choose when the power is bought (AVAD -1) 3) Normal Range (-1/4) 4) Subject to Range Modifiers (-1/4) 5) Obvious (-1/2) If a player wanted to implement all these limitations and still have effect level figured from EGO, they would get a -2 limitation. So QUESTION - how does Based On CON, which includes drastic limitations to range and resistance end up at -1? Consider this: Of the first 57 villains in Champions Villain 3 Solo Villains (A thru G), 41 have a CON four points or more higher than EGO and about 4 others have a CON and EGO very close or equal. Clearly having effect level determined by CON is no advantage.

Re: A House Rule for Healing - Might this Blow Up in my face? A couple of the warnings I am hearing are 1) Dickering with Healing (BODY) can seriously diminish the deadliness of the campaign 2) Dickering with Healing (STUN) can render mooks unimportant Any more warnings - these two are pretty good but I'd like to hear more.

Based On Con seems to lump together a group of limitations including ACV, AVAD, Obvious and Subject to Range Modifier. However, some creative powers might be created from AVAD and have effect levels according to CON but not the other two limitations. For example a pheromone power might still be invisible or a bioelectric power might still be Line of Sight. When building such powers should the build start with Based On Con and then add advantages OR break the limitations out separately? NATURAL FOLLOW UP - if one breaks the limitations out separately they don't "seem" to add up to -1. ACV is -0, AVAD is -1, Obvious is -1/2 and Subject to Range Modifier is -1/4. What is the appropriate cost for shifting away from Ego to Con? Is this the hidden factor that makes it come out to -1?

The new Advanced Players Guide 2 offers two clarification to Based On Con that have me a little confused. First - the APG2 clarifies that Mental Powers with Based On Con can be affected by Sense Affecting attacks. However, the only two "senses" in the Mental Group are Mental Awareness and Mind Scan. Question - is the clarification specifically for Mental Awareness and Mind Scan and possibly any Detect built on the premise of the mind that are limited by Based On Con OR is there something I'm missing and Mind Control et al can somehow be affected? Second - the APG2 clarifies that Mental Powers with Based On Con can affect desolid targets. What would be the appropriate cost for an additional limitation to a Based On Con attack that would not make it work versus desolids?

Can a character do a Move By and use 0 STR in the attack? Can a character make a Grab and use 0 STR in the attack?

The campaign I am toying with is meant to be played with hardcore MMO and D&D guys. One of the things many systems other than HERO have is tons of healing and I want to incorporate that. However since there are warnings about Healing in the 6E book, I figured I get opinions before I went that way. I especially don't want something that would explode in my face at a later date forcing a house rule to a house rule. So, here is a little analysis on my part. In a normal HERO campaign, a character that spends 30 points on healing can each ally up to 18 Stun per day. A character that buys Damage Negation (2 levels Physical, 2 levels Energy)-Usable by up to 4 others-Grantor pays the END-Grantor Can “Take Back”(UUO total +3/4)-Costs END to activate (active cost 35 real cost 28) can give a defense to his allies that will stop 7 or so STUN of every physical and energy attack. That will surely add up to far more than 18 STUN per day per ally. A character that buys Aid REC (3d6)-Five Min Fade Rate (active and real cost 30) can allow each ally to regain 6 STUN per recovery taken. Even assuming this is just every turn, that is certainly going to exceed by far 18 STUN each day per ally. On the other hand if the Default Duration for Re-Use of Healing were 1 Turn, 30 pts of Healing would heal 10 to 13 STUN per ally per turn. QUESTION to the GALLERY: What are the pitfalls of changing the Default Duration for Re-Use of Healing? Assume that the goal of the GM is to be healing intensive and to create a healing archetype character.

On page 233 there is an example of Healing on a per injury basis involving Hemdring and Brother Mikael. Brother Mikael has 2d6 of Simplified Healing. Should the example rolls given be halved on their effect because STUN and BODY are defenses? Or is Simplified Healing an exception to the Halving rule?

Sorry if this was answered years ago, I sort of "thought I knew" the answer for a long time but have recently begun to rethink it. Anyways... The default rule is that a character can only be Healed of a particular characteristic once per day by each individual healer. However the paragraphs on Maximum Effect seem to indicate that an individual can perform multiple healings of the same target but must 1) Beat his previous rolls and 2) Only heal to a particular max. Is repeated healing allowed with the restrictions of maximum effect or is repeated healing out of bounds entirely?

Activating a Trigger can be bought as an Action that takes no time. A character who is Knocked Out cannot take any Actions except recovery. Does this preclude a character from building a power that goes off even if he is unconcious? Let me use an example - A character called Paint It Green has a power that gives off an Awful Smell (Flash versus Smell and Taste - we are talking so awful you can taste it) every time someone touches either of his index fingers. The player wants this to happen even if he is Knocked Out. Is this construct possible?

I recently bought Champions Powers. I was going over the various forms of Entangle that take no damage from attacks. I noticed that Crippling Depression is listed with a range of LOS. I suspect this is an error that could use some errata. I don't think Alternate Combat Value changes the range. As an example, Telepathic Time Stop and Mental Paralysis both are entangles with ACV and both have a range other than LOS.

Summon can be used to summon a vehicle - for example a Mecha. I have a few questions: 1) Take for example the Power Rangers - they Summon a mecha every episode. Is that a specific vehicle? Must you repair it if it is damaged? Can you rebuild it at a rate of 1 Body per day? 2) Summon is supposed to bring its being into the nearest unoccupied space. Does the GM have the option of allowing a Mecha to arrive and the summoner already be in it or do you recommend a triggered/linked teleport? 3) A summoned being that is Slavish Devoted is limited to summoners Ego/1 tasks. What does a Mecha do when the number of tasks runs out? Can the summoner pay END again and keep continuity? Must the Mecha become disoriented a phase every time the task limit is reached? 4) From a special effect point of view, Ego may not be the most reasonable attribute for determining a Mecha task limit. Is the GM free to propose something else? Would you recommend a advantage/limitation for using Inteligence?

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane I have thoroughly looked at VPP. It is feasible once I wrap my brain around HKA with Advantage vice HKA compunded with Drain. 100 Active Points of an HKA with Advantage is far more dangerous in this campaign then 100 Active Points split between an HKA and a Drain. The only way to introduce Linked in a VPP is with compound powers. Without Linked, separate attack rolls are required. Of course as GM, I can specify the max DC of any one attack or the max DC of a primary and secondary attacks in a compound. Truth is even if I go as free-form as possible I have to do that anyways. A further complication is Martial Manuevers - use them or not. Melee-ists that can analogize to weapons can Martial Manuever with the FMove element. Melee-ists with HTH effects and Spell Casters (including Touching Spells) can not utilize the FMove element. Of course Combat Running while more expensive than the FMove element is nonetheless 9 measly points. I figured I'd at least think about the Multiform in a VPP concept. I was looking at it more as a guideline as to what is reasonably the maximum ceiling of flexibility. My assessment is that with no more than 212 points, probably less, a character can have as many power configurations as the GM is willing to put up with.

Re: Attack powers usable with Move-Bys and Move-Throughs? I have thoroughly read and read move-by. Not so much move through. I have sent a question or two to Steve, and his answers reinforced the text of the books. Move-by can be done with either Strength or a Weapon. Furthermore, Move Through specifically says that it can't be done with attacks that represent an HTH Combat effect (6e2 72) unless they are weapons. You might use some advantaged version of Strength only if the GM can analogize it to a weapon. No Range powers are only valid if common sense indicates they are a weapon. One question I asked Steve, is a magic wand that requires touch a weapon, and he replied no. Consider Martial Manuevers, correct me if I'm wrong but they aren't allowed in a Move-by either. An AOE advantage on Strength can easily be analogized as a Martial Effect and would be just as out-of-bounds as Offensive Strike. The same rules apply to the FMove element as near as I can tell. On the other hand, there is Trigger. A No Action, Immediate Reset combined with the Trigger condition "Character flies within arms reach of a foe". Touch expensive maybe but doable. With this trigger condition you don't do a Move-by, you simply do a move and the Trigger goes off. I have also been looking at Area Effect Any Area, No Range. Once an Area Effect is no range, it is mobile enough to track with you. Define the area as a 4m arc in front and zoom-zoom. Or how about Area Effect Radius Accurate Time Limit Extra Phase. Now for one full phase the AoE is equivalent to constant and as you zoom along the Accurate allows you to pick a target. My belief is that you could make one attack per 1m moved (new area, equivalent of constant, ergo one accurate attack).

Re: Total NEWB question - Throwing Badger If you throw a Honey Badger, I think you need to do a little wonkery. It needs to be a Unbreakable Focus. The damn thing ain't going to stop for simple deterrents like poison or the threat of being run over. Nothing short of animal effecting magic is going to stop the thing.

Re: Total NEWB question - Throwing Badger Look at the TEETH on that thing! Its a small mouth, sure, so 1d6 KA seems appropriate. But damn, those teeth sure look like that Armor Piercing may be appropriate.

Re: Total NEWB gushing over how amazing this forum is I'm fairly certain inflicting Lycanthropy requires a Severe Transform, both body and mind, maybe spirit. That way you give them a No Conscious Control Multiform power and Accidental Change. Probably need to do Damage Over Time, it takes at least one full lunar cycle. Then the Multiform has vulnerable to silver, enraged/beserk. As a GM I would encourage a Werewolf player character to work some beneficial aspects to the curse and would probably do the same if I were making a NPC Werewolf to bite a player. I think a common trope in todays Werewolf stories is the Werewolf tends to get the girl. One thing I'm thinking as I'm sitting here is that the body and mind Transforms can be healed through some sort of ritual, but the spirit transform is something that heals over time. Thus enraged/beserk may disappear.

Re: VPP/Multiform - Assume GM is Insane I agree that super flexibilty will allow the players to exploit any weakness. Each character may need to come up with his own Special Effect based on class/race/equipment but that's not hard: Example A Sword carrying/Savate Kicking Speedster could make sparks jump from his swords The Wizard may know the Truename of a Fire Elemental The Spellsinger sings of the power of the Sun The Priest of the Lion Goddess takes on aspects of her goddess' desert connection (see Sekhmet) However I like that idea. I let the players know a session before that they will be visiting Niflhiem and then let them cogitate. All the Ice Trolls will be vulnerable to heat, sure, that gives me the GM the license to make the environment tougher, put more of them out there, put a mini-boss in early, or otherwise get creative with some other aspect of danger yet still feel confident that the critters themselves are vulnerable enough that I won't TPK.

Re: Help a Fellow With OCD! Need UltMystic, NinjaHero5ed and Fantasy Grimoire II in Thank you! Actually I think my obession will be satisfied by Hero System Grimoire.