secretID

Re: Help: Random Power Table I can't tell exactly what you would like help with. LL gave the answer of how to build it with the rules mechanics. If you were asking for helping choosing the actual effects (i.e., building the slots of the multipower LL described), that's a big question. You might want to pick up the UNTIL Superpower Database(s), in print or Hero Designer format. They have powers organized in a more intuitive, less rulesy, way.

Re: Making sense of Senses That's clever. Same here.

Re: Making sense of Senses I appreciate the reasoning behind this approach, but it’s nearly useless to me, personally. It’s also genre and universe dependent. “Similar,” etc., aren’t useful words to me in this context. If I’m just going to compare things and price them by taking my best guess at utility, I might as well not bother with the rules. That’s necessary with a few things in Hero, but I prefer to minimize it. I also can’t easily imagine senses that provide greater level of detail regarding as broad a category of things as does sight. Whatever those senses are, I bet a high proportion would be game breaking. I think the rules definitions are good. I think they just screwed up in the categorization of the normal senses. I suspect it’s because they overlooked the point I made last post, about Discrim. and Analyze both being relative to the breadth of the Detect. If smell is a collection of Detects – Detect Garlic, Detect Feces, etc. – then it doesn’t fit the basic Discrim. definition. If it’s one sense, then it does. But I’ve said all of that. The upshot is that I won't just compare to normal senses and price to match. I'll continue defining class of things detected, and applying Discrim. or Analyze based upon the degree of differentiation between class members.

Re: Making sense of Senses It identifies all kinds of things. They may not be things that you care about so much, or that are usually as important to characters, but it certainly identifies things – myriad foods, certain gasses, death and decay… Then I’m a bit at a loss. Much of our exchange has been on that issue. You’ve repeatedly cited smell’s inability to distinguish among humans as the evidence that it’s not Discrim.. When I asked why you were giving that such importance, you said that the importance was inherent. If your don't contend that it's the threshold question, then we can stop addressing it. You said that you have repeatedly stated a meaningful definition that includes sight and hearing, but not the others. I don’t see your statement of that anywhere. The definition stated in the rule all would include all of “the 5” senses. I would be more likely to say that sight and hearing are special b/c they have Analyze (and I would in fact say that).

Re: Making sense of Senses No - you become aware of both simultaneously, obviously. In that way, sight differs from some kind of light meter. My position that smell should be considered discrim, contrary to the line about sight and hearing? Yes - the definition of discrim, which I quoted before, which talks about discriminating among objects, which smell clearly does. Apparently I am, since you haven't proposed any reason to make discrimination among humans the threshold. I don't see that once - care to quote a few of the several times? Man, it's gotten unpleasant lately in this portion of the boards. Did everyone get all riled up over 6e fights or something?

Re: Making sense of Senses The difference is that you become aware of the toaster oven - you have detected it. Then tell me what it means. Define it, in a way based on the rules, that supports your idea that it's all about the ability to distinguish among people. I'm overcome by the power of your rhetoric.

Re: Name this PC - please? I played around with mage and math (like polymath)...never got one that I liked.

Re: Making sense of Senses I understand how vision works. As in the case of range, we're talking about game mechanics, not physics. Vision, in game terms, is not just Detect Light, with any amount of ads. BTW, even as a physical/semantic matter, RL vision isn't just detecting light; it's detecting things that reflect light in different ways. Of course, but it's not the only example. Why do you keep giving it special status?

Re: Making sense of Senses

Re: Making sense of Senses So...that sound like about sight range, to you? I'm inclined to go that way, but laziness is a big factor.

Re: Making sense of Senses Sorry - missed this in my first response. That's not the Hero definition (unless it changed in the revised). "As Sense with Discriminatory can identify, distinguish, and analyze an object if the character makes a PER roll." It doesn't specify people, and I would find that a pretty strange way to define it.

Re: Making sense of Senses Detect Motion, Detect Noise, Detect Poisonous Gasses, Detect Smoke (I've paid for that one myself!), Detect Monsters, Detect Danger, Detect Evil...

Re: Making sense of Senses

Re: Super City Don't Get Too Close Stationhouse When the city needs heroes, you should probably call some of the actual heroes. These hose jockeys are quick on the scene to put out the fire, but don't ask them to pull any victims out - they wouldn't want to interfere with the first responders. "We're called 'firefighters,' not 'victim savers.'"

Re: Name this PC - please? Thanks for all the ideas, based on what has been suggested and ideas springing from that, I'm down to the following, grouped by style, sort of: Knight Errant Ranger Strider Justice Horizon Walker Ghost Mechanic Mechanimistas – the one I've been using - made up Greek word – “device user” The "Hardware" suggestion is funny – that’s the name of the other character I’m playing right now. I'm leaning toward Ranger. Can't decide...

Re: Making sense of Senses On the subject of range (not Ranged), I'm about to run into a question about radar, and I'm wondering about how its range compares to sight's. If someone were watching for movement at say a quarter mile, in broad daylight, with no distracting movement, I wouldn't require a PER roll to see a person moving. Should radar work about the same, but even at night? - again, just to pick up the movement. This is part of the problem for me with the differing range of senses, PER rolls, and the PER range modifier. If something is obvious, then no roll is required, but if a roll is required, all modifiers apply, including range. For sight, because things can be obvious even at significant range, that means that something crosses the line from being obvious straight into exceedingly difficult to perceive, because the range modifier is so big. I adjust for that with sight simply by automatically adjusting the range modifier by two slots. I know I can apply whatever modifiers I want, but I hate working things that way, because I always feel like I'm basically determining the outcome before the dice are rolled.

Re: Making sense of Senses

Re: Making sense of Senses First, I spoke hastily about ranged on smell. I don't really think that it shouldn't have Ranged, since obviously humans can smell some things at a short distance. I do think, though, that there's something funky with the different practical meanings of Ranged. On your original, general point, I think you're working under important assumptions about what each sense is detecting, as a Detect. From your example, you seem to be assuming that smell is Detect Human, and non-discrim because we can't usually distinguish. But while we can't usually discriminate between people by smell, but we can discriminate between a skunk and a barbeque. Wouldn't the Detect for each sense unfortunately be something like Detect Visible/Sound emitting/etc. objects? All of them would therefore be Discriminatory.

Re: Making sense of Senses It’s a Freudian thing.

Re: Making sense of Senses

Re: Making sense of Senses Sort of. There's a question of to what degree the impurities are part of "air." If the gas were composed entirely of the impurities/pollution/whatever, then no air would be detected. As a practical matter, I'm sure I would give that info as a GM, but I think it highlights the difference between Detect Air and, say, Detect Gasses. Others seem interested in using it as an example. I don't think it works very well, b/c I don't think Analytical makes much sense with a Detect with a narrow definition. That's why I gave the Detect Magic example. Detect Gasses also works well: - gasses are present - oxygen, CO2, water vapor, etc. are present - those things are present in specific quantities/proportion Detect Dragons: - dragons are present - dragons are present in particular type and number - dragons are present in partiular number and very particular type (name, certain stats) Detect Life: - life is present - animal life is present - maybe specific animal type, if it's a familiar animal - animal type, and possibly things like health of the animal? Detect Lies is a little tricky: - lie happened in that last monologue - this particular part of the statement was a lie - that was a lie b/c [] - i.e., what the truth is...? But Detect Iron?: - iron is present - iron is present in particular amount - ? for analytical Detect Visible Light: - light is present - light is present at particular brightness - ? for analytical - exact color? That's why Analytical doesn't make a lot of sense to me with certain Detects, specifically, Detects of very specific things.

Re: Making sense of Senses That illustrates where I was going with the limited info. Once you detect "air," you've already analyzed something to a pretty good degree - if it's "air," its chemical composition is within a small range. Put another way, as you laid it out, what does the jump from Discriminatory to Analytical get you? I find interesting this range in interpretation of when and how location information is acquired. Looking at examples given here (like the motion detector), I'm now torn about whether I would give any location info without Discrim. or Targeting. Then again, if a human had Detect Motion-Ranged, it would be pretty strange if it didn't give ANY location info. I would definitely give exact location info with Targeting. It doesn't feel right to me to tie location info to Discrim/Analytical, but it seems strange to deny any location info w/o targeting. I'll probably stick with what I said first - any ranged sense gets pretty good location info.

Re: Making sense of Senses That's not the way I see it. I think of direction and distance being functions only of Ranged and Targeting, as was said. With any Ranged Detect, I would expect a good idea of where it is, just not quite good enough for targeting except perhaps with an AoE. I think Analytical doesn't work very well with some detects, say Detect Air, or the example you gave, because there's just not that much info to be gained. I think of them this way, with the example of Detect Magic (Ranged): Detect - there's magic over there Discriminatory - there's a force wall over there Analytical - there's a 10 PD, 10 ED, invisible force wall with a focus lim over there

Crusading lawyer and aspiring politician (yes, this is fantasy) gets framed and disgraced. He does volunteer work, and ends up assisting a senile former professor. A friendship develops, and he eventually learns that the prof had been an Indiana Jones type, but adventuring interdimensionally, with the use of a magical cloak. Over the years, the prof had collected various magical items and high tech devices. Our hero trains in the use of some of them, and gets to work. His schtick is that he's got this collection of unrelated foci. The most visible ones are: - a high-tech suit with CHARs and LS - the magical cloak, which has force field along with teleport and x-dim travel - a big ol' blaster rifle with many different settings - a charm bracelet with magical spells on charges Visually, he's a guy in a high-tech suit, a lattice-face magic helmet, high tech boots, and the cloak, carrying a big blaster. He's definitely a hodge-podge, but not completely ridiculous looking. By personality, he's somewhat bitter, but not dark and obsessed. He ranges from fairly playful (he's living a dream, to some degree) to judgmental and vengeful when things really get serious, like when others are in danger. By style, he's mostly scout/sniper - recon and plan before acting. I have a name in use, but I'm not really happy with it. I won't say it now so that I don't corrupt the creative process. I have no problem adding a background element or two to fit the name (e.g., he's got ethnic background X, or he's really into academic subject Y). Thanks for any ideas!

Re: Heromachine and similar applications It's pretty limited. Don't forget to try Coats and Pants in addition to Shirts and Leggings. I've also used the motorcycle helmet, which is in Modern Casual or something.