TheRealVector

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

Hm... Superman does that more than the Hulk, generally

 

So basically, the Punisher never kills undercover cops because the writer and/or artist doesn't understand physics?

Or because they don't understand analogies? One or the other.

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

I've always been amazed that the Punisher's never killed an undercover cop. Even when he's machine-gunned an entire night-club full of bad guys' date=' not one is an undercover agent.[/quote']

 

And I'm always amazed when the Hulk picks up a massive structure by one relatively tiny point and the whole thing doesnt crumble in his grasp.

 

Maybe in a weird way the same principle is at work in both cases? Hmmm?

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

If Bernhard Goetz had SUBDUED four people with his fists instead of shooting them with a gun' date=' there wouldn't have been nearly as big an outcry.[/quote']

 

That would have been an impressive feat for a man of Goetz build and skills. LOL!

Re: Top Eleven Adversaries of Arnold

While the idea of the list is great, the execution leaves a little to be desired.

How can a robotic cab driver beat out Ronny Cox's portrayal of Total Recall's main baddie: the glorious bastard Vilos Cohaagen?

Re: Disturbing Character premises...

This is the Disturbing Character premises thread' date=' not the Distubing Reality thread. Not that I disagree with your assessment, mind.[/quote']

 

 

Sounds like I owe the thread another on topic post.

 

We had a player play a shape-shifting type character called Shyft. Not inherrently disturbing but he would too often use terms such as "tendrils" or "tentacles" where simple stretching or extra limbs were needed. We thought we were getting a Mr. Fantastic clone but instead got a frik'n H. P. Lovecraft reject.

 

We weren't disappointed when the player changed characters.

Re: Disturbing Character premises...

It's one thing to apply social pressure, it's another to do so forcibly.

 

It's the matter of choice and free will, ne?

LOL! Stray too far outside accepted norms and social pressure will morph into the use of force in hardly no time at all.

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

There's no way to say this without sounding offensive, so you'll have to take my word for it that no offense is meant when I say, that's a pretty naive way of looking at the effects of media, especially on women, for whom physical attractiveness is culturally considered a major determiner of "worth," as it were (for better or worse).

 

As discussed in another thread, Western culture makes beauty a major commendable trait for women, while considering it secondary at best for men (to bravery, strength, etc). Beautiful women are fawned over, pursued, etc. Beautiful women in the media are paid millions of dollars as models just to... you know, stand there and look pretty. The covert message is far more important than the overt message - claim all you want that intellect is more important than appearance, when a society is willing to pay millions to a brainless nitwit who's hot and still only pays teachers thirty grand a year, the message is pretty clear.

 

Not to mention our own psychological tendencies - it's a very robust experimental result that we wind up attributing all kinds of moral characteristics like trustworthiness, niceness and so on to prettier people (unconsciously, but that only makes it more powerful). Bottom line, the young girl who sees her more attractive peers getting more attention and more power, who sees the women on TV getting millions of dollars and the (ostensibly) desirable mates, who sees just how much this culture revolves around the structuring of women as beautiful objects of desire - she gets the message loud and clear, too. If she's not pretty, she's not worth anything. I could go on in this vein, but since the tie between aesthetic and moral characteristics, especially in terms of female beauty, is part of my thesis work, you really don't want me to.

 

Back to gaming - I ran an Aberrant game where this came up big time. Aberrant actually has superhuman levels of appearance and charisma that have game-mechanical parity with superhuman strength and agility and so on, and thus, once the world got over the shock of superhumans emerging suddenly, the "super pretty" people became the new standard of beauty. I mean, really, if Madonna, who has only human-possible levels of charisma could start a sweeping fashion trend in the 80s (albeit with the help of MTV, but don't tell me the media won't be complicit with superwomen, either), then people with actual SUPER beauty and charisma can do much more. When one of these super-pretty-people changed her hair, the world responded in days. When one of the super-charismatic guys declared he thought baggy shorts were stupid, the industry nosedived. The effects of genuine superhuman levels of charisma and appearance would be amazing, and more than a little disturbing.

 

A lot of the superwomen, though, would actually be "healthier" looking than the average supermodel. Supermodels routinely carry less body fat than athletes. Weirdly enough, it would take one or more super-fit and literally super attractive female superheroes, I think, to turn the tide of beauty to "fit" rather than "freakishly thin." Otherwise, they're basically hot athletes, and even though there are some of those, they haven't yet made it cool or trendy for a girl to be toned and muscular rather than emaciated. It would take a real cluster of really attractive, really fit superheroines, or a couple of really fit ones with superhuman appearance, to overcome the cultural inertia, I think.

Great post, and it got me thinking. When you wrote "As discussed in another thread, "Western culture makes beauty a major commendable trait for women..." you inspired a question.

Is beauty not valued in Eastern cultures? For example, since I'm no sinologist I'm not sure, were Chinese men quite content with the ugliest mates until contact with Western culture? Or were the people of India just looking for mates with a good personality until the modern era?

As for the thread topic, the answer is all around us. We already live in a world with a minority of beautiful people swimming in a sea of the plain and hideous. If there were suddenly super attractive heroes it would just be a difference in degree, not in kind.

Re: Disturbing Character premises...

This is what we subject children to? We're telling them that it's okay to forcibly reprogram somebody because their outlook doesn't conform to somebode elses worldview.

Well, parents do it to their children while they're at home and their teachers do it while they're in school and thier peers do it while they're on the playground.

Aaaah!! The Care Bears are everywhere!

On topic: We had one player who wanted his next character to be a little old man mentalist in a mech.

Re: When did [Title X] Jumping the Shark

Here you go Mr. Evil

Mary Sue-Ism

Thanks for the info. Scary stuff.

For me the X-Titles jumped the shark when every other plot point/character was from the future.

Re: When did [Title X] Jumping the Shark

2) Mary-Sue-ism became more and more prevalent.

Not familiar with "mary-sue-ism. Could you please enlighten me?

Re: Mars has water!

Mars has water.

Mars still needs women.

Re: This is why I play Fantasy Hero

I think players should be encouraged to be creative with their prose (and be rewarded for adding to the game), but that it should never be a constant flow of romance novel class descriptors. A short description with one or two clauses can be just as dramatically apropos as a long one with many clauses (e.g., the purposeful purple prose I propounded). Its a question of feel and timing, and there is a learning curve involved.

 

I do agree that GMs need to be fair, but at the same time I think many people are paranoid about "Bad GMs" and treat the dice and rules as a "woobie." I see a lot of that on the boards and just because we've all run across a bad GM or two in our day (myself included) doesn't mean all GMs need a perfectly objective straight-jacket to keep them from turning into a frothing dictator. We've all run across power-gamers too, but I learned I could trust my players to respect the game, the genre, and consider the whole group in terms of play experience. So too most GMs.

 

In general, creative prose should be rewarded in two ways: 1) the principle of narrative truth, which means the player is rewarded by having a direct impact on the game-world through their prose (including what amounts to "cosmetic transformations" to the scene), and 2) some sort of consistently applied mechanical bonus, which need not strictly be prose related. Some players have creative ideas and good timing despite a lack of eloquence. I do think, however, that mechanical bonuses should be standardized (a list can be jotted down in advance.

 

In other words, the player who is great at it gets the specified bonuses, and the player who tried and doesn't have the knack gets the same bonus. This leaves everyone on the same playing field mechanically. On the other hand, it still gives players that excel at this a bit of juice in terms of narration.

 

In terms of checks and balances these can come in the form of a more commie-style ( ) approach to gaming. The principle of narrative truth can exist with conditions for a GM Veto (for narration that becomes contradictory or disruptive (more than a "cosmetic transform"), and by group veto in terms of the GMs sense of "fair play." If there is a player consensus that the GM is being unfair to one particular player, or is abusing his veto, then some sort of accord will have to be reached. Also, if the group collectively cracks up or gives a player a standing ovation for their effort it should be clear the bonus is in order.

 

As with all things in the game - maturity and communication is the key.

My God man! Don't you realize that our dice are the only thing that stands between us and the tyranny of the GM?

Yeah, I'm joking...a bit.

Re: This is why I play Fantasy Hero

Hey, better descriptive prose goes for GMs to! I once had a GM tell me that "you poke him in the chest and he dies."

I was left a little underwhelmed. LOL

Re: Integrating "normal" things into a "Super" world

The mind boggles that people actually see the need to stat this sort of thing out instead of just going with dramatic license and a bit of common sense.

I hear ya! Only idiots could disagree with me or be interested in something I find unimportant and unnecessary.

The double irony is that I'm not really joking.

Re: Integrating "normal" things into a "Super" world

The question really becomes how many comic book characters do you believe could blow or rip open a safe if they needed to? Cyclops? Marvel Girl? Colossus? Havok? Human Torch? Thing? She-Hulk? Are they all doing 30d6 in the game? Are 15d6 characters really that inferior? And if they are' date=' why are almost all the write ups in the game for characters doing 10-15d6?[/quote']

 

This discussion reminds me of when I was introduced to Champions (2nd Edition I think). The GM was a rather unimaginative "rules lawyer" type.

 

Finally he told me that the game "just couldn't make characters like those in the comic books." Which caused me to immediately think, "Then what's the bloody point?"

 

The next week I started my own game and the players quickly migrated to the new game.

Re: This is why I play Fantasy Hero

I know you're joking but you've reminded me nonetheless of one of the best paladins I ever saw played - the player was my fiancee at the time (now my wife) who didn't have a long history with role playing and the various tropes. She took one look at the description of the paladin class and played one of the most ruthless characters I've ever seen. As she explained it the guy was a holy warrior, utterly convinced of the rightness of his cause. He was definitely lawful and definitely good, but he was not a nice guy in the least. In the example you mention he wouldn't try to spread his faith to the orcs (his faith was not one that tried to convert others) and if the orcs had been raiding, thieving & killing in the area anyway then *even if they had been human* the law would probably have sentenced them to death anyway. So he'd kill them without a second thought.

 

/Offtopic

Actually, that is pretty much standard DnD Paladin character behavior.

Re: What would your Master Villain do?

I would steal several nukes, quickly announce my intentions to hold the world for ransom and claim to have hidden several nukes in major cities. The New Pantheon would likely quickly assemble aboard their satelite base to plan their next move.

I would then immediately launch several missiles toward the satelite. Missiles that would appear to contain some of the nuclear warheads, including radioactive material. I would try to hide the area of the missile launch, but not try too hard.

The Pantheon would no doubt easily destroy the fake missiles and discover the launch base, an area made to appear as if its hiding a vast base of operations. The Pantheon would, hopefully, quickly act to nuetralize my base. Upon their arrival I would then, from the safety of my real secret base, trigger the detonation of the nuclear warheads.

Then I would have to deal with any New Pantheon members who stayed behind on the satelite or were busy elsewhere. But this should get rid of the majority of them.

Hey, doesn't make for a good game, but that's what I would personally do.

Re: Aborting Rules: Dodge v. Dive for Cover

Funny how I've been playing this game since 1st edition yet I never manage to run out of things I'm unclear about.

I would say that that doesn't speak well of the Hero System, but I can say that about some other games I've been playing since the 80's.

At leas we always have something to debate/argue over.

Re: WWYCS: "Why Shouldn't I Kill Him?"

Y'know, killing someone isn't the ONLY way to neutralise them.

 

We do have powerful Mentalist characters in this Genre. If the crook is truly unrepentant perhaps a bit of Psychic Surgery may be in order. Mindflair would have the Perp committed to her most secure Ward. After enough "Therapy" the Baddie would never be a problem again.

But then I would have to accuse her of ripping off the plot to A Clockwork Orange. Viddy well.

Re: WWYCD: We hope you're feeling better now

I think I did that one as a WWYCD.

 

Thought so. Now let's see if I can make the link work.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35321

Thanks for the link. Interesting...

Re: WWYCD: We hope you're feeling better now

Welcome' date=' though both Batman:tAS and Buffy have had episodes similar to it so I can't say this is anything original on my part [/quote']

 

The whole thing has a very "Twilight Zone" feel to it, so I'm sure a variation of the theme has been done many times before Batman and that other show ever did. Still I hadn't really thought of it so I thank you for the inspiration. Gotta tread carefully though, my players (and I admit myself) aren't too fond of "lets all lose our powers" storylines.

Re: WWYCD: We hope you're feeling better now

I'd find this even more amusing if the doctor instead insisted that there are no such things as superpowers or super heroes and the whole world appeared to be exactly like the "real" world.

I just might have to pull that on my group. Thanks for the idea.

Re: Random Question

They stood for genocide?

Re: List of Forum Members - Super Teams & Members

VANGUARD, Chicago

- Vector

- Catacomb

- Wraith

- Penance

- Nemesis

- Magma

- Golem (reserve)

- Obsidian (reserve)

Re: Canadian Super Villain Team- Need Help

Not to go too far off topic' date=' but why do you find it so amusing?[/quote']

 

What? You have to ask? William Shatner, Mike Myers, Jim Carey, the whole SCTV crowd! Canada's a comic gold mine, baby!! Endless amusement.