Col. Orange

Re: Ranged Martial Arts: What's Your Take?

Originally posted by Dust Raven

I was just re-reading the Ranged Martial Arts Maneuvers and associated rules in the UMA.

 

Thinking about it, I can see how this would be a really cool set of rules for certain types of characters. Also thinking about it, I can see how this might unbalance it a bit. Afterall, one could either buy a 12d6 EB, or an 8d6 EB and 20 points of maneuvers (effectively giving them up to a 12d6 EB with even more options).

 

So what's everybody's take on this? Do you use Ranged Martial Arts? Why and why not?

Hmm, someone questioning the insane effectiveness vs. cost of Martial Arts in Hero? Surely not...

I like Ranged Martial Arts and see them as no more abusive than regular Martial Arts.

Are there any real limitations?

Range? (12D6 has 60" range vs. 40" range for 8D6 +4 DC, y'know, for when a fight is ever over that kind of distance.)

Spreading attacks? But then the 8D6 guy isn't that limited there either. Hmm.

[shrugs]

Victim has +1D6 KB resistance...

I'll think of something decent, oh yes.

[throws down smoke pellet, laughing maniacally]

[a door slams, tires squeal and a car accelerates away]

Re: AI Powers

Originally posted by Kolava

I've asked about this in various ways before, but now I've narrowed the query down significantly. How would someone go about giving an AI Powers? Do they need to be bought 0 END, or should there be an END Reserve?

I'd go with END Reserve.

Originally posted by Kolava

More importantly, these powers (notably mental powers) would bring the AI into certain situations where it would have an advantage, and I am wondering if this is fair. As it currently stands, an AI with Mind Scan and Ego Attack can pin down and assault a distant mentalist, but, having no Stun, it would be invulnerable to any counter attacks.

Then the mentalist being assaulted should have trained in more varied powers. Like:

ShapeShift, Mental group

RKA; BOECV, Does Body - unless Super AI has bought more, I think they only have 1 Body, and even if they've bought Mental Defense they might not have bought Damage Resistance for it...

Thing is, Entangles an all or nothing thing - you're either restrained by the Entangle or you're not.

Drugs/chemicals have to work out of you system, you don't just shrug off their effect and you're as good as new. Drain is probably a better way of doing it - Drain STR? (If your STR hits zero or less do you have to start making STR rolls to do anything, like with EGO and INT?)

A couple of related questions:

1) Dryad the Plant-Girl has 35 STR and 15" Swinging Usable as an Attack - as long as it's approved by GM, a legal choice of power, yes? That is, there's nothing dangerously abusive there, right?

2) Power-Thug half moves out of a warehouse shooting - Dryad's vines whip out, latch onto him and Swing him into an adjacent building - would this be a Move Through, using Dryad's STR damage + 3D6 for Speed?

3) Uberman flies into combat at 30", keen to avenge Power-Thug. Dryad tries the same trick with him - whose STR and Speed are used?

Thanks,

Col. Orange

These things usually end up as popularity contests. So Catwoman.

Have I got this right?:

If a character buys an AI straight (no limitations), it shares his Body (i.e. it dies only when he does).

If he buys it on a Focus (be it armoured lap-top or module on his Steel-Man armour) it gains one point of DEF for every five points that HE spent on it (i.e. before the 1:5 ratio thing).

Yes?

GURPS is GREAT for small scale, low point stuff but cack for high powered stuff (In GURPS Black Ops it became hard to tell any of our characters apart - even though we were all from different departments (I was a Tech Op, and was as good a shot as the Combat Op, who was as good a sneak as the Security Op, who was as good a, uh, Programmer as the Science Op, who was as good an Electrician as my Tech Op) and GURPS Supers is beyond the work of the devil - its the work of something far worse).

Main complaints are:

1) Too few Stats - even making Willpower and Perception (Alertness/Acute Senses) separate stats doesn't fix this.

2) Passive Defense - fixable (either ignore it or say any hit that is dodged/blocked/parried only by the amount of PD still hit but at reduced (half?) damage (makes a "glancing blow" with a two handed axe still dangerous)).

3) Defense vs. Close Combat (Grappling) - If you're swinging a bastard sword about, a wrestler can still just walk up to you and grab you. The only way of stopping this happening is keep 2 hexes between you and him at all times (in which case he may simply try to Slam you) or take a "Step & Wait" maneuver and hope that you hit, do enough damage to kill him or mess up his attack (unless he's got High Pain Threshold) - and even if you hit, he gets his full defenses (Yup, you can walk up to someone, dodging or parrying their weapon, AND grab them about the neck, all within one second and without any penalty).

[pant, pant, pant]

Excuse me, I have issues.

HERO is great for high powered stuff but clunky for low powered stuff (with NCM all characters become quite similar fairly quickly).

Ravenstorm, wing-ed vigilante, has a multipower consisting of various mini-grenades – glue, flash, thermite (you get the idea).

If he buys Autofire[3] on each Slot he can now lob 3 of ONE type of mini-grenade per phase (phase one he throws three smoke bombs, phase two three thermite, etc).

If he buys the Autofire on the Reserve instead, can he now switch slots with the phase (phase one he throws one smoke bomb, one thermite and one glue)? Rules wise, I think the guy would need to buy Variable Slots but it doesn’t feel right (Why’s the thermite suddenly burning less hot? Why’s the smoke cloud smaller than usual?).

Would you guys allow him to mix and match?

"AoE Line" naked advantage on PD/ED?

Originally posted by austenandrews

Eh, don't lose any sleep over real-world complexity. We're playing games here, not running scientific simulations.

 

-AA

Of course, someone could start a Science Hero campaign just to prove you wrong.

My 2p. I like the Avengers... well, I like Cap. and Thor, but the JLA are on a whole other power level.

Cap. vs. Batman: Batman's a better all round and more varied combatant but Cap.'s stronger and far more agile - they'd tie each other up for years, neither winning.

Supes vs. Thor: Thor may have magic lightning (he can use it indoors, in space, in the sewers...) but Supes is stronger and far faster - an exhausting brawl but Supes'd stagger away (after checkin' Thor was okay of course).

WW vs. Herc.: Herc. would have his ass handed to him, not because he's weaker or a worse fighter, just because he'd be awful distracted.

How about:

Detect "Heart beat"; Ranged, Reduced by DEF -1/4

[bLINKS]

So, to sum up, are we saying Arrows should be low DC AP attacks?

Re: How Much Is Too Much?

Originally posted by Syberdwarf2

...the one that really concerns me is a 10d6 HKA.

[steaming hot coffee squirts out of nose]

Re: Re: Non-Inherent Senses

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Rust it?

Melt it?

Transmute it to a softer metal?

and it repairs itself at 5pt/turn

Re: INT & PRE Skill Levels

Originally posted by Dust Raven

It costs 5 points to buy a +1 with all Intellect Skills.

or...

It cost 5 points to buy 5 INT, getting a +1 with all Intellect Skills, +1 to the PER Roll, and a bonus on things like Universal Translator.

or...

2D6 HA; Hand to Hand Attack [-1/2] = 10a/7r

vs.

10 STR; No Figured Stats [-1/2] = 10a/7r

Both add 2DC, but STR adds to STR rolls, damage/distance of thrown objects, damage of HKAs, breaking out of Grabs...

Don't know how FRED explains it but GURPS (waits for the hurled rocks... no, safe) bases it of Intelligence because a single roll is used both to detect an object and to understand it's significance.

Originally posted by badger3k

a doll with BIG bug eyes - you'd habe to lose perception as your eyes popped out of your head!

Great, shrinking turns you Manga.

With the Advantages required for true Telekinesis/Psychokinesis, does anyone else find it an overpriced power?

I was thinking it might be better just to buy a Multipower with an IPE EB in one slot and Stretching (doen't cross intervening space) PLUS some STR.

Of course, you'd be running these powers off of OCV as they stand...

Originally posted by Trebuchet

My favorite OPC is still "Energy Blast, Physical."

Lawyering this: It's a kinetic energy blast

Something else to think about...

A mage, knowing about your magical defenses uses magic to transmute air into high velocity plasma.

The plasma isn't magical, only the manner in which it was created was.

see also: magically calls down natural lightning

see also: throws sharp things at you with telekinesis

see also: ...

Have fun mage-slayer

This is why I love these boards - always a smart new way of looking at things.

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

This depends on what the GM will or won't allow. Just as easily, one can take a Follower who is designed as a well-rounded human being, and spends points on skills, abilities and stats (eg. comeliness) which will not be hugely combat effective, and the other builds a BattleDroid 100% directed at combat. Assuming equal base points and equal disad's, both pay the same costs but oe gets a more efficient construct than the other.

I see what your saying but both Follower types are equally usefull.

My friend wrote up the videogame character Stryder and bought Outrider as a fairly cheap but effective combat machine.

I've got a Punisher/Crow type character with a Crow called Loki as his Follower. Loki's mean old bird who stays well out of combat, but acts as a spy and spiritual guide for my PC.

Both of us have enjoyed and benefited equally from having a Follower, even though they're designed for completely different things.

That's not to say I believe the current structure is perfect. I have "difficulties" with the Specific Person is always +1 rule. Again referring to our hypothetical two guys, one takes Summon Police Officer (generic). The other Summons a Specific Police Officer (+1 advantage) with similar/identical stats. If both are badly injured today in a skirmish, the guy who paid half the points gets a fresh one when he Summons tomorrow, and the guy who paid twice as much gets a badly wounded person. Refresh my memory - who had an advantage?

Totally agree. But... Specific beings know specific things. I want to summon Lt. Briggs of Homicide 'cause I know he's been assigned the case my Vigilante is also investigating I need him specificly, not random Cop #1.

Well, first off your Summon is slavishly loyal (eg. will commit suicide on command) and I don't see followers coming with the same loyalty.

As can your Follower be - for free. The suggestion you made to have this cost points makes more and more sense - maybe an Advantage like Summon, maybe having Follower as an Independent Summoned thing that "Arrives under it's own power".

Duplication or Multiform? Probably not me. I say probably because I hate to shut out a reasonable construct I may not have considered (eg. Multiform into a T Rex).

Yeah, but should the T-Rex be built on more points than any member of the rest of the team? Seems a little unfair - One guy makes a Detective, another a Brick the third makes a Multiform Detective/Brick...

Summon? Well, maybe. Sumoning a 400 point being costs you 8 END. Since he's not amicable at that level, you need an Ego vs Ego contest for control - and your roll is -8, so you'll have to persuade him somehow.

 

But I still believe that much of the problem lies in the lack of playtesting of these abilities, so their costs may not perfectly align. For example:

- why isn't Duplicate a form of Summon? All it does is Summon another you.

- why are Multiform and Duplicate generally worth the same amount? One puts two characters on the battlefield and one changes an existing character. Maybe it's reasonable - Multiform builds in a complete change to the character where Duplicsate requires a +1 advantage for this.

- what about the "twice as many for +5 points" rule? Consider Summoning 8 100 point creatures (no advantages) costs 35 points. Or I could Summon a 175 point creature which spends 75 points buying 128 duplicates which Cannot Recombine and each have 100 points (and only the base form has Duplication)

- why isn't Follower a variation on Summon, or Summon an advantage for Follower? They both serve the same purpose - give me a helper.

 

All of these merit a pretty close examination under the GM microscope to ensure they're reasonable. That includes both not overpowered for their cost, and not overpriced for their power.

Valid points all. I guess the general rule is the same for any other power - GM has to tread carefully and not let anything too dangerous through.

Thanks Hugh, gave me a lot to think about.

Not sure I like how Summon works. I can see unscrupulous players choosing “efficient†SFX for the same basic character.

Actually that’s a bit cynical. I can see two players picking different SFX but similar powers and one getting an unfair advantage over the other.

E.g. Two Summoners. One summons battle daemons with 0pt disadvantages such as x2 damage from Holy SFX or Iron, various Psych Lims, maybe Hunted by Angels, etc. The other summons equally capable artificially intelligent battle robots (SFX is nanites building them real quick from dirt or rock or concrete of whatever) with NO disadvantages (high tech so EMP hardened electronics, advanced AI design so stable, flawless psyche…).

Both powers cost the same, but our occult friend gets penalised – hardly seems fair.

Letting Followers have disadvantage points and Summoned stuff not seems wrong too.

30pts of Follower gets you 150 base points and maybe 150 disadvantage points with the “Totally Loyal†Psych Lim (which is 0pt as it benefits the PC).

30pts of Devoted (+1 advantage) Summoned Follower gets you 75 base points and 0 disadvantage points. ¼ of the total points for the ability to Summon another Follower when your old one gets killed? Seems pricey when you consider the points for the regular Follower don’t disappear if the Follower dies.

Of course a regular Follower can get kidnapped or may not be around to untie our Hero (though depending on SFX (again) the Hero may not be able to use Summon all the time – “I’ve consecrated the ground, you’ll not be able to summon your hellish minions to help you now!â€).

The limits on some 1:5 powers/perks not being 1:5 for any points greater than those of the PC isn’t really a limit either – what GM in his right mind is going to let a player build a character with a power that basically generates more points than the character has anyway?

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Tron bikes can turn 90 degrees at full speed and, IIRC, take less than a second to "Load". Probably best to buy it as straight Running, maybe with Visible (brightly coloured, trail, noisy).

Re: Follower Vs Summon

Originally posted by Sociotard

Why does using disadvantage points (up to the campaing limit)offset the cost of buying Followers, Bases, and Vehicles, but does not for Duplicates, Multiforms and (most of all) Summons?

I'm pretty sure they do get points for their disadvantages. Seems logical anyway - why would you go to the trouble of thinking'em up otherwise.

Originally posted by Trebuchet

...so I partially simulate it with a Teleport like Blue did. Unfortunately, you can't get velocity modifiers for a Teleport, and I wanted something that would allow bouncing around corners.

Am I right in thinking you want to simulate your chaotic movements being hard to predict (and so hard to defend against)?

How about IPE: Vision on your Leaping? (or IPE: Vision w/RASR: Acrobatics?)