Hierax

Answers to Killer Shrikes Queries on Hierax's HD to BODY Conversion Hey, Ed! Was about 23 degrees here yesterday, what's that about 80ish in Yank tempurature? CON xD&D only has HP, HERO splits the concept into BODY and STUN. The CON bonus to HP is simulated in HERO by in the STUN figuring. d10 = 10 BODY +1/Level Baseline I used ever-present "0-level fighter" in AD&D as a baseline and I compared that to the "Normal" in HERO which had 10 BODY (Fighter d10 = 10 BODY +1/level x0 levels). Then I scaled the leveled class characters up from there until the maximum level reached the Absolute Characteristic Maximum of 30 so that BODY would match the other primary characteristics. Another concern was granularity of class/levels, i.e., I wanted to make sure (as much as possible) that each level when converted counted for something; a 2nd level Fighter has more HP than a 1st level Fighter and if BODY is converted HP, then a 2nd level Fighter should have more BODY as well. Uniformity I don't think that Uniformity is a problem. In part because of the granularity every-level-counts aspect mentioned above. Also, more generally, there has to be some give and take somewhere because the scales of xD&D and HERO are so different; Converting xD&D HP into HERO BODY points is naturally going to give you more uniformity because you have to collapse large numbers into small numbers. And this will happen wether you convert using HD or HP. I can see if you stick strictly to the conversion and don't buy the amount up or down afterwards it might be perceived as a problem. The thing is in HERO you get a low value (or a high one) because you want it to, not because the dice randomly gave it to you. And in some cases you won't want to buy it up or down, because the uniformity is what you'll want to ensure that the characteristics of the characters converted represent the abilities of the originals relative to each other. Back to each level counting. D12 d12s are really only used for Barbarians which are originally conceived of as a sub-class of the Fighter so instead I'm giving Barbarians 25% Damage Reduction in addition to d10 equivalent HD. Depending how you look at it, it gives either a 25% or 33% increase above that of fighters. Considering that Barbarians won't have the rPD protection that Fighters with heavy armor do, the extra bit isn't really a problem because it compensates for the different way HERO handles damage compared to D&D. Basically, either I had to reduce the amount that d10 gave so that d12s would be the peg point for the ACM of 30 (but this would lose the every-level-counts aspect for the most common class - fighters) or I had to give barbaric fighters some other ability to represent how tough they were at soaking up damage. I went with the later largely because barbarians are rarer and Fighters are the baseline common denominator class. Multi-Classing Multi-Classing is easy. It's more like 3e than 2e, if you will. You just add the bonuses. Overall Overall, I prefer this approach because it is sticks to the get-what-you-pay-for approach of HERO, and it gives something for each level (as much as is possible), and it provides a formula (but can be a table for those who prefer). I tried with the HP conversion method which looked really good at first, but as I got more and more into it and ran test conversions on characters from the modules of yore and the generic folks from the encounter tables, it became clear that there had to be a better way to convert xD&D HP to HERO BODY that was consistant across both AD&D and 3e with a single conversion system and Hit Dice was the Rosetta Stone that I was looking for. If it hadn't been for 3e scewing the old HP conversion up I likely would have stuck with the HP conversion. Anyway, I've gotta get to work, but hopefully this clears up a few things...

Hit Dice instead of Hit Points for BODY Conversion I've come up with an alternate method. The most significant change has been in how I calculate BODY -- for xD&D I'm now basing it on Hit Dice instead of Hit Points: I use *Hit Dice* instead of *Hit Points* to reflect the get-what-you-pay-for approach of the HERO system instead of carrying over xD&D's roll-the-dice-and-see-what-you-get. Essentially HP are derived from HD so I thought why not just convert it at the root instead of the branch? To summarize, essentially*, the new conversion for BODY is 10+ HD (for d10s but modified by the type of Hit Dice if different): FT: d10=100% ~ +1/1 BODY/LEVEL, +2/1 STUN/LEVEL* [100% = 100%]. CL: d8= 80% ~ +3/4 BODY/LEVEL, +3/2 STUN/LEVEL* [80% -> 75%]. TH: d6= 60% ~ +1/2 BODY/LEVEL, +1/1 STUN/LEVEL* [60% -> 50%]. MU: d4= 40% ~ +1/4 BODY/LEVEL, +1/2 STUN/LEVEL* [40% -> 25%]. N.B. For character classes, STUN increases largely at the same rate as BODY but since STUN is Figured from BODY it increases twice as fast (which makes sense as STUN costs 1/2 as much as BODY); if you don't include the figured, then the STUN Bonus per level is the same as the BODY Bonus. * But not exactly, e.g., Classes with a d8 for HP use 9 BODY as the Base Point as (when you run the numbers out) it gives a more accurate conversion overall. This gives a 20th level Fighter 30 BODY which is the ACM ( http://www.hierax.com/hero/house/acm.txt ) for humans IMCs, and 20 BODY for 10th Level (~ Name Level ~ NCM) and it scales the others classes down from there. The reason for the percentage change is that HERO is based on a 1/1, 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 scale and xD&D is based on the types of dice available -- I adjusted the scale to fit the specific system harmonics and to emphasize a greater range between the combat and non-combat oriented characters and creatures. Not to mention the fact that the conversion is even closer if you consider the old basic D&D days when Fighters had d8, clerics d6 (6/8=75%), and theives d4 (4/8=50%)! Monsters HD but as most appropriate class, just because most monsters were given d8 HD doesn't mean that is how they should be converted (IMO). E.G. tough combat-oriented count as Fighter weaker spell-oriented count as Magic-User, in between for others. Keep in mind old D&D Fighters had the same d8 for HP as did the monsters, d10 for fighers came with AD&D but monsters stayed at d8. E.G., Ogre is a 4+1 Hit Dice Creature which is very fighter or Barbarian like, so it gets 14 BODY (10+4) as a base before growth (16 with 4th ed. Growth). (the +x of the HD of a monster I apply as an extra bonus to the STUN) The rationale behind this change from the generally accepted HP -> BODY is: HERO is a pay-for-what-you-get system and xD&D is a roll-and-see-what-you-get system, so since HP are based on HD it makes more sense to base BODY on HD since HD are what the class is essentially and intentionally 'paying' for, if you follow what I mean. As a bonus, by linking HD to BODY we also get to use the effect of xD&D level/HD which is significant for what some types of magic affect and can simulate this with a Transform in HERO -- the greater the Transform, the more BODY can be affected which simulates the more magic the more HD or levels that can be affected. Oh yeah, for a lot of the 0-level or less than 1 HD creatures I use BODY = HP to make the range of BODY and the contrast between tough and weak greater for dramatic effect and for speeding combat vs. lowly minions. I've found that HD -> BODY works better for my purposes than HP->BODY, YMMV, but I wanted to present an alternative for discussion, particularly considering how big of a shift the 3e HP are while the 3e HD aren't that much different.

In D&D, Mind Flayers latch on with the tentacles and kill the victim in 1-4 rounds, which is what I'm trying to simulate. But a Drain is a cool variant! I'd probably go with INT, EGO, and PRE all at once, in that case, so that it drained all of the mental abilities not just INT. Hmmm....

Mind Flayers Mike Surbrook has a good write-up of a Bullette: http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/adaptionscreatures/dnd/bulette.html FWIW, I've been working on a mind flayer write-up myself, here's a link to my current rough draft: http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/monster/illithid.pdf I've still gotta work the bugs out of it but, basically, here's how it works: 1) the target is grabbed, 2) the tentacles cut through the skull, 3) the brain is sucked out. 1) ~ Martial Grab 2) Skull Cutting Tentacles: HKA 1d6-1 (10 Base Points); Armor Piercing (+½), Autofire (x4; +½), Inherent (+¼), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (+2¼; 32 Active Points); Strength Does Not Add (-½) (21 Real Points). 3) Brain Sucking Maw: HKA 3d6+1 (50 Base Points); Continuous (+1), NND (+1; no brain), Does BODY (+1) (200 Active Points); Concentration (0 dcv throughout; -?), Extra Time (Full Turn; -?), All four tentacles must have hit and grabbed first (-?), Skull Cutting Tentacles must have inflicted BODY Damage (-?), Linked to Skull Cutting Tentacles (-?). I've based this on the fact taht the Brain Suck is supposed to kill in 1-4 D&D Rounds which equal HERO Turns: On average, this will take your average "0-level" man-at-arms down below 0 BODY so that he starts dying the first Turn at maximum it will pretty much kill him outright. Even at a minimum it will kill a peasant in 4 Turns. [3d6+1 RKA = Minimum Effect 4 BODY, Standard Effect 10 BODY, Average Effect 11.5 BODY, Maximum Effect 19 BODY] Using Hit Locations for this, as suggested above, a smaller HKA would suffice - and I think might just do that in my next revision.

I'd like to Throw in a Throw to Telios' "Fighting Arts of a Dozen Lands" Multi-Power (CU134) but I'm not sure how much to cost the base points of a throw at. I turned to the UMA for help, but while it gives some ideas it doesn't have anything definitive on this: UMA.91, for building Martial Maneuvers, says +1 point for adding the throw element which is the same cost as adding a +1d6 of damage so that would seem to indicate that the Throw element in a multipower would be worth ~5 Points. But. UMA.104, for adding Advantages to Maneuvers, costs Throw at 25 points. So, when putting a Throw into a Martial Arts Multi-Power, should one just split the different and cost Throw at 15 Points (or just leave it a 5 or 25 points)? Sorry to bother you with this, Steve, but the section UMA.133, on Multi-Powered Martial Arts, only deals with Strikes and I was looking for some official guidelines/advice on how to expand things and do non-strike maneuvers in a Martial Arts Multipower. Thanks! Jason

Hi, Steve, Just wondering about a follow-up to this old query: http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=374 Any further thoughts on this double-dipping issue? And, FWIW, on the second point, I was thinking that maybe -1 for limiting to one (e.g., Grab), -3/4 for two (e.g., Grab and Escape), -1/2 for three (e.g., Grab, Escape, and Disarm), -1/4 for 4 (e.g., Grab, Escape, Disarm, and Crush). ---------------------------------------------------- ----original thread for convenience---- ---------------------------------------------------- Jason Verbitsky Inquired: Steve Long Replied:

Divine Hero - The Primal Order Something else of a grand scale that I'd like to see HERO tackle would be a Diving Hero something like what the old WotC tried with The Primal Order and its supplments. If not a full book, some form of Digital Hero article would be great -- yeah, like Steve doesn't already have enough to do, eh?

Roleplaying Kingdoms and Worlds - Aria Actually, in the early/mid '90s, there was a roleplaying game called ARIA (subtitled "Canticle of the Monomyth") which dealt with creating kingdoms as characters in a sizeable expansion called "Worlds". Steve, FWIW, you should be able to use your connections with "Last Unicorn Games" to get a copy to mine for ideas...

HERO Can Still Gain From Other Systems Oh yeah, Since, you said that your D&D to HERO conversion campaign is "a continuation of a Lord of the Rings campaign", you might also find a LOT of value in other Lords of the Rings games that you can adapt (i.e., convert -- gasp!) to HERO. I don't know about the new fangled stuff first hand, but the old ICE MERP/Rolemaster stuff had a lot of very useful details (even if you don't care for the system). Now, I do think that HERO can depict LotR far better than D&D or RM but there's no point ignoring the parts of the other games that can help your own Middle campaign. Just cause a book isn't a HERO book doesn't mean it can't be useful to a HERO game...

Bah, Convert the D&D characters so that the players get all the parts of D&D that they want (hey, D&D ain't all bad). And then show them all the cool things that HERO can do that D&D can't do that they always wanted to do (D&D has many bad parts that HERO can fix). Conversions are only a starting point but they are much too poo-pooed hereabouts, IMO. If you and/or your players want to keep some parts of D&D , then a conversion is well worth it. Take a conversion and use it for what it is an opportunity to get the best parts of both games so that the players get more of what they want. In short, do whatever it takes to improve your game for all involved -- that's all that counts. Jason

Great Gods, Steve! What a wonderfully monstrous manuscript you've churned out! Most impressive! I can't wait for the hard copy. Wish I had more free time to devote to giving you feedback on it. Regardless, it's good to see Fantasy Hero coming back after such a long hiatus. THANKS!

Standard Effect Rule = DC Syberdwarf2 That's a good one. You could look at it this way: Standard Effect (i.e., 1/2 the dice total) in xD&D = the Killing DC in HERO. d4 = DC 2 d6 = DC 3 d8 = DC 4 d10 = DC 5 d12 = DC 6 d20 = DC 10 I've been working on a series of dice equivalancy tables that use something like this so that dice other than just d6's can be used for HERO interchangably.

Monster Damage Example - Umber Hulk For example, when converting the Umber Hulk I used the following: 40 Claws: HKA 1d6+1 (2½d6 with STR) (20 Base Points); Penetrating x2 (+1), (40 Active Points). 37 Mandibles: HKA 2d6-1 (3d6+1 with STR) (25 Base Points); Armor Piercing (+½), (37 Active Points). Claws: Since umber hulks burrow through solid stone with their bare claws, it seemed reasonable that they could rip through pretty much any armor. I made the claw attacks double penetrating so that they could shred their way through hardened defences. (Damage: 1e: 3-12, 3e: 8-14; average 5.5-13 = 2d6+1 K = 7 DC) Bite: The bite didn't quite seem to have the same ability to shred stone but I reasoned that, due to the nature of the creature, it would still be impressive at getting by solid defences so I made it armor piercing just to give it an attack that wasn't just lesser but ever so slightly different in kind, if similar in effect. (Damage: 1e: 3-10; 3e: 5-19; average 4-14.5 = 2.5d6 K = 8 DC). Also, in the Fantasy Hero Companion (p.68) a Giant Beetle (Insect, Giant) has mandibles which to 1.5d6 HKA (3d6+1 w/ STR). I might adjust the average damage slightly to get both the claw and the bite about the same so that they could fit neatly into an attack Multipower if I chose, but I wouldn't tend to adjust things more than by +/- 1-2 DC to get round numbers (depending what I want to emphasize with my version of the monster in question). How do other people go about converting monster attacks?

1d4 = d6-1 or 1/2d6 after STR. So maybe 1 pip HKA (1 DC) to 1/2d6 HKA with STR (2 DC).

Claw/Bite HKA Damage Mr Vimes, Or if by "damage to HKA ratios" you meant the amount of dice of HKA damage, I'd just compare the amount of damage from the creature's claw/bite attack to a similar amount for a weapon. i.e., do they tend to be about the same as a dagger or a shortsword? The end damage after STR would be what I'd be looking at instead of the starting damage. e.g., d8 in xD&D is about the same as d6+1 in HERO, so I might give the creature a 1/2d6 HKA (2 DC) and have the STR bring it up to 1d6+1 HKA (4 DC). Again, is that what you meant, or something else?

MisterVimes wrote: I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you mean how do I do Bite/Claw damage differently from Weapon damage for HKAs? For normal (non-magical) animals I'd sometimes use the old Reduced Penetration but seldom for fantastic monsters since armor stopping their attacks too much would make them seem a bit less scary but basically it would depend on the nature of the SFX of the attack -- e.g., a unicorn horn might not be treated the same as a rhinoceros horn. Is that what you meant, or something else?

Randomizing the Speed Chart I agree that randomizing the Speed Chart is a good idea and I can also see where sometimes that absolute certainty of the standard Speed Chart is a good thing for the plot. That's the beauty of the (above) d12 per point of SPD system, you can use the dice if you want random or the chart if you want static, and the two can be used interchangeably -- e.g., standard SPD Chart for minor characters like 'mooks' and the dice for main characters like PCs or use the standard chart for minor encounters and the random dice for major ones where anything can happen.

Converting xD&D "to Hit" to CSL FWIW, Basically, when converting from xD&D, I use 1/2 of the BAB (or 20-THAC0/2) to determine the OCV, or rather the CSLs of a character or creature. Fighter 0 = WF Fighter 1-2 = +1 CSL Fighter 3-4 = +2 CSL Fighter 5-6 = +3 CSL Fighter 7-8 = +4 CSL Fighter 9-10 = +5 CSL ... using 1/2 keeps things from getting out of hand with really high level characters or high hit dice monsters. I tried using the 1:1 ratio before but it got way out of hand. I don't include xD&D bonuses from STR to the OCV, the STR affects the damage not the ability to hit in HERO. Just convert the STR to STR, Convert the DEX to DEX, and the levels/HD to Combat Skill levels. One thing that I tend to do differently than a lot of HERO players/GMs is use more CSLs and less DEX. A lot of HERO write-ups tend to have highly trained combatants have a really high DEX but little to no CSLs. In the end, I think that we get about the same OCV, but I like to emphasize having CSLs represent skill, YMMV.

Steve, Sorry to bug you with another couple of martial arts questions, but here goes: Telios, The Perfect Man (Champions Universe p.134) One could say that HA +6d6 (HtH; -½) is essentially the same as STR +30 (only to Strike; -½) but HA's don't get another limitation for "No Figured Characeristics". So why would Telios' "Trained STR" +30 STR; Only to Disarm, Escape, and Grab (-¾) also get "No Figured Characeristics" for (-½)? Wouldn't not getting the figured characteristics be part of the exclusion from "Only"? Also, What would "Only to Grab" or "Only to Escape" or "Only to Disarm" by themselves be worth as limitations? What about two of the three? To simulate Martial Disarms, Escapes, Grabs, and Reversals in a MultiPower pool it would be useful to know what limitation to give them individually. With the above in mind, my two questions are: Q1: "No Figured Characeristics (-½)" for STR and "Only" (-x) combined, isn't this double-dipping? Q2: How much for the individual elements of the "Only to Disarm, Escape, and Grab (-¾)" limitation? Thanks! Jason

Umber Hulk, Ogre Here's a few draft monsters that I'd like some feedback on so I can finish them off: http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/monster/umber_hulk.pdf http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/monster/ogre.pdf Thanks!

Initiatives - Roll for DEX Like STR Damage Here's another alternative: Roll for Initiative as if DEX were STR inflicting damage, highest goes first. 10 DEX 2d6 15 DEX 3d6 20 DEX 4d6 ... (Or any other method that you want that links DEX to dice.) This way the higher DEX characters usually go first, but not always. (you can use the "Standard Effect Rule" here if you don't want random but the opponent does)

Speed - Roll d12's Here's my suggestion for an alternative: Roll a d12 for each point of SPD your character has; the numbers on the dice are the phases in which you act (either reroll duplicates or move them to the next open segment). Same number of actions, randomly mixed up instead of always the same. The dice sit right there on the table telling you when it is your phase; read the dice instead of the Speed Chart. Simple.