TheRealVector

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

The issue with the Player #3 type is that he does things and then goes, "I should be able to do that, I have Wealth", when it's more for things that he doesn't have the XP to buy right away.

 

 

Also, I openly admit part of my issue is that one of his characters used his Wealth to buy lawyers to defeat one of my characters in a lawsuit, after he took my gadgeteer's research on the alien nanotech and put it out on the Internet for anyone to use... including my character's derivative research on how to shut down the nanotechnology.

If your fellow players are using the Wealth perk to buy those things that should (per the Hero rules) need the expenditure of XP then this is a problem. A problem your GM should fix with one little magic word - NO.

See. How easy was that? Just don't let the player do these things without spending the appropriate XP. And if he doesn't use a fancy sports car or his jet to directly fight the bad guys then I don't think he should have to pay any points for his "flavor text" lifestyle. Hiring good lawyers sounds like a legitimate use of the Wealth perk.

As for the nanotech disaster: Guess poor little plebs like your character best not F@!K with the Big Boys cause you'll get spanked. Maybe you should have a talk with his character when his lawyers aren't around!

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Man' date=' what kind of sadistic jerkwad GMs have you had? You seem actively hostile to GMs as a class.[/quote']

 

Actually, I'm the primary GM in our group and have been for years. I have no more hostility to the GM class than I have for the Player class (I despise each equally LOL). But, having been playing and GM'ing since the late '70s I've seen the worse the hobby can offer. Therefore, I love to take the vantage point of the stereotypical idot adversarial GM to make a point counter to what it appears I'm advocating. It's almost like...satire?

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Umm... why not? Having someone be the best in the worlsd at something is completely in genre. Afterall' date=' the Hulk is the strongest one there is, the Flash is the fastest man alive, Batman is the world's greatest detective, Dr. Strange is the sorceror supreme... why can one of your PCs be the absolute best in the world at something? Afterall, this is not real life (where, yes, there is always somebody better; if not now, eventually), it is superhero comic book-style RPGs.[/quote']

 

Why can't one of the PC's be the absolute best in the world? Are you insane man!! What would happen if GMs across the world started letting their players live out their fantasies and having unbridled fun?!

 

These players aren't here to play any role they desire. How foolish, don't they know the disastrous consequences this sort of thinking could have on GMs plots/world/good time?

 

And besides, I love the look of bewildered disappointment that washes across their face when I tell them no.

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

The problem is that those who go "ooh, shiny" are really very annoyingly shinychasing, and it drives those of us that more want it for the purposes of "well that explains x y and z on my sheet in a sane and rational manner" rather mad. I am one of those with the madness; Balabanto is as well, just a tad more that way.

I still don't see what the real problem is here. It's starting to sound like a simple case of envy. Really pathetic envy. Why do you care if other characters are rich?

If the game is being run according to the Hero system rules then all that wealth really amounts to is flavor text and plot hooks. GMs should like easy plot hooks, right? As for flavor text...

GM: "OK, guys you've defeated the villain's latest mad schemes...what now?

Player #1 (Wealth Perk 5 pts): "I'm meeting some friends for a few beers and then I'm heading back to my basement lab to work on some modifications to my latest gadgets."

Player #2 (No Wealth Perk): "Uh oh, this fight took longer than I hoped. I need to come up with an excuse why I've been on a three and a half hour lunch break. I guess I better get back to work and speak with my boss. If that goes well then later it's back to my crummy apartment"

Player #3 (Wealth Perk 15 pts): "After changing back into my secret ID of billionaire playboy I'll have my chauffer drive me to my waiting jet and them immediately fly to my private island in the caribbean for my secret rendevous with Angelina Jolie. I'm hoping the thirty million dollar diamond pendant I'm giving her will finally lure her away from that Pitt jerk."

So who cares what Player #3 does. Would that make you feel inadequate or something? Just flavor text with really not many more plot hooks than the nine to five joe who has to juggle his secret ID with his job.

Maybe some of the people in your campaign just need to lighten up and stop worrying about the other guy. If the GM really doesn't like it why doesn't he just tell the player to get the hell out of his game? He apparently has forty-nine other players.

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

An alternative approach would be to let the two 15 point Wealth characters start this fiscal war' date=' and ask each how much of their wealth they're prepared to commit (sealed bids - you only get one chance). You both roll a Business Skill (you DO have appropriate business skills, don't you?) modified at -1 per point of Wealth committed. The winner wipes out the loser, but also loses points in Wealth that he bid. Let's say Wealth points recover at 1 point per season as you cash in illiquid investments and generate investment returns.[/quote']

 

Great idea! Can I use it in my new Billionaires & Businessmen genre book? LOL

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

How about a game of HERO Monopoly?

 

Bill.

(Dr. Destroyer just put a hotel on Boardwalk! If anyone lands there, they're dooooooomed!)

That idea's just so crazy it might work! LOL

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Wealth 15 points - The player starts with $15 billion and can spend an additional character point for each additional billion. The GM and player will then track all expenses (everything; even if the tech guy spends character points on a new jetpack you make him also spend $17' date='000,000 on reaserch and development) and income (income due to job, investments, patents, land speculation, business deals, etc.). As the campaign unfolds the character could gain further wealth or even lose it all, but never get his fifteen points back. Same basic system for the lesser Wealth perk. [/quote']

 

Of course, if you use a system like that you will likely find yourself playing a game of Billionaires & Businessmen. But you'll know who is truely the richest player in your game.

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Since there seems to be some sort of bizarre obssession/fear of wealth in the games you run (how do you feel about wealthy people in real life? LOL) you could just jump right outside the box and house rule the problem.

It appears that your take on the Wealth perk is not in sync with either the Hero System rules or the superhero genre.

If you have to know who has more of what just rethink the Wealth perk from the ground up. Skipping ahead to the most expensive Wealth perk...

Wealth 15 points - The player starts with $15 billion and can spend an additional character point for each additional billion. The GM and player will then track all expenses (everything; even if the tech guy spends character points on a new jetpack you make him also spend $17,000,000 on reaserch and development) and income (income due to job, investments, patents, land speculation, business deals, etc.). As the campaign unfolds the character could gain further wealth or even lose it all, but never get his fifteen points back. Same basic system for the lesser Wealth perk.

Not at all in genre (and I would never do this myself) but maybe something like this could prevent future problems.

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Uh' date=' yes, I do. Trust me, I work in retail. There is absolutely no supervision whatsoever, and I'm on a commission sales floor. You could tell your manager that "My pet donkey needs to be walked, and my spouse can't do it today" and if it's not stupidly busy, they'll probably let you go.[/quote']

 

Oh, is that how things work on your planet? Interesting...

 

Here on Earth things work a little differently. LOL

 

 

 

I don't really care what you do in your campaign so why don't you just tell your players that your going to determine what characters are allowed/required the Wealth perk and have done with it? Your the GM, do what you want.

You can lose your players, continue being frustrated by their wealth, or maybe they'll stay in your game and be frustrated themselves?

Re: Help with player knowledge vs. character knowledge

For anyone who was curious...

As we approached within 100 meters (50") Gorgon and the Chicago PD we were allowed to make Intelligence rolls with -4 penalty at the beginning of combat. I failed to make the connection but our group's mentalist, Wisdom, succeeded. A good thing to, since the -8 range penalty was a problem for Vector anyway. Wisdom's ego attack was another matter.

As Gorgon was reeling from the mental attack and unable to finish his stomp (I don't think he had much, or any, Mental Defense) our Chi manipulating martial artist, Wraith, half moved and sent a Bola formed Chi energy attack (ED Energy Blast) that hit home and knocked poor Gorgon on his butt.

Still phase twelve and I can finally go. Being overconfident I fly in noncombat speed to a hex adjacent to the now prone Gorgon. As soon as segment two or three roll around I'm expecting to be jumped, while half DCV, by other Inhumans who have been hiding nearby. Doesn't happen. Are we going to be this lucky. Vector uses a telekinetic grab to secure Gorgon. Now Penance, our Vampiric nun working for a secret Vatican organization (don't ask) is close enough to make eye contact and use her vampiric charm to put him in a more cooperative frame of mind.

Soon we are back at Vanguard base (the top several floors of the Sears Tower) with our captive and Penance and Wisdom discover that Gorgan has been under the influence of a powerful mind control. Just as they begin working together to free Gorgon's mind we are paid an unexpected visit by a number of X-Men (Logan, Storm, Rogue, Iceman, Collossus, Shadowcat, and Nightcrawler).

Once everyone has assembled in our conference room an irate Logan accuses one of our members, Catacomb, of breaking into the X-Mansion, trashing Xavier's study, and leaving a warning to "stay out of this". Since Catacomb is our loner, loose cannon, Spawn wannabe (we love you Catacomb!) I (Vector) has no idea what to make of the security video that Storm shows us. Could Catacomb have done something so crazy for reasons we can only guess at? Was the attack faked? Was he under some form of mind control (he is very hard to mind control)?

Apparently, our answers aren't satisfying Logan and some of the other more impulsive X-Men. Things start to escalate. Storm tries to calm her fellow X-Men while Penance does her best to cam Waith and I. I'm getting a little tired of this Canadian runt throwing accusations in my face.

Clearly, whoever is behind this divide and conquer strategy is very pleased.

The session ends right before things get real exciting. I'm going to do my best to resist putting an "Authority" style beat down on the X-men. That is, if Storm doesn't fry me first!

I imagine we'll all make up and get to the bottom of it all before the end.

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

Home run Kirby! I think you summed up the problems best. Now I got nothing to say...LOL

Re: Richest Man in the World Disease

The other issue is that if all of the supers have all of the money, eventually all of the normals are going to get pissed off.

What? The economy is not a zero sum game, how would a handful of rich supers monopolize wealth in your campaign world?

Re: Help with player knowledge vs. character knowledge

Even without knowledge, isn't the tactic of lifting someone into the air a good one? Do you use it a lot to capture without injuring? Seems like a good, general plan when faced with the unknown - (a) it's a good scare tactic (PRE attack bonus) ( non-fliers and normal STR individuals are helpless © pick 'em up high enough and even high STR characters won't want to fall.

 

So maybe you do it just because?

I do use that tactic a lot with TK. I even bought Flight 10" Usable On Others, Usable As Attack when I saw the idea in the UNTIL Superpowers Database book. I try not to use it very often as it makes me feel...dirty

I mostly use it to annoy the Juggernaught when we meet. Otherwise we just go around and around until I start to run out of Endurance. He never does

Re: Help with player knowledge vs. character knowledge

Thanks for all the good input. The game is this Sunday and I'll ask for an Intelligence roll at whatever penalty the GM says is appropriate.

If he rules that there is no way for me to know, roll or not, then I'll certainly go with that. I wasn't looking for ammunition for an argument, just wanted to see if how I viewed the situation made sense to other gamers. If I was behind the big screen in this circumstance I would rule that an Intelligence roll was needed to make the connection.

I'll post an update after the game if anyone is curious to hear how it turned out. I bet Gorgon isn't the only Inhuman nearby.

Re: Help with player knowledge vs. character knowledge

No insult was intended, and I'm sorry that you took it that way. My response was serious. There are many games where, if the player fails to act on every piece of knowledge available to him, he will be placed at a serious disadvantage which may lead to unwanted consequences. You may be playing in such a game -- I don't know you, and I don't know your GM. If you are playing in such a game, then yes, you should act on your OOC knowledge. The GM expects it (otherwise, he wouldn't have set up the scene that way), and may penalize you if you don't.

 

If, on the other hand, you are not playing in such a game, then don't act on it. It's flavor. Gorgon will stamp his foot, all the windows in a three block radius will shatter, the cops will tumble to the ground, and the fight will begin.

 

You know your GM better than any of us do. If your character starts with a soliloquy instead of a punch, will hundreds die? If so, then it's in keeping with the game to attack. Otherwise, I'm not sure why one would interpret "raising his leg" as "he's the cause of the earthquakes" rather than "he looks like a bull, he's probably going to charge me."

Thanks for the clarification. As you might guess from my response to the idea of using OOC knowledge to get an advantage we run a game where that is frowned upon, not expected.

Our Marvel campaign is run with a strong dash of "realism" so the earthquake has already killed scores, if not hundreds. Since the Inhumans have declared war on humanity (I know they are being manipulated but my character has no way of knowing that).

I need to check with the GM to ascertain the government’s response. We were monitoring communications as we flew back from the Himalayas and we would have heard if the U.S. had declared war also. If so then the kid gloves will come off (we are rather fond of the citizens of Chicago).

Even so my intentions, if the GM allows my character to connect Gorgon with the earthquakes, is to immediately use telekinesis to lift Gorgon off the ground or, if I I'm far enough away to likely miss, lift the chunk of city street he is standing on. Then we want to capture and question Gorgon.

Vector will consider this a good opportunity to gather intelligence and I hope it will lead to discovering who is manipulating the Inhumans. Player knowledge and character knowledge hopefully working in sync.

Re: Help with player knowledge vs. character knowledge

Depends. Do you play a "GM vs. the Players" type of game? If so' date=' sure, use your non-character knowledge. If not, then no, don't.[/quote']

 

You have missed the point of the question and managed to insult me at the same time. LOL Don't worry, I can take it. And if your entire response was sarcastic intended to make a humorous point about adversarial role-playing styles, then I apologize.

 

I am not asking if I should "cheat" or try to get away with an unfair advantage. I have no interest in ever playing that way nor do I think it is us vs. the GM.

 

I am asking if one thinks it's reasonable for an experienced super hero to make the connection with the obviously "unnatural" natural disasters that occurred simultaneously with the Inhumans declaration of war, Chicago's earthquakes (an area not exactly known for earthquakes, and the mysterious mutant-like (he has hoof feet) hostile stranger who is about to make a big dramatic stomp.

 

Is it bleeding obvious? Do you think an Intelligence roll is needed and with what kinds of modifications? Do you think it's simply too hard a connection to make for the character under the circumstances?

 

I wanted some outside opinions because sometimes we can all be too involved in our characters to see how things really are. I don't want to make an unreasonable decision as a courtesy to the GM.

 

A big thanks to those who have shared their perspectives with me.

Re: KISS vs MEPD

Ooh, people I don't know and will never meet might be calling me stupid! The horror! I'm going to get real mad and then go have a cry.

Sheesh, stupid people. [shrugs] What can you do?

Normally this is no problem for me, but I want to get some opinions here to make sure I'm seeing things objectively. So, thanks in advance.

Game Background: Playing in a Champions game that is set in an amalgam of early "classic" Marvel universe and Marvel's Ultimate universe set in 2007. Spiderman is a dorky highschool kid, the Fantastic Four are the first family of superheroes, the X-men are still in school, we have the Ultimates instead of Avengers, Gwen Stacy hasn't yet had her date with the Brooklyn Bridge and Jean Grey is still Marvel Girl (and when she dies in my campaign she will stay dead!). And then there is our group Vanguard, based in Chicago.

The main point of all this is that when I, or one of the other GMs, runs a scenario with, for example, the Superskrull for the fist time it is the first time in the game world. We won't know anything about him and who are these Skrulls anyway? And, wow, I'm amazed to see actually proof of extraterrestial life!

Character Background: My character, Vector, is a mutant who was taken in by a "Brotherhood of Mutants" like organization when he was fifteen and trained to be a mutant rights terrorist/soldier/covert operative. Long story short, he defected to the good guy side in his early twenties. Vector possesses the skills "knowledge of the superhuman world", which could be relavent. He is considered an "experienced" super adventurer.

Scenario: The Inhumans have just made their first appearance in out game, under unfortunate circumstances. Long story short again, the Inhumans have declared war upon humanity. This declaration was soon followed by a series of devastating "natural disasters" upon the world, particularly the U.S. Chicago was hit by a massive earthquake and we spent the last session digging for survivors, stopping runaway trains, and putting out highrise fires. The session ended with Vanguard answering a call for help from the Chicago PD. As we aproached the area we saw a strange character surrounded by SWAT and PD, their guns drawn. The GM passed around a picture and I (the player) recognized the character as Gorgon, an Inhuman who can create shockwaves and earthquakes by stamping his hoof-like feet. The last thing the GM said before ending the game for the night was, "As you approach you see the stranger raise his right leg into the air..."

Question: Vector has no idea who these Inhumans are or what they are capable of. My knowlege of the Superhero World won't help directly, but I think it is reaonable to say I've seen a lot of strange abilities/mutations and have a basic knowledge of how some of them work.

Given the earthquake and the provacative way in which this stange hoof footed character raises his leg is it reasonable for Vector's first move to one which would prevent contact of said foot with the ground? Could Vector easily (or with Intelligence roll) make that leap of logic. I, the player, can't help but know what Gorgon can do, but I don't want that to color Vector's actions unfairly. What do you guys think?

Re: KISS vs MEPD

1. I utterly LOATHE the acronym: KISS' date=' that extra 'S' is ridiculously contrived and makes no sense, unless it is as some sort joke. Thing is, jokes are meant to be funny at SOME point in their life cycle. Moreover, you do not persuade someone to your POV (see: it isn't acronyms in general, just this one) by insulting them. I can't think of a level it does work on, although enough people seem to like it that I must be missing something.[/quote']

 

Sir, please do not take it personally that some people might think you are stupid, ignorant subhuman scum just because of the way you prefer to play Hero. Or you could tell them to KISS your #$!

Re: WWYCD?: The blatant-ening.

The Internet is for porn... and evil?

 

It all makes sense now...

**Dr. Zoidberg Voice** "Porn! What! When did this happen! Where do you find it! Somebody tell meeee!"

That's a joke above, please no one try to tell me.

Re: WWYCD?: The blatant-ening.

I deserve that for getting baited into that mess in the first place. Good to know something productive came out of it for someone

My gratitude was sincere. You see, I'm evil and take sustenance from conflict.I have embraced the fact that the internet (and online forums in particular) are a place of anonymity fueled immaturity, ignorance, bile, and hate. If I could only figure how to work death into that list of woes I would be even happier. If we could somehow strip the place of it's anonymity a bet we could generate lots more forum fueled violence.

Mmmm, your souls taste like peeps, can't eat just one.

Re: WWYCD?: The blatant-ening.

Oh, and by the way, thank you Nexus and Pendaron for relieving my boredom here at work for the five minutes it took to read your posts. Classic!

Re: WWYCD?: The blatant-ening.

It's clear that the original poster has no concept of the power of Vector or he would realize his little scenario is doomed.

Re: Code vs Killing (Total)

We wouldn't want our disadvantages to put us at any disadvantage' date=' would we? That would make them disadvantageous! [/quote']

 

So Hugh, is your disadvantage being unable to tell when tongue is being placed firmly in cheek? We need a sarcasm font.

Re: Cluttered Universes

I agree the Marvel Universe is very cluttered (as is DC). I run a game that is set in a heavily modified version of the MU. I have essentially taken the things I like best from the classic runs of my favorite books and characters and mixed them in with the things I like from the Ultimate Marvel books. In the process I cleared a lot of the clutter out.

In my game there is Spiderman, the Ultimates, the Fantasitc Four, the X-Men (with more classic/limited roster instead of a membership consisting of every damn mutant on the planet) and the player own super group, Vanguard, based in Chicago.

This way I can introduce "new" villians and plots into the game and not be burdened down by forty years of continuity. For example the only aliens known of in my game are the Skrulls and Galactus. We got to meet them for the first time and create our own continuity. I thing by the end of the sixties there were already scores of aliens in the Marvel Universe. It seemed alien invasion was a very popular storyline.

If I don't want any Olympus, Micronauts ,Godzilla, Dracula, Rom, SpaceKnight,

Conan the Barbarian I don't have to have them. Keep your Universes, like your plots, lean and mean.