SteveZilla

Would TnS triple the cost of Combat Luck like it does for other defenses?

First, Skills as a Power is a Special Power, meaning it can't be put in a Power Framework (unless the GM so permits). If the CSLs you describe were to be placed in a Framework with permission, they wouldn't necessarily have to be 5-pointers just because they're placed in a Framework, though I suspect most GMs would require that for the sake of balance.

 

As an aside, the Limitation you describe is invalid -- by definition the CSLs only apply to that one attack, so Linking doesn't restrict them any further.

While I should have realized that Linked wouldn't restrict a 2 pt level, my question about CSLs in a framework slot *along with* the power it is for is still unanswered (to me, at least).

Presuming I have GM approval to include Skill Levels in a framework, would this be a legal slot for a 60 Point Multipower?

6-u Death Punch: Drain Body 5D6 (50 Active Points) -and- +3 OCV (6 Active Points)

I thought that to include more than one thing in a framework slot they *had* to be linked. If that is true, the CSLs above would then have to be 5 point levels, so that one could legally take Linked on them.

The rules say that only 5-point and higher CSLs can have Limitations. There's no rule saying a character can't buy any type of CSL without Limiting it and call it whatever he wants. For example' date=' he might buy, say, +3 OCV (cost: 6 points) with his "Death Punch" (Drain BODY) and claim that the special effect of the CSLs is that they represent the way a living target's energies "attract" the Death Punch.[/quote']

 

While I didn't originate this thread, your answer made me want some clarification.

 

I was thinking about the case of a Framework-as-Power-with-multiple-settings, and some settings being more accurate than others.

 

In the example you provide (using the 2 pt CSL and just "saying" its in a focus [i.e. part of the power]), it would not be allowable to include those CSL in the framework slot with the Power, as that would require Linked, which can't be done on < 5 pt CSLs.

 

 

Is that correct?

Mr. Rejuvenator has 10 Body and no Power Defense:

Regeneration: Healing 1 BODY, Resurrection, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (60 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2)

Mr. Flatline has:

DIE!: Suppress BODY 12d6

... and uses it on Mr. Rejuvenator, rolling 42 points of effect, or 21 Body, effectively "killing" him (-11 Body). I know that he will revive when the Suppress is removed, but I am curious about what happens before then.

Will Resurrection Regeneration bring him back to life despite the Suppress?

Will Regeneration eventually restore all the damage from the Suppress?

(Both questions presume that the Suppress is still in effect.)

I couldn't find the answer to this question either in the rGMB (revised Green Man Book, aka 5ER), or in the FAQ.

Can you use a Dispel on a target that doesn't have the spedified power?

I.e., Can you use Dispell Knockback Resistance + Does Knockback on a target that has no Knockback Resistance, and thus cause knockback?

Given that Dispel is an All-or-Nothing power, if Dispel has the advantage Does Knockback, can it still cause knockback if the Dispel doesn't achieve a high enough result to dispel the target power?

And if the target power is Knockback Resistance, is the knockback (presuming a successful dispel) calculated with or without the Knockback Resistance?

If a chararacter has Desolidification and a Damage Shield with Affects Physical World' date=' would the Damage Shield do it's damage to a solid character making "contact" with this one?[/quote']

Yes' date=' of course -- the whole point of making something Affects Physical World is so that it can affect solid objects/persons/targets.[/quote']

 

My concern was: If the opponent can't make physical contact with the Desolid character, how could he trigger the Damage Shield? But, I guess I can accept that it's a non-issue.

 

However, would it be enough to trigger the Damage Shield if the Desolid character simply chose to occupy the same space as someone else? Or would that need the "Offensive" addition to the Damage Shield? And/or would the character need something like their Strength bought with APW to use the Damage Shield offensively?

I have some confusion on linking constant, granular powers (like Flight or Energy Blast) to a constant power that is either on or off (not granular), like Desolidification.

Say that I'm making a character who can transform into "living fire" (turns on Desolidification). I want anything that occupies the same space as him while Desolid to take heat/fire damage (I know it needs APW, and I have a different thread dealing with it's legality). I also want him to be able to fly, but only while Desolid.

I presume that both the Damage Shield and the Flight would take Linked (to Desolidificaiton). However, the Damage Shield is effectively "Always On" and on "full-power" anytime the Desolidification is on. But the Flight, while only useable while Desolid, is still granular in it's use (0" to max").

My question is which values for Linked would be correct:

A. Both take Linked at -1/2.

B. The Damage Shield takes Linked at -3/4, and the Flight takes it at -1/2.

C. The Damage Shield takes Linked at -1/2, and the Flight takes it at -1/4.

If a chararacter has Desolidification and a Damage Shield with Affects Physical World, would the Damage Shield do it's damage to a solid character making "contact" with this one?

Would it be valid to use the "Invisible Power, Visible Source" clause when buying Invisible Power Effects for Desolidification?

I.e., I want it to look like the character is not Desolid until someone or something passes though him. Would that be +1/4 or +1/2?

Re: Mental Martial Arts

Would you possably consider Psilock's psi-blade to be an example of Martial Arts enhancing Mental Power's' date=' or are you thinking more totally in the psionic realm?[/quote']

 

Since her psi-blade had to make physical contact with the target, I think it's along the lines of an Energy Blast - AVLD (Mental Defense; +1½) - No Range(-½), which is used in a Multiple-Power Attack along with her Martial Arts.

 

But from what I recall, when she hits with it, the target doesn't seem to be also taking the effects of a Martial/Offensive Strike. So it could be that the Martial Arts just gets her "into position" to use the psi-blade, which is used by itself.

 

If it's used by itself, it could be an Ego Attack - No Range(-½).

Can a Transfer bought with Uncontrolled transfer some or all of it's points into the "END Reserve" created due to the Uncontrolled Advantage?

 

Could the same Transfer transfer some or all of it's points into itself?

 

1. No.

 

2. See 5ER 105.

I may not have been clear with the second question. Say that Mr. Downer has the following power:

75 Transfer 2d6 (Stun to Transfer), Continuous (+1), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (75 Active Points) 7 END

And he strikes Mr. Target #1 (a duplicator) with it. He puts a large amount of END into it's Uncontrolled pool -- for this question, the exact amount isn't important, other than it's enought to last many Phases.

Normally, the character's Power gets boosted so that the next target of Mr. Downer's attack would suffer a bigger Transfer. But at the same time, the Transfer that was "stuck to" the first target remains at a constant level.

What I am asking is would it be allowable for the Transfer to *not* boost the character's power, but instead boost *itself* -- i.e. the one that is "stuck to" the target?

Can a Transfer bought with Uncontrolled transfer some or all of it's points into the "END Reserve" created due to the Uncontrolled Advantage?

Could the same Transfer transfer some or all of it's points into itself?

Re: Storn's Art & Characters thread.

Storn, I don't suppose you chould be persuaded to offer a package deal/bulk discount?

Re: 4th vs 5th

Pardon the shameless self promotion, but you might find the following useful

 

http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm

Hardened is now being listed on page 77 under Defense powers instead of under Advantages. The relationship between Hardened and a power that has both Armor Piercing & Penetrating has been clarified – one level of hardened will only stop one of the two, and which one it would stop must be defined when the power is built. This also applies to a power with Indirect, of course.

 

I never liked the previous ruling that a single level of hardening at +1/4 could protect against +1 of disadvantages.

I think that last word shouldn't have the "dis" on it.

Re: How do you Keep from having your Mind Read?

Some very good points!

 

The only thing I might add is that you could even make the Mental Defense more specific--only works to stop mind reading (that way the Telepath could still send thoughts) .

I'd call that a -0 Limitation at best. Telepathy can't send into the Deep, Hidden Thoughts/Memory/Subconscious levels. And sending "Surface Thoughts" doesn't do anything to the target.

Re: Partially Limited Powers, Adders or Advantages?

THank you for all the input and the lively discussion. I think I'll be going wtih the psuedo-naked advantage suggestion. Seems to fit the best as I agree that it is modifying the advantage/mechanic, not the power itself.

Thank you so much discussion board for the input.

You're welcome. Something I'm not sure if anybody pointed out: Naked Advantages are generally Instant, and generally Cost END. To avoid this problem, don't make Persistent a Naked Advantage. Use the rules for Partially Limited Powers on p 180 of 5th ed (p 282 of Rev 5th ed).

Re: Favorite Abuse

How about the "Go Away" Damage Shield for only 8 points?

1" Teleportation(straight up) + Zero END(+1/2), Continuous(+1), Damage Shield(+1/2), Megascale(1"=1000 Km; +1)

That's about 2.75 times higher than the International Space Station's orbit.

However, this isn't nearly as doable if there is a mimimum purchase rule for Teleportation.

Re: Favorite Abuse

Ooh! I like that one! A dog familiar... man's best friend. A Blink Dog even, like from D&D...

 

Only, the familiar can take the damage. So I'll always be safe, but one day my dog will be run over by karma.

So your dogma will be run over by your karma?

Re: Favorite Abuse

Like, say...

 

Go To Hell: Tunneling 2" through 8 DEF material, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Ranged (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1)

 

Well, it is 77 Active Points, but if it hits, the target isn't likely to come back unless they can survive in magma flowing 2km below the surface of the earth, and can get back from there.

You forgot to add the Fill In adder. Otherwise, you've also just created a volcano.

EDIT: Not to nitpick, but in the vast majority of places on the Earth the crust is thicker than 2 km. Just drop it down to 1" and bump up the MegaScale advantage to fix.

Re: How do you Keep from having your Mind Read?

I understand it' date=' I just don't agree with it. Since Invisibility affects other powers with "sense-like aspects" it should affect the "sense-like aspects" of Telepathy as well. Why would telepathy be immune when Clairsentience and Mind Scan are not?[/quote']

 

Perhaps because neither of those powers "get inside" the target, while that is the whole point of Telepathy?

 

Personally I agree with the "by the book" way of Invisibility not being a defense against Telepathy, "sense-like aspects" or no. Otherwise, you have the case of Mental Group Invisibility (10 pts) = 100% Mental Damage Reduction (Resistant). Even if it's just for Telepathy, it's still too much for too little cost. Not to mention being an absolute defense, something that a Sense-Affecting Power shouldn't be (neither a defense nor absolute).

 

The people who suggested Shape Shift are close, but not quite there. If the attacking mentalist achieves a level of effect greater than "Surface Thoughts", they can "get under the mask" (something that can't be done going the Invisibility route).

 

So, here is my entry into the mix:

 

6 Mental Group Shape Shift (One Other Form: Joe Normal's Surface Thoughts, Nontargeting Group) - Zero END(+1/2), Persistent(+1/2), Inherent(+1/4) (11 Active Points), Limited Effect (Telepathy Only; -1/4), Always On(-1/2).

 

16 Mental Defense +40 - Only Vs. Telepathic Reading(-1), Only To Reduce Level Of Effect To Below EGO +10(-1/2).

 

Unless a *huge* amount of Telepathy is used, all a telepath will get will be surface thoughts (the limitation on the defense ensures that it's not blocked completely), and the Shape Shift ensures that it's only "uninteresting, normal" thoughts.

 

If you want to get really technical, you might need to apply Invisible Power Effects to the Shape Shift. That way, someone can't build a "Detect Mental Shape Shift" Sense and have an "Ah Ha!" moment with this NPC.

 

If you have any Mentalists with Armor Piercing, Penetrating, or Find Weakness on/with their Telepathy, you may need to add Hardened and/or Lack of Weakness to the mix.

 

 

Of course, this is just my ----- .-.-.- ----- ..--- dollars.

Re: What's the most ridiculous PC you've ever been subjected to?

Hmmm.... great ideas. So lemme see if this sounds right. Was thinking of buying "Instant Change" so I can make all the Tank Powers "only in hero ID" for the -1/4 Limitation (Tanks are expensive). And yes' date=' I'm really doing this... [/quote']

 

Nah, just buy Multiform, and have the second form be a vehicle.

 

Psych Lim: Hears voices of ghosts of Michael Wittman and Nathan Bedford Forrest (common, strong)

 

Psych Lim: Unswerving Commitment to Freedom of All Men Everywhere (common)

 

Accidental Change (Turbo Teen Effect): Into Hero ID, when exposed to Temperatures above 100 degrees or below 32 degrees, 11/less.

 

Physical Limitation: No Hands in Hero ID (common, total)

 

Physical Limitation: Cannot Swim or Jump in Hero ID (common)

 

Social Limitation (Secret Identity, Tom Tompkins)

 

Hmmm... what else?

 

Distinctive Features (Tank)?

 

Physical Limitation (Very Large and Heavy)?

 

Reputation (Best Tank On The Planet)?

 

Hunted (Soviet Tanks)?

 

------

 

Extra inches of Running - Turn Mode (-1/4)

Re: Partially Limited Powers, Adders or Advantages?

The trick with using a Naked Advantage is that you must apply it to the entire Active Cost of the Power it's to apply to. i.e.: if the FF is 50 Active Points' date=' the Persistant NA must apply to a 50 AP FF (base of 25 points, rather than 10).[/quote']

 

I don't have the revied 5th ed rulebook yet, and the revised version's FAQ doesn't mention this. So I am left to presume that the "old" FAQ is still in force. It states:

 

Characters calculate the cost of a naked Advantage for only one power differently. In that case' date=' recalculate the cost of the base power with the naked Advantage. After you have that new cost, subtract the cost of the base power to determine the cost of the naked Advantage. All Advantages and Limitations applicable to the base power automatically apply to/function with the naked Advantage, but do not alter its cost.[/quote']

 

I also made an error. I presumed that Limitations would carry over and reduce the Naked Advantage's cost (although in the case being discussed, the power has no "overall" Limitations). But Limitations specifically applied to the Naked Advantage still reduce it's cost.

Re: Partially Limited Powers, Adders or Advantages?{EDIT}I forgot to add Useable On Others to the second power build I suggested. Without it, the Force Field can't be given to anybody else. {/EDIT}

I don't think it's all that unique. Just add Persistent to the Power' date=' and only apply the Ablative Limitation to the Persistent Advantage.[/quote']Just because it's simple to do doesn't change it's uniqueness. ;)You weren't referring to the Ablative Limitation for Defenses (p 77 in 5th ed, first version), were you? While it may seem similar, it functions differently from what GummiBear wants. And to build it in Hero Designer, we'd have to use a Custom Modifier.Also, after thinking about it, I agree that the Limitation in question only limits the Persistent (or Uncontrolled) Advantage, and not the full power.And about Persistent vs Uncontrolled: I think it depends upon the flavor you want. Uncontrolled means the character isn't limited to how many she could give the power to -- just how many with a single action. It also means that the power *must* have "a reasonably common and obvious set of circumstances which will turn it off." Which could circumvent the "Activation Roll Countdown Lim". Uncontrolled means you don't have to keep that slot on a Multipower or Variable Power Pool active once it's given.Persistent: Doesn't have the "reasonably common and obvious" problem, and doesn't let the character exceed the # of targets bought with Useable On Others. It also means that if this power is in a non-Elemental Control framework, the character can't switch those points out of that slot without all tagets loosing the power.

So' date=' because I'm lazy and I'd rather just make something up rather than use a real example, let's say the FF has a 20-point Base Cost, and a total of +2 Advantages other than Persistent (but including Reduced End Cost, Usable by Others, etc.). Break the cost into that of the Persistent Advantage (20 * 1/2 = 10 APs) and the base Power plus normal Advantages (20 * 3 = 60). Apply the Ablative Limitation to the 10 APs in the Persistent Advantage, and add it to the real cost of the rest of the Power. Basically the mechanical arithmetic works just like buying a Naked Advantage, except that it is not a Naked Advantage, but rather still applies directly to the specific Power.[/quote']It might be easier for some to do the math as if Persistent were a Naked Advantage with the "Ablative" Lim as well as any lims the "rest of the" power has. Then just add the Active & Real Costs for it back into the rest of the Power's Active & Real Costs.

For example:

Active Cost	Power	Real Cost
50	Force Field (10 PD/10 ED), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (50 Active Points)	50
10	Persistent (+1/2)(on Force Field +10 PD/+10 ED)(10 Active Points) - Reducing Activation Roll, Only When Anastasia is Unconscious (-1/2)	7

So, the whole thing has 60 Active Points, and costs 57 Real Points.

Re: What's the most ridiculous PC you've ever been subjected to?

I'm soooo gonna play the M1 Abrams Tank. Bank on it. Hmmm... character background, Army mechanic who was exposed to experimental tank serum and turned into a tank? Anyone? (crickets chirping)

 

I'll find a way to do it... no doubt. Gotta make sure to avoid the CvK though, or I'll never be able to fire the main gun!

Cybernetic experiment like in Robocop II.

You could still fire the main gun at equipment... like that T-shirt the man just happened to jump into right as you fired.