rravenwood

I do remember there were different printings at the time.  (sorta annoyed, just did a sorting of all my champs books and seem to be missing my first editions.)

 

The second edition I have is a grayscale of the upper cover which makes me think the bottom cover picture is an older one.

 

Hmm, I thought it was exact, but it's not.

 

The hand in the lower left is gone, and they played with the fonts and placement of "The super hero role playing game" and "By steve peterson and george macdonald" so they don't interact with the guys fist.

 

Thanks lemming - I agree that the 2nd edition cover essentially being a grayscale version of the "regular" 1st edition cover (granting the layout tweaks) is strongly suggestive that the "alternate" cover is older, probably the original printing.

Similar to my last post, I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on printings of First Edition.  Up until very recently, the only cover I had ever seen for 1st edition (including the beat-up copy I acquired a while ago) looked like this:

I recently picked up a different copy (in better shape, but missing the character sheets), but the front cover is different:

Notice the lack of author credits, and also notice that instead of the old Hero Games logo in the lower-right corner, it merely says "A HERO GAME".  This makes me think that it was an earlier printing.

 

The interior contents appear identical (upon casual side-by-side comparison) save for the size of the page contents, and the darkness of the print.

• The page contents in the "alternate" version (lacking Mac Donald and Peterson's names on the cover) are larger than in my other copy (with the names on the cover) - they look identical, but the pages in the "alternate" version have at least 1/4" less margin around each page (as if they zoomed further in on the original manuscript pages when making the photographic plates for printing [or however the process works]).
• The print is somewhat lighter in the "alternate" version - not horribly so, but noticeable when compared to the other copy.

At any rate, I'm always curious about the history of the game, so if anybody has any recollections to share about these slightly different printings, I'm all ears!

No problem - hope you kick the germs to the curb soon!

The Wikia is wrong. That is the title page for the 2nd Edition rulebook. Second edition are Grey covered, and in the Copyright announcement says "Revised Edition Copyright 1982" on the titlepage near the bottom of the page. They are part of a boxed set that included Viper's Nest and the generic City crossroad play mat.

 

Nice to know that I have a First Printing (no printing is listed on my copy) It is a 2nd edition book.

 

This is clearly from 2nd edition, even though the source page - http://championsonline.wikia.com/wiki/File:Champions_%281st_Edition%29_Page_1.png - calls it 1st edition.

 

I did point out that the 1st edition attribution was wrong, but thanks for making sure that was understood

Thanks for checking it out, stardogchamp!    My copy is also 80 pages, with page 80's page number being a little smaller - I don't believe that any radical changes (rules changes) were made between different printings of 2nd edition, but you've confirmed that at least some of the mistakes were eventually corrected.  I wonder if an errata sheet was ever made available by Hero Games way back when...

I'm still puttering around back in the musty archives... The following certainly isn't of world-shaking importance, but I'm curious nonetheless.  The copy of 2nd edition Champions (1982) that I own doesn't indicate which printing it is; I've assumed that it's a first printing.  In poking around the Web, I've run across this title page scan which shows the existence of a "Fourth Printing July 1983":

(This is clearly from 2nd edition, even though the source page - http://championsonline.wikia.com/wiki/File:Champions_%281st_Edition%29_Page_1.png - calls it 1st edition.  Going to the source page, BTW, will let you see a higher-resolution image.)

 

Additionally, the Hero Games address is different; my older printing has a Harbor Blvd., Belmont address.

 

This makes me wonder if there are any copies out there that indicate second or third (or fifth?) printings, but more importantly, if they made the effort to update this page to indicate that it was a fourth printing, did they also make an effort to fix any of the typos and pasteup errors that were present in earlier printings?  (Or did they merely make the change to this page because they primarily wanted to show their new address?)  If anyone reading this has a fourth printing copy, I'd be interested to know what it shows for the following (example text here quoted from my own copy):

• Page 19: The cost summary for Entangle shows "Cost = 5 pts. for 1d6 of Entangle" even though the Power description gives the correct cost of 10 pts. per die.
• Page 19: The cost summary for Extra Limb doesn't exist, but is instead the correct cost summary for Entangle, giving "Cost = 10 pts. for 1d6 of Entangle.".
• Page 56: (2nd column, 5th paragraph from top) "A character may do Haymakers with a Hand to Hand Killing Attack. He multiplies his STR by 1  before dividing by 15 to get dice of damage bonus."  It's pretty clear that a space was left for a "1/2" character that was forgotten or fell off the pasteup; it should clearly read "multiplies his STR by 1 1/2".

There are other typos, but I figure if they made any corrections at all in later printings of second edition, the above examples should have been resolved (particularly the Entangle / Extra Limb mixup).

 

Thanks!

Great, thank you so much pruttm!

I had looked before I posted, but I've just gone back and looked again (Free Stuff and Links) and I'm not seeing anything for 1st-edition.  If I'm being blind, please point me in the right direction   I've also searched on Google (web & images) with no luck, although my Google-fu may be lacking.

I'm not holding my breath on this, but if you never ask...

 

I've very recently picked up a quite worn copy of Champions 1st edition (1981).  Having started under 2nd edition way back when, I've always been curious as to what the differences in 1st edition were.  I eventually intend to scan it in, clean it up and make myself a PDF for my own personal use [emphasis on that - I'm not looking for trouble!], but there is one page that is unfortunately too damaged to digitally "clean": a previous owner colored in one of the character sheet illustrations with permanent inks:

This pose is very similar to one of the 2nd edition character sheets, but has some minor differences (common to the 1st-edition character sheets: dashed lines around the forearms, ankles, top of head; relatively little facial detail).  If anyone out there has a relatively clean copy of the above character outline and would be willing to scan a 300dpi lossless-format copy (.png or .tiff would be fine), that would be most awesome!

 

Of much less importance would be scans of decent-quality front and back covers (my copy is very scuffed up and bent, has small tears, and has an old price tag in one corner), but I can definitely live without those.

 

rravenwood

 

D&D predecessor, Chainmail, was put together by Napoleonics wargamers Dave Wesely and Dave Arneson.

 

I know it's really off-topic, but to ensure the historical record is correctly represented: Chainmail was created by Gary Gygax and Jeff Perren. Dave Arneson made use of the Chainmail rules in his Blackmoor game, which in turn inspired Gygax and thence lead to his collaboration with Arneson that resulted in the original D&D rules.

 

Back on topic, I agree with the rest of your point that while there certainly are and have been plenty of non-intellectual gamers, the originators and early adopters of role-playing tended to be well-educated and rather intellectual, and also tended to have strong wargaming backgrounds. As with all sweeping generalizations, there were undoubtedly exceptions, but the days of maladjusted high-schoolers being (or at least being perceived as) most representative of the typical role-player seems to have come a little later.

I'm considering a two-column version' date=' with flavor text on one side and mechanics on the other[/quote']

 

I like that idea! People can then approach it in several ways: read each phase in full, beginning to end; or read the mechanics first and then back through with the "flavor" to get an idea on how mechanics can represent (in-game) "reality", or the reverse to see an example of how the action can be translated into game mechanics.

So, I'm hoping you all will be honest about the mechanics that I screwed up here. I tried to take good notes of the results of a sample combat between two pit fighters, and I'm sure I've hosed something up somewhere...

 

 

==========

 

Sebastian hadn't been imprisoned for long, but he'd quickly learned the one important lesson - to stay alive, you had to survive in the arena.

 

 

They'd outfitted him with some unfamiliar gear - a stout hauberk of bronze lamellar, and a pair of sturdy soft leather boots. He wished he'd been issued a helm, but that didn't seem to be customary in these fights. Instead, he was forced to make due with a battered but still serviceable wooden shield and a heavy falchion - nothing like the smaller, lighter shortsword he was used to, but easy enough to acclimatize himself to in short order.

 

 

Entering the arena, he found himself facing a veritable giant, a fellow he had encountered in the pens who was called Abraxas, and stood a good head taller than Sebastian. He wore a coat of mail, and studded leather greaves, and Sebastian was glad to see he wasn't the only one without a helmet for this fight. Abraxas also carried a huge poleax rather than a sword and shield.

 

 

They stood facing one another, about 12 meters apart, and at the sound of a bell Sebastian knew it was time to fight.

 

 

Turn 0: Phase 12

 

 

Sebastian, with a DEX of 15, goes first, but decides to hold his action and evaluate what Abraxas does first. Abraxas lumbers forward five long steps, covering as many meters and stops, adopting a wary stance. Sebastian closes the remaining distance (a half-move for him) and attempts a cut at the big man. He puts his two CLSs into OCV, and uses Martial Strike. This gives him an OCV of 8 (6 base + 2 CSLs -1 for shorter weapon reach +1 for natural accuracy of the falchion), DCV 8 (4 base + 2 for the maneuver +2 for the shield). Abraxas aborts to his held half-phase action for a Block, and puts all 7 of his CSLs into OCV, giving him an OCV of 10 (4 base + 7 CSLs -1 for the inherent inaccuracy of the axe), DCV 4.

 

 

Abraxas rolls to block (11+10-8 = 13-) and gets a 14, just missing on his block. Sebastian has an easy target now, (11+8-4 = 15-) and his roll of 8 is more than sufficient to land a hit.

 

 

Hit location is determined by 3d6, and the result is an 11, a blow to the chest. The damage is 2 BODY, and the location gives a x3 multiplier for 6 STUN. Unfortunately for Sebastian, Abraxas has 6 points of resistant PD just from his hauberk of mail, and doesn't even really feel the glancing blow.

 

 

Turn 0: Post-Phase 12 Recovery

 

 

Abraxas used 1 END for movement (5m) and 1 END for his block. His REC is 6, so he recovers both lost END. Sebastian used 1 END for movement (7m), 1 END for the martial strike, and 3 for his STR in the attack. His REC is 6, so he recovers all five lost END.

 

 

Turn 1: Phase 4

 

 

Had Abraxas successfully blocked last during his last phase, he would go first this phase. As he failed in his roll, he is forced to go second. Sebastian goes for anther hit, and having hit on his last phase, is no longer at -1 due to reach - he got inside the reach of the axe. Abraxas again aborts to Block, with the same values as last time.

 

 

Abraxas is rolling against (11+10-9 = 12-) and rolls a 13, failing to block again! Sebastian is rolling against a 16-, and once again gets an 8, scoring a hit.

 

 

This time, the location rolls is a 13, a low blow, but one still protected by chain armor. The damage roll is a total of 5 BODY, and with a x4 multiplier, 20 STUN. The armor protects against any of the BODY damage getting through, and combined with the giant's natural PD of 6, stops all but 8 points of STUN damage from getting through, reducing him to 22 STUN. His CON of 20 means that it'll require a much harder hit to actually stun Abraxas, who takes the blow to his midsection with a grunt, but the metal of his armor protects his guts from decorating the sandy floor of the arena.

 

 

Turn 1: Phase 8

 

 

Sebastian goes first again, and would like to target something unprotected, but he's seen how skilled his opponent is, and that he's only just barely gotten past his defenses twice now. He opts instead to take two attacks, at a -2 to each attack, the first a shield bash, the second a cut with his falchion.

 

 

Abraxas opts for one more attempt at blocking. He's rolling against (11+10-7) a 14- for his first block, to stop the shield bash, and his 10 is successful, getting his axe in the way. The second attack requires a second block, at -2, for a target of 12-. He rolls an 11 and has successfully blocked both attacks.

 

 

Turn 1: Phase 12

 

 

Having finally blocked successfully, Abraxas gets to go first this turn, and he opts to take a half-move to step back 1 meter, removing the -1 penalty for having his target inside his reach, and makes a standard chop at Sebastian. Sebastian aborts this time, to block, using his shield (the +2 DCV bonus is also an OCV bonus when used for Block).

 

 

Abraxas has an OCV of 10, Sebastian has an OCV of (6+2 for the shield +2 for the martial block maneuver) 10 as well, and needs an 11- to block the attack. He rolls a 5 and easily succeeds, interposing his shield between himself and the incoming axe.

 

 

Turn 1: Post-Phase 12 Recovery

 

 

Abraxas has used 8 END (4 for STR, 3 for maneuvers, 1 for movement) and recovers 6 of them, leaving his END at 38. He took a blow to the bread-basket for 8 STUN, recovers 6 of them and is now back up to 28 STUN.

 

 

Sebastian used 9 END (6 for STR, 3 for maneuvers) and recovers 6 of them, leaving him at 27 END

 

 

The crowd is still cheering on the fight, having seen some minor blows and some dancing about, but keen to see some bloodshed.

 

 

Turn 2: Phase 4

 

 

Sebastian is back on the offensive, but is back out of his ideal range, so has a -1 to his OCV once more. He steps forward, pressing his opponent to eliminate that penalty and takes a swing at Abraxas, who opts as usual to block.

 

 

Abraxas needs a 12- to block, and rolls a 10, easily batting the sword blade aside.

 

 

Turn 2: Phase 8

 

 

Abraxas goes first this time, steps back 1 meter (to eliminate any OCV penalty but leaving only 3 meters between himself and the wall) and opts for a double attack as well. Instead of blocking, Sebastian opts to abort to Dodge, and put his levels in DCV. This gives him a DCV of 4 + 2 CSLs +5 maneuver +2 shield = 13. Abraxas's chance to hit is (11+10-13-2) 6-, twice. Sebasitan gets no active defense roll against these attacks.

 

 

His first roll is a 13, entirely wide of Sebastian as he dances away, but his second roll, a 5, is enough to catch the wily fellow!

 

 

Abraxas's poleax does 2d+1 damage (including his STR bonus), for a total of 9 BODY to the 14, a hit to the thighs. Sebastian is lucky that his hauberk hangs long enough to cover his thighs or he would be in real trouble.

 

 

As it is, the lamellar protects him from 5 BODY of damage, leaving 4 to get through, reducing Sebastian to 6 BODY and drawing first blood. The location also has a x2 STUN multiplier, meaning that the hit does 18 STUN. His armor combines with his natural PD of 5 to stop 10 points of STUN, leaving 8 to get through, reducing his STUN total to 16. He isn't stunned by the attack (CON 15) but he felt this one, and it's a significant blow.

 

 

As the injury (the amount of BODY caused, before or after the BODY multiplier - in this case x1) was not not in excess of half of Sebastian's BODY score, there is no impairment or disabling to be checked, but as BODY damage was done, bleeding may occur.

 

 

The crowd cheers lustily as the first wound of the match strikes home.

 

 

Turn 2: Phase 12

 

 

Sebastian goes first, and grimly closes the distance to his foe. He opts for a standard attack and Abraxas gamely tries to block, needing a 12-. He rolls a 14, and fails once again to block the blow. Sebastian rolls to hit (11+9-4) at 16-, and gets a 12. The hit location is a 5! A shot to the head!

 

 

BODY damage done is only 3, but the stun multiplier is x5, and the BODY multiplier is x2, and Abraxas wears no helm. He's protected only by his own natural PD, which will not stop the BODY damage from a killing attack. He takes 6 BODY to the head, and 15 - 6 = 9 STUN, and he's bleeding like a stuck pig, but isn't stunned from the attack itself.

 

 

The BODY damage is more than half his BODY score, however, so he has to roll on the Impairment table. The result of 1d6 on the table indicates that he will only be impaired for one turn, and the GM rules that Abraxas has been knocked briefly unconscious by the blow. His eyes roll up into his head and he crumples to the ground.

 

 

Sebastian raises his falchion in the air - not for a killing blow, but in salute to the crowd. They cheer him lustily, and slaves enter the arena to haul Abraxas out. Abraxas is able to stand by the time they reach his side, and they each take an arm and lead him through his gate and back to the cells.

 

 

Sebastian stops briefly, checking on the wound on his leg. It bleeds for 5 additional STUN worth of damage, and he hobbles around the arena, making a brave show of receiving the plaudits of the crowd. Another thing a pit fighter has to remember is that the crowd can decide if he lives or dies just as easily as his opponent.

I like it, but for it to be even more helpful to beginners (or folks who haven't played for a long time and may have forgotten some of the basics), could you add at the beginning the most essential stats (STR, DEX, CON, SPD, BODY, STUN, END) for both Sebastian and Abraxas? Additionally, while the END usage totals given during the Post-Segment 12 Recoveries are good, how about also listing the END costs for each move and maneuver as they are performed? I think that would really help someone follow along.

Re: 1st edition Fantasy Hero: other changes in later printings?

 

Yes, what was the fate of your play-test edition?

Re: 1st edition Fantasy Hero: other changes in later printings?

 

Thanks for the answer Chris! I believe I had originally purchased the book when it was first released (having started playing 2nd-edition Champions a couple years earlier), so my current copy is undoubtedly identical to the old one - I just don't remember the errors/repetitions in the text (which is understandable considering how far back it was...)

Hello,

 

I've been lurking here for quite some time, but have only registered very recently. I played HERO System up until about 20 years ago, then stopped RPGing altogether and sold off my books. Having unearthed a box of my old campaign notes, characters, and other gaming materials which I had held onto even though I got rid of the rule books, my interest has re-awakened, and now I'm enjoying going back and re-acquainting myself with the hobby of my younger days (boy, that makes me sound older than I feel...).

 

At any rate, both for nostalgia and to make sense of those old campaign notes, I've picked up a copy of 1st edition Fantasy Hero, which says "First Printing June 1985". In an old thread here (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/36747-Original-Fantasy-Hero -- I didn't want to necro-post something that far back...) there is a reference to later printings that incorporated the errata/changes included in the Magic Items and The Spell Book supplements (which I've also re-acquired). My question for any old-timers (or young collectors!) with a later printing of 1st ed. is if the inclusion of the errata was the only real difference from the first printing? I ask because there are several errors of repetition in the text of the first printing. For example, the last two paragraphs on p.15 are nearly identical to the first two paragraphs on p.16; on p.45 the last three paragraphs of the Transform effect description consist of a sandwich of two nearly identical paragraphs with an incomplete paragraph fragment in between; on p.47 the second and third paragraphs of the Delayed Effect advantage are nearly identical; etc. (those are just ones that I could find quickly by flipping through the book, there are more.)

 

I know that this is of no real consequence, as the rules are still pretty clear (and I can always reference other Hero System books/editions if something is particularly confusing), but I'm curious nonetheless. I'm enjoying going back through the old material and seeing how much I remember (and how much I don't!). Maybe in a couple years when the kids are older, I might run them through some Fantasy Hero adventures!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

rravenwood