rravenwood

Thanks lemming - I agree that the 2nd edition cover essentially being a grayscale version of the "regular" 1st edition cover (granting the layout tweaks) is strongly suggestive that the "alternate" cover is older, probably the original printing.

Similar to my last post, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on printings of First Edition. Up until very recently, the only cover I had ever seen for 1st edition (including the beat-up copy I acquired a while ago) looked like this: I recently picked up a different copy (in better shape, but missing the character sheets), but the front cover is different: Notice the lack of author credits, and also notice that instead of the old Hero Games logo in the lower-right corner, it merely says "A HERO GAME". This makes me think that it was an earlier printing. The interior contents appear identical (upon casual side-by-side comparison) save for the size of the page contents, and the darkness of the print. The page contents in the "alternate" version (lacking Mac Donald and Peterson's names on the cover) are larger than in my other copy (with the names on the cover) - they look identical, but the pages in the "alternate" version have at least 1/4" less margin around each page (as if they zoomed further in on the original manuscript pages when making the photographic plates for printing [or however the process works]). The print is somewhat lighter in the "alternate" version - not horribly so, but noticeable when compared to the other copy. At any rate, I'm always curious about the history of the game, so if anybody has any recollections to share about these slightly different printings, I'm all ears!

No problem - hope you kick the germs to the curb soon!

I did point out that the 1st edition attribution was wrong, but thanks for making sure that was understood

Thanks for checking it out, stardogchamp! My copy is also 80 pages, with page 80's page number being a little smaller - I don't believe that any radical changes (rules changes) were made between different printings of 2nd edition, but you've confirmed that at least some of the mistakes were eventually corrected. I wonder if an errata sheet was ever made available by Hero Games way back when...

I'm still puttering around back in the musty archives... The following certainly isn't of world-shaking importance, but I'm curious nonetheless. The copy of 2nd edition Champions (1982) that I own doesn't indicate which printing it is; I've assumed that it's a first printing. In poking around the Web, I've run across this title page scan which shows the existence of a "Fourth Printing July 1983": (This is clearly from 2nd edition, even though the source page - http://championsonline.wikia.com/wiki/File:Champions_%281st_Edition%29_Page_1.png - calls it 1st edition. Going to the source page, BTW, will let you see a higher-resolution image.) Additionally, the Hero Games address is different; my older printing has a Harbor Blvd., Belmont address. This makes me wonder if there are any copies out there that indicate second or third (or fifth?) printings, but more importantly, if they made the effort to update this page to indicate that it was a fourth printing, did they also make an effort to fix any of the typos and pasteup errors that were present in earlier printings? (Or did they merely make the change to this page because they primarily wanted to show their new address?) If anyone reading this has a fourth printing copy, I'd be interested to know what it shows for the following (example text here quoted from my own copy): Page 19: The cost summary for Entangle shows "Cost = 5 pts. for 1d6 of Entangle" even though the Power description gives the correct cost of 10 pts. per die. Page 19: The cost summary for Extra Limb doesn't exist, but is instead the correct cost summary for Entangle, giving "Cost = 10 pts. for 1d6 of Entangle.". Page 56: (2nd column, 5th paragraph from top) "A character may do Haymakers with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack. He multiplies his STR by 1 before dividing by 15 to get dice of damage bonus." It's pretty clear that a space was left for a "1/2" character that was forgotten or fell off the pasteup; it should clearly read "multiplies his STR by 1 1/2". There are other typos, but I figure if they made any corrections at all in later printings of second edition, the above examples should have been resolved (particularly the Entangle / Extra Limb mixup). Thanks!

Great, thank you so much pruttm!

I had looked before I posted, but I've just gone back and looked again (Free Stuff and Links) and I'm not seeing anything for 1st-edition. If I'm being blind, please point me in the right direction I've also searched on Google (web & images) with no luck, although my Google-fu may be lacking.

I'm not holding my breath on this, but if you never ask... I've very recently picked up a quite worn copy of Champions 1st edition (1981). Having started under 2nd edition way back when, I've always been curious as to what the differences in 1st edition were. I eventually intend to scan it in, clean it up and make myself a PDF for my own personal use [emphasis on that - I'm not looking for trouble!], but there is one page that is unfortunately too damaged to digitally "clean": a previous owner colored in one of the character sheet illustrations with permanent inks: This pose is very similar to one of the 2nd edition character sheets, but has some minor differences (common to the 1st-edition character sheets: dashed lines around the forearms, ankles, top of head; relatively little facial detail). If anyone out there has a relatively clean copy of the above character outline and would be willing to scan a 300dpi lossless-format copy (.png or .tiff would be fine), that would be most awesome! Of much less importance would be scans of decent-quality front and back covers (my copy is very scuffed up and bent, has small tears, and has an old price tag in one corner), but I can definitely live without those. rravenwood

I know it's really off-topic, but to ensure the historical record is correctly represented: Chainmail was created by Gary Gygax and Jeff Perren. Dave Arneson made use of the Chainmail rules in his Blackmoor game, which in turn inspired Gygax and thence lead to his collaboration with Arneson that resulted in the original D&D rules. Back on topic, I agree with the rest of your point that while there certainly are and have been plenty of non-intellectual gamers, the originators and early adopters of role-playing tended to be well-educated and rather intellectual, and also tended to have strong wargaming backgrounds. As with all sweeping generalizations, there were undoubtedly exceptions, but the days of maladjusted high-schoolers being (or at least being perceived as) most representative of the typical role-player seems to have come a little later.

I like it, but for it to be even more helpful to beginners (or folks who haven't played for a long time and may have forgotten some of the basics), could you add at the beginning the most essential stats (STR, DEX, CON, SPD, BODY, STUN, END) for both Sebastian and Abraxas? Additionally, while the END usage totals given during the Post-Segment 12 Recoveries are good, how about also listing the END costs for each move and maneuver as they are performed? I think that would really help someone follow along.

Re: 1st edition Fantasy Hero: other changes in later printings? Yes, what was the fate of your play-test edition?

Re: 1st edition Fantasy Hero: other changes in later printings? Thanks for the answer Chris! I believe I had originally purchased the book when it was first released (having started playing 2nd-edition Champions a couple years earlier), so my current copy is undoubtedly identical to the old one - I just don't remember the errors/repetitions in the text (which is understandable considering how far back it was...)

Hello, I've been lurking here for quite some time, but have only registered very recently. I played HERO System up until about 20 years ago, then stopped RPGing altogether and sold off my books. Having unearthed a box of my old campaign notes, characters, and other gaming materials which I had held onto even though I got rid of the rule books, my interest has re-awakened, and now I'm enjoying going back and re-acquainting myself with the hobby of my younger days (boy, that makes me sound older than I feel...). At any rate, both for nostalgia and to make sense of those old campaign notes, I've picked up a copy of 1st edition Fantasy Hero, which says "First Printing June 1985". In an old thread here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/36747-Original-Fantasy-Hero -- I didn't want to necro-post something that far back...) there is a reference to later printings that incorporated the errata/changes included in the Magic Items and The Spell Book supplements (which I've also re-acquired). My question for any old-timers (or young collectors!) with a later printing of 1st ed. is if the inclusion of the errata was the only real difference from the first printing? I ask because there are several errors of repetition in the text of the first printing. For example, the last two paragraphs on p.15 are nearly identical to the first two paragraphs on p.16; on p.45 the last three paragraphs of the Transform effect description consist of a sandwich of two nearly identical paragraphs with an incomplete paragraph fragment in between; on p.47 the second and third paragraphs of the Delayed Effect advantage are nearly identical; etc. (those are just ones that I could find quickly by flipping through the book, there are more.) I know that this is of no real consequence, as the rules are still pretty clear (and I can always reference other Hero System books/editions if something is particularly confusing), but I'm curious nonetheless. I'm enjoying going back through the old material and seeing how much I remember (and how much I don't!). Maybe in a couple years when the kids are older, I might run them through some Fantasy Hero adventures! Thanks in advance! rravenwood