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Re: Appropriate challenges: how many points?

It's detailed in a Digital Hero article' date=' I'd have to check which one (I can do that later at home)...[/quote']

If you get a chance (or someone else knows), I'd appreciate it. It'd be a good excuse for me to finally buy an issue of DH.

Re: Appropriate challenges: how many points?

What's the Efficiency Rating system?

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

Samurai007, is there a site where we can take a look at your work? I don't have any issues of DH, sadly.

Re: Appropriate challenges: how many points?

Okay, what about other situations, such as:

• Supervillain + henchmen/agents
  
• Multiple supervillains
  
• Henchmen/agents only
  

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

...perhaps putting forth the additional effort to reduce the recycling of old art and to get creative with who they go to for the new art might satisfy the customer base' date=' a wise decision.[/quote']

The question is whether it's an issue of *effort* or *money*. If DOJ can't afford to make top-notch art a priority for every product, I can understand (hence my suggestion that I'd prefer to see no art than crappy art if it will save them more money).

 

As for releasing too many books, I get the impression that this is not the case, and that cutting back on the release schedule would probably hurt their bottom line.

 

The comments I've seen from Steve and Darren have made it clear that they don't believe that DOJ is sustainable investing in color and hardcovers. They've said that the cannot maintain their necessary profit margin going that route wihtout a significant increase in the price of their books. I don't have any basis to claim this isn't true.

 

Nonetheless, I keep my fingers crossed that one day we'll see a HERO book that looks as snazzy as an M&M or D&D release. As long as the content remains top-notch (which it does, for the msot part), I'll survive until then.

Re: Superheroic core stories

Sounds about right ot me. IMO, As a rule, super heroes tend to be retroactive. They have to wait for evil to come to them or their turf, then respond.

 

There are exceptions, natch

E.g., Harbinger of Justice, Punisher, or even the Authority, maybe. "We know there's evil out there. Let's go kill it."

Re: Appropriate challenges: how many points?

At the end of the day' date=' it's really about specific capabilities, not so much points.[/quote']

Gotcha. Is maybe looking at the campiagn guidelines a better metric? I.e., as long as each side is working under the same limitations (e.g., NCM, DCs, Active Points), the overall point totals aren't as important. Of course, the campaign guidelines in 5ER increase as overall total points increase...

 

I could swear that Steve said simply comparing total points was a valid (though rough) method when I posed this question years ago. Not sure that the published adventures really follow this, though.

Re: Superheroic core stories

Hmm... I could simplfy this even more. Superheroes are all about Law Enforcement.

"One or more superheroes aim to uphold The Law. One or more villains (super or not) works to violate The Law. The superheroes battle the villains and restore order. Repeat."

The variable is the source of The Law. In a Golden- or Silver-Age game, that source is usually the city or nation in which the super resides, e.g., WW2-era Superman upholding "truth, jsutice, and the American way" by sabotaging Japanese battleships. In a Bronze- or Iron-Age game, the source may be a more general "higher" law that transcends borders (e.g., the Justice League, sorta), or else an individual super's conception of what's right and wrong, e.g. the Harbinger of Justice acting as judge, jury, and executioner.

Jumping on the core story bandwagon here...

HERO, of course, has no core story, as it's a generic RPG designed to be adapted to whatever core story you want to tell.

But what about Champions (or the supers genre in general)? Maybe...

"A party of superheroes bands together to use their powers for a stated goal, usually upholding the law (or their conception of it) in a given city or nation they protect. Opponents appear who aim to thwart the superheroes' goal, either directly or indirectly. The superheroes defeat the opponents, restoring balance and/or furthering their goal. Next week, the same thing happens."

How do you gauge the appropriateness of an encounter in HERO? I.e., if I'm running a game for X number of PCs each built on Y points, what kind of NPCs are appropriate to throw at them? Is it simply a matter of side A and side B totalling up to the same number of points?

E.g., is Card Shark (c.750pts) enough of a match for 5-6 DC characters built on c.250pts?

Or am I just thinking too much like a D&D player, and HERO simply doesn't work this way? I was perusing Champions: Battlegrounds and StaST to get an idea, but I must not be seeing it.

I asked a similar question a while back, but it's buried in the archives now and I don't want to look for it.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

You're right. The content is top-notch.

I was actually expecting more discussion and less NPCs. I.e., I'm kind of disappointed to see that it's mostly a book of foes, many being foes I wasn't too interested in. Nice to see stats for Scarlet, though.

Re: Where else do you roll down?

You know, as long as a "bonus" is something you add and a "penalty" is something you subtract, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with a roll-under system. (I was happy when GoO stopped doing this backwards with TriStat.)

In the end, regardless of the fact that you want to roll low to determine success and roll high (ideally) to determine effect in HERO, you're still rolling X number of dice, *adding* them all up, and making a comparison (be it to a target number or against a another PC's BODY/STUN/EGO/PRE/etc.).

Intuitive enough for me.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

I understand you are a fan' date=' as am I, but I find it hard to believe that you would purchase CKC, AA, or VVV and be content to have those books without a single picture in them to show you what any of those villains look like. Content only goes so far and it's way too easy to switch over to another game system that is giving content, pictures, and presentation.[/quote']

But the system matters to me more than the presentation. While I might not be "content" to have no art in a book, my discontent with that can be offset by quality content.

 

Granted, if we're talking lousy layout as well, then I may not be so quick to contradict... Thankfully, HERO books don't have that problem any more. My copy of Strike Force looks pretty shoddy even in comparison to DC:TAS in that regard.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

While I do agree that M&M has some outstanding art' date=' your numbers don't add up on the price for the page count.[/quote']

 

M&M Annual: Amazon says 127pp @ 24.95 list. You're right, it's only $2 cheaper, but it's got color, better art, is longer, and has higher text density. Crooks! is the same page length, hardcover, amazing art, high-quality paper, and only $1 more. Additionally, both products are excellent in content.

 

Also, all of the above can be had from Amazon for 30% or more off. There aren't many (or any, maybe) retailers that offer HERO products at that kind of discount.

 

Not that I'm trying to make a case for M&M being somehow "better"; it's not, IMO. But when you're talking about what makes for an appealing product, it's hard to fault M&M in any way.

 

I guess the weird thing is that, according to Ken Hite, HERO's market share is not bad for a not-WotC company, and is roughly the same ballpark as GR, iirc. Granted, there are far more HERO books each year than M&M books. If GR can pull off the wonderful-looking products they do, why not DOJ?

 

Heck... DC:TAS may simply be an anomaly. In general, the books have been looking quite good.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

You can make a product look nice without needing color. Noir is a perfect example of that.

I'm not saying you can't. Just pointing out how dusty the color argument has become. I think we've seen that DOJ can produce very good looking B&W product. They've also made it clear that doing what GR/Super Unicorn does is not financially feasible for them.

(And, IIRC, there were quite a few M&M fans on their boards who were disappointed with the look of Noir, being used to the glorious color of all the other M&M books. But that's a different issue.)

...but superhero products need a plentiful supply of good art in them. Good comic books are an equal balance of art to story. Good superhero game supplements need to be balanced as well.

Ideally, yes. But if DOJ has to make a budget-based choice between:

a) A mediocre cover and middling-to-poor interior art

A fantastic cover and either no interior art or minimal but quality interior art

I'll happily take B.

I would not buy a published Champions product that had no art except on the cover.

I would. I might not be as happy as I would be if it were filled with glorious art, but ultimately the content is more important to me.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

The presentation will not inspire them to spend their $27.00 on something new.

Particularly considering that, e.g., M&M books of similar page count list for $4 less and are full-color wth awesome art.

Still, this is an old issue that DOJ has addressed many times. They do what fits their budget and makes economic sense; if they could make their books look like M&M and still make a profit, they would.

I would just like to offer the opinion that, as a devoted HERO fan, I would be happy to see less art in a book if it meant the pieces that were included were of quality. Better to spend the art budget on a really nice cover and have an all-text interior than produce books that look like DC:TAS, IMO.

The content of this book, typos aside, is looking quite good. I would think that a casual browser in a store would have a higher chance of taking a look at this content, even if all-text, if the cover really caught their eye.

I really hate criticizing HERO products. Art or no, I still love this company.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

You know, Beatlemaniac would have been a better name.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

I'm not jumping to conclusion. Villainy Amok had and entire chart and map missing. The reason you get blueline books back from publishers is so you can make sure there are no mistakes. So that's two books in a row. Is it a trend yet?

Hadn't had a chance to look at VA too closely, sorry.

Two is worse than one, but I'll wait and see. Maybe some DOJ folk will jump in here.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

It seems like DOJ is trying to go to fasts and no one is taking the time to proof anything.

Let's not jump to conclusions. One book does not a trend make.

I'm not going to get my panties in a bind until I've read the whole thing. I just had a reaction to the art.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

havent seen it yet but 27 $ is too much to spend for a minor book

 

how many pages is it?

120pp.

Honestly, not that unreasonable when you're talking about anyone other than WotC or WW given the current climate. Granted, I'd feel better about the $27 (I paid full price ordering from the DOJ store, 'cause that's how much I love HERO!) if the book looked a little better.

Still, it's on very sturdy paper!

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

Oh, man! I just found a "see page ???" in the first few pages! That's pretty rare for a HERO book.

I'm sure the content rocks, but... aww, man.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

I'm actually thinking I won't even purchase HL now until after I see it in a FLGS. That's how bad DC:TAS looks.

Well, I'm not going that far. DC:TAS was obviously a minor book (one of the shortest in recent memory) with limited audience that didn't justify a big art budget.

I would have preferred less or no art than what was produced, though. Next time, commission one awesome piece for the cover that includes depictions of major elements of the book. Then, reproduce bits of said cover inside the book where appropriate. Redundant, but at least pleasing to the eye.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

The art is in house style.

I would say the book *attempts* a more animated style. It just fails miserably.

Sorry to harp on this, but even for HERO, this art is atrocious.

Re: Anyone get DC: TAS yet?

I just got my print copy in the mail a few moments ago.

The chapter break pages for the Knights and Powers both say "Street-Level Supers: Hudson Powers." Kind of a big gaffe.

The book is also a serious contender for the worst art I have ever seen in a HERO product. I'm going to be running DC:TAS events at an ENWorld Gameday and at GenCon. I was hoping to use scans of NPCs and PCs from this book on the character sheets I hand out, but I definitely will put the kibbosh on that idea. No way am I going to risk showing a HERO newbie such poor quality work. I really hope DOJ saved a lot of money by using these artists.

(There are a few pieces by Greg Smith which are his usual good work. But only a handful.)

As for the content, I can't say. I can only hope Tharakzog is correct.

On p.168, the example explaining how long an Entangle barrier can be seems to imply it is 1" for each d6 of Entangle (i.e., the example charcater never rolls his Entangle dice; it just says that the barrier is 5" and the Entangle is 5d6). The text above the example says that it 1" for each BODY rolled. Which is correct?