OddHat

Re: Re: Tag Added and HDC

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Kewl; thanx! She's all linked up now. As an aside, your closing anchor tag is biffed.

 

Hopefully we'll be seeing more entries from you soon. Im working on 1 now as I type this

I have a few thugs that might fit. If I get time tonight I'll be glad to re-work one and send it in.

I liked your Incubus caracter. I was thinking of submitting my version of Casca the Eternal Mercenary, but one immortal thug in a group is probably enough.

Incubus

That was one epic origin story. Well done.

Tag Added and HDC

Added the tag to DIANABOL (though dropping the punctuation means also dropping the sad pun, such as it was). Made some small changes to backstory to make it easier to get her involved with Enforcers Inc. Here's the HDC file.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Champions Universe: Through the 'Ages'

Originally posted by assault

Sure, you don't need the full cliche, but it still makes sense for supers to work together, to cover each others' backs, allow them to deal with problems greater than they can deal with individually, and to allow them to get some sleep, knowing that someone else will deal with any problems that come up. That is, an emergency response team/roster is a good idea.

Why should they deal with "problems" that don't directly involve them at all (if it's not actually their job)? Note again that I'm not saying that supers shouldn't fight crime, but it's part of a wild-cards style "realistic" game to ask very carefully why they bother to do so. Helping your friends or preventing a lunatic from blowing up your city? Sure. "To avenge the deaths of my parrents" is trickier; in a RWWP game, you have to be very clear on why such a character would not either (a) join an organization or ( seek therapy.

Originally posted by assault

In their down time, they can hang out and have a few beers.

Absolutely, but then you have to be clear on down time from what. "World saver" is not a job title.

Originally posted by assault

All of this is perfectly reasonable, and realistic. They don't even have to work for a government to do this. In fact, they might be composed of people who refuse to do this, and have formed their own group in parallel/rivalry with a government backed group.

Agreed, but again the key to keeping a Wild Cards / RWWP feel is to be clear on what exactly that group is, what they do, and why. Twelve Step Supers, the All Supers Bowling League, and the Naughty Tentacles Club are all realistic gatherings of Supers, but very few of them are going to get involved in adventures that don't directly involve their members...er...the people who participate in the groups. The Scooby Gang might. It's keeping the motivation clear that keeps the setting "realistic."

Originally posted by assault [/b]

If it doesn't fit a certain view of the "Iron Age" genre, that's at least partly because the "Iron Age" is a fantasy genre in its own right.

[/b]

Absolutely. I was thinking much more Buffy / Angel / Wild Cards than Marshal Law.

Originally posted by assault [/b]

I posted a link to a site about the silly 70's "Supersons" stories DC put out. These stories are actually quite interesting. Despite their Silver Age campiness, they were an attempt to make DC's heroes "relevant", that is, "realistic". They deal with issues that supposedly actually existed at the time. Of course, this was hopelessly botched, since it was based on a very shallow understanding of what was going on, but the intent was there.

 

In a sense, these stories were as "realistic" as "Iron Age" stories. By this I mean that they are one-sided portrayals of certain elements of the Real World.

 

It's tempting to try to make stories (campaigns) "realistic" by making "heroes" be dysfunctional jerks. Unfortunately, that's precisely what they are, and not all supers "realistically" would be. "Real" supers would include people that are basically normal people, who are capable of forming relationships with other people, including other supers. These relationships would allow them to form teams, to cover each others' backs, and to support them against the hostile bits of the world. Yes, an isolated super could find themselves on the run in a hostile world. One with a support network, on the other hand, would be better situated to say "no" to forces that wanted to use or abuse them.

 

Of course, forming that network could be difficult - but _that_ could be part of a "realistic" game that could be really fun.

 

And incidentally, if you file off some of the stupidities, the "Supersons" thing could be a really cool game.

 

Alan [/b]

Agreed on all counts here.

Originally posted by Blue Angel

Except that you are not likely to summon a toaster. You are likely to summon something with combat capability or other major capability which is way more likely to be worth stealing and using against you.

 

"Go ahead make your toast villain."

What if you're Powdered Toast Man?

Seanbaby rules all.

Originally posted by Syberdwarf2

Seriously, I think I can hash out a pretty good origin and backstory, but the problem is with the powers (all jokes aside). Well, okay ... maybe not ALL jokes aside.

 

I'm thinking he is definately outwardly racist, as in dressing like a racist, acting like a racist, and proclaiming his views to whoever is nearby whether they want to hear them or not.

The powers shouldn't be that much of a problem. A high PRE minor brick (Bulldozer +10 PRE, +15 Mental Def and a skill or two) would be appropri ate, or a Nazi-ideology spouting occultist (use Witchcraft's sheet with a few stat alterations and maybe a power boost). How powerful he needs to be depends on what you actually plan to do with him. Imo, too powerful would be a mistake, but again that's a judgement call on th GM's part.

Originally posted by WilyQuixote

Ummmmm wait a minute...in your campaign world you play Dr Destroyer for laughs?! Man I'd hate to see who your PCs go up against that really scare them.

One more note on this. Dr.D has enough technology to make himself the richest man on Earth. Look what people like Gates accomplish with far, far less (though I understand that Bill does have a powered battlesuit now). Dr.D has the brains (and tech) to turn that money into influence. So why doesn't he already controll the political process in the US, Japan and the EU? Why isn't he already ruler of the world?

Because, as written, he's a loony.

He spends two years with a good therapist and maybe a twelve step group, and all shall (finally) bow down to Doctor Destroyer.

Re: Re: Re: Champions Universe: Through the 'Ages'

Originally posted by assault

The most obvious reason I can think of for why supers hang out together is that: They're supers!

 

snip

 

Anyway, my point is that supers are quite likely to socialise together. That's not quite the same as "fighting crime" together, but then, the crimefighting thing is a problem in its own right. We can reasonably suggest, however, that once friendships are formed between supers, they are more likely to give each other a hand when problems arise, especially if those problems are mutual.

 

Supergroups are logical enough.

 

Alan

It depends on how you define supergroups. Wildcards has the best modern-day Super Hero Fiction examples of "realistic" teams I've seen, but there are plenty of others. Socializing? Sure. Going to the same semi-exclusive clubs, dating, working for the same government agency or mafia boss? No problem. It's when you have a half dozen grown men and women hanging around in their tights in the Secret Headquarters waiting for the Trouble Alert to go off that you lose that real-world-with-powers feeling. Also note that I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with a more gold, silver. or bronze age approach. It just doesn't fit the genre I was describing.

It can also be fun to play a Seanbaby campaign. I submit: http://www.seanbaby.com/super.htm

Originally posted by WilyQuixote

Ummmmm wait a minute...in your campaign world you play Dr Destroyer for laughs?! Man I'd hate to see who your PCs go up against that really scare them. I know if Shrike ever brought Dr. D out I'd be thinking to myself...we finally did it, we finally pushed him too far and he's ending the campaign.

 

Shrike doesn't pull many if any punches and if he brought out Dr. D then someone's PC/s at the table is probably going to die. Of course as PCs we probably did something to deserve this so it all works out I guess.

 

A golden age Dr. D I picture as a Dr. Evilesque type. Drilling to the core of the planet with a bomb or putting a lazer on the moon pointed at the Earth and calling it his "Death Star". Those sorta evil schemes. Of course he would also HAVE to make Hermit's Mini D.

Dr. D-Evil would be a heck of a fun foe for a commedy game. Maybe the next time the PCs go dimension-hopping...

Re: aw shucks

Originally posted by Hermit

For example, what would a Golden or Iron Age Dr. Destroyer be like?

Golden age he'd be Doktor Hitler, mad Nazi Genious, out to create the fourth reich. Iron age he'd be exactly the same, but not played for laughs.

Re: Champions Universe: Through the 'Ages'

Originally posted by Hermit

*Cough* Sorry about that, felt the muse descend so to speak. Another thread had some folks mentioning the 'Feel' of the 5th Ed Champions Universe being too silver, or too dark by turns. So I'm asking, what age do you consider the Champions 5th Ed Universe? and what changes would you make to fit it to other 'ages' ? Maybe we can create a bit of an unofficial resource to help any fellow players who want to do so.

I'm not even going to try to match that level of fan-fict without three cups of coffee and a couple of hours for re-writes. Well done.

That said, the idea for an adaptations thread is a good one. I've been doing a Wild Cards - Philip Jose Farmer- Roger Zelazny - Champions world for years, with liberal thefts from Nightlife and (more recently) Aberrant. I think the current default Champions universe is fairly easy to turn into pure Silver, or even Gold. Turning it into a "real-world-with-powers" setting requires a little more work.

Suggestions for "real-world-with-powers:"

1. Don't worry about power level per-se. Gritty is in the way you play it. Plenty of gritty action-movie level realistic characters are best represented as built on far more than 350 points (though you can also do lower point versions; again, it's in how you play it).

2. Drop the costumes or keep them as something worn only by publicity seekers and the odd government agent. It's amazing how much more "realistic" a world with supers feels if only a few people are running around in spandex.

3. Real governments. No government is going to realistically let bands of rampaging lunatics, "heroes" or "villains," casually smash center city to rubble twice a week. No cash economy is going to survive the strain of never being able to trust a bank, not to mention the costs of re-building the entire city monthly, and then there are the medical costs and the lost work time and displaced citizens every time a building gets knocked down by a thrown car...Real governments in a world with Supers means the government grabbing every super they can get there hands on, by fair means or foul, and pressing them into service. Any Super Teams that do exist are likely to work for the government as part of a larger police or security force. Which leads us to...

4. Drop the teams, or at least think them through carefully. Criminal gangs that include supers, FBI teams of supers, the odd cult with supers at the top, all fairly easy for players to accept in a RWWP game. Fantastic Four / Avengers style teams only work if you're very clear on why exactly this band of folks is willing to operate together. Villain teams are even worse, though making them part of a larger organization (i.e. Drug Cartel enforcers, terrorist groups, etc.) does work. The Wild Cards books have some great examples of this, and are a must read for team dynamics.

5. Ask why a telepath hasn't casually wandered into the White House and made himself president for life. Ask why Supers-Tech hasn’t put us all into flying cars. The Aberrant world does a fairly good job with this, though again they assume a very strangely passive government (and then the whole conspiracy within a conspiracy within a conspiracy the computer is your friend vibe that White Wolf products always have).

6. Why petty crime? Someone like Bulldozer could make millions as a wrestler, prize fighter, or government agent. Give him that Super-Class Wrestling Federation he dreams of in his write-up and he becomes a much more interesting character. Any time you feel like doing the old "Ogre Robs The Bank" scenario, ask yourself why someone with these extraordinary powers is risking jail or death for a fraction of the money he or she could make legitimately.

8. Mick Farren, Roger Zelazny, Steve Perry, The Wild Cards books, the Aberrant RPG, and a hundred other good sources for this type of campaign are out there. Steal freely.

Oh well. That's it.

Bravo! Encore! Suggoi! Hen How! Whoot!

Originally posted by SuperBlue

I've decided to buy the Armor outside of the pool. How does this look for the writeup:

 

Retractable Armor Suit

Armor 10/10 (30)

OIF -1/2

Visible -1/4

Instant Change (5)

 

Total Cost: 22 Points

Visible is already covered by the Obvious part of OIF, unless your armor is constanly flashing bright lights and making "Ping" and "Beep" noises.

Body odor NND DS, 60% physical and energy DamRed. defined as "too dumb to die", Armor, Life Support: Extreme Cold and KB resistance defined as "Layers of Protective Blubber," bonus to pre attacks with an OAF: Banjo, Gestures: Must play banjo, and incantations "You have a pretty mouth, boy."

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

By the rules, the maximum number of robots (toasters sounds a little silly so I'll change it) I can have summoned at one time equals my maximum number summoned. I can't just dismiss the old one at will - I have to dispel it, suppress it or persuade it to leave of its own accord (maybe there should be a "return" advantage). So, once Dr. Destroyer takes control of my robot, and assuming I can only summon one, I'm out of luck until it somehow gets eliminated.

 

So I have given up something. I am now attacked by my own "slavishly loyal summoned creature" because he'll follow anyone's orders. I'm worse off than a standard Summon - just because I fail the ego roll doesn't mean I get attacked, and certainly doesn't mean the creature automatically sides with my enemies (or whoever has the control box).

Hadn't remembered that. Your point.

I guess you'd best define your slavishly loyal robots (now that we're done with the toasters) as actually being slavishly loyal and thus only useable by you. As to your slavishly loyal car, you'd best take the keys out of the ignition when you go into the store, or define it as only driveable by you. You can do the same thing with any other device you've paid points for; a reasonable GM should let you do it here. If you start asking for a cost break because your summoned useable by anyone non-unique toaster may possibly be stollen, the GM had best steal that thing every time you leave the kitchen, otherwise you're getting those points for free.

Originally posted by Blue Angel

This is the way I see it:

 

+1/4 Minimum for any summoned vehicle. Anyone can just get in and drive. A motorcycle is a good example of this.

+1/2 Summoned vehicle has security system/locks which require skill rolls to defeat. No problem for an experienced car thief. This is the minimum for exceptional vehicles which go beyond street legal or have weapon systems.

+3/4 Summoned vehicle has advanced security system or simple AI which will offer token resistance to enemies. This is a difficult steal such as an armored vehicle which is hard to break into. Star ship enterprise would fall into this catagory.

+1 Summoned Vehicle has advanced AI and will take action on it's own to protect it's relationship with the summoner. KIT from Knightrider is a good example of this.

As house rules, I'd have no serious problem with this system. My own house rule is that summoned devices default to only being useable by the summoner. If you wanted a point break for a stealable summoned device, then I'd rule that you couldn't summon that device or its equivelant back in that game session.

If it makes a difference in play, it's worth points; if not, it's just special effects.

Originally posted by Agent X

Note that Dr. Destroyer and Menton would be in the top 800 but not in the top 12-20 so you may want to modify either his intelligence or the scale. Telios fits in that top 12 to 20 though. Binder would only rate a 136-145 IQ.

There are countless very qualified and successful engineers, scientists, etc. who only score somewhat above average on IQ tests. In an RPG we're talking about an approximation of an approximation of "intelligence."

So I'm not too worried if Dr.Destroyer is only one of the 800 smartest people in the world. The others all majored in the humanities and ended up working in comic book shops while Dr.D majored in engineering and learned something useful.

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Depends on the toaster (watch Red Dwarf).

 

The "easy to control by me" is offset by the "easy to control by anyone else as well". My Summoned toaster will toast Dr. Destroyer's bagel. My summoned zombie won't carry his luggage.

No it isn't (or not by much), because you can always get another one, and thus lose nothing by having Dr.Destroyer steal one of your Talky Toasters to prepare his breakfast.

You've gained something, you've lost nothing; it's a net advantage.

If you can find a cheaper way to do things (cosmic gadet pool defined as summoning gadgets, etc., etc.) that's cool too. Tweaking things to your liking in your home game works as well. Summon is a very broad power, and very easy to abuse. The built in advantages and limits reflect that.

Interesting. Two suggestions:

1) Kind of a low DCV vs. ranged attacks (iirc, your kung fu levels can't help you there), though the high defenses help offset that.

2) You ended up spending points on PD, REC, Stun, and a HtH DC while missing out on a 1/2d6 of damage from Str. Unless you're intentionally avoiding min-maxing, Paying 7 points for a 25 STR would save you 3 points and add 1/2d6 to your HTH attacks. 40 STR would probably be a good bet from a pure cost efficiency point of view, though at that point he's a light brick with a MA theme.

Originally posted by Blue Angel

LOL. Now that would be a surprise.

 

 

Oh. Except you couldn't summon that particular van back again unless you got the "summon specific van advantage" which would be a waste on a minivan when any one will do the same thing. Once he has stolen the van it is his. And since the van left under it's own power you are now released to summon another one.

If you don't have the "summon specific van" advantage you'd better make sure you don't leave anything in the back of the thing.

Originally posted by Snarf

But the average for normal people is now 8. 10 is supposed to be somewhat exceptional.

Have you SEEN the normal people out there?!?

Originally posted by Blue Angel

That is just the kind of thing I was thinking.

 

The +1 just seems too high for an object which is slavish but not loyal. A +1/2 modifier for slavish but not loyal seems to more acurately describe most vehicles.

 

If the vehicle cannot be operated by anyone else without applying special powers like machine mind control then the +1 makes sense (like the mecha example described above). But a standard minivan is incapable of loyalty and can be used by anyone who has the skills to do so. Loyalty doesn't facter into it.

Of course the guy who stole your summoned mini-van is going to be fairly surprised when you come out of the 7-11 and just summon it right back.

Re: Re: And now for something different.

Originally posted by Blue Jogger

I went an even different way with her.

Mary Ann Summers fell from an extremely tall coconut tree and landed on her side. Damage was extensive, both legs, right arm and right ear were completely useless.

 

Luckily, the Professor found a crate that had washed up on the shore that had top secret cybernetics parts.

 

"Gentlemen, we can rebuilding her."

...entirely out of coconuts.

Originally posted by Blue Angel

But that assumes no contest to control by you alone. What about no contest to control by anyone. If anyone can control it then you have no special control advantages above others with respect to that machine. I think the spirit of the amicable advantages is that you have extra control over the summoned creature that goes beyond anyone who just encountered it. With a summoned vehicle there is no special advantage over it. Anyone can use it with the exact same level of cooperation you will get.

 

Unless the +1 advantage guarantees that no one but the summoner can use that vehicle. In that case I could agree but for non-sentient machines in general there cannot be any advantage to amicability for anyone.

They have to get you out of your summoned mecha before they can try to controll it. The chance of abuse using this power is sky high. That's why the advantages in the general rules are priced to keep it expensive, and why it's a STOP power. If you want to lower the price in your home campaign, that's cool. House rules always trump the book.