JasonPacker

Some of this was hit upon, but I want to lay out my assumptions

1) You're only landing 62.5% of your blows, as the Gadfly pointed out

2) Sensible folk block blows and use the momentum to go first next phase, forcing their opponent to block as well, dropping the average to 1 attack per turn and 1 defense, and the attack having more like a 23.5% chance of landing after the 11- block is allowed for.

3) All it takes is one die to come up a 6 to without the other being a 1 to get BODY through (25% chance of > 2 BODY)

So you're only taking 1 shot a turn, you're landing the blow one time in four, and one in four of those hits does 1 BODY or so, you never get to STUN being remotely endangered, but 160 turns(!) later, you're both fresh as daisies and on the brink of bleeding to death from internal injuries. 

I did forget to take into account the hit location table - a few lucky random rolls there could definitely end a fight in a hurry, but the hypothetical average match-up sure does rely on dice luck to break out of that rut.

So, this is really only relevant at pretty low levels I imagine, but in a low powered game full of normal folk it might come into play...

Two combatants with base stats (STR, CON and BODY 10, CVs at 3, PD/ED 2, REC 4, 20 STUN and 20 END)

1) Under most circumstances, the fight will have to go on a LONG time before Long Term END use starts to kick in. Otherwise, we're firmly in able to fight forever territory

2) Average hits do 2 BODY and 7 STUN, which causes 5 STUN. It'll take a long time even with above average rolls, to get to 0 STUN, let alone -11 where a person'll stay down for a sec.

3) Every below average hit (0 or 1 BODY) is just as irrelevant, but every above average hit (3 or 4 BODY) slowly whittles away at the BODY score, which doesn't recover during combat.

So two untrained guys beating each other up leads to nobody ever getting worn out, knockouts requiring a remarkable string of luck to happen at all, and the vast majority of fights ending with fully conscious characters beating one another to death.

What am I missing?

If you turn light into just a Change Environment "minor environmental effect" power rather than needing the perception roll offset, its a lot cheaper and more appropriate to the effect.  10 active points is a lot of power for just negating ordinary darkness.  It would have no effect on a darkness power, and would be very visible.

I'm not sure how to stat that using 6e - there's no option that I recall for minor environmental effect. Might be an idiosyncrasy of the version though.

On Unstoppable - do you mean for it to include Dive for Cover, as mentioned above? I can see this being applicable to a power that only needs to make contact, like an electrical attack that, even if you block it, you're getting jolted, but it doesn't quite match up with that end goal if you include Area Effect powers and don't allow people to still dive for cover. So I'm curious.

Liking the spirit of the "extra BODY from too much STUN" but strangely need help in the other direction. Put two STR 10, PD 2, REC 4 guys into a brawl and one of them is going to wind up dead before either one is unconscious, more often than not, and ain't nobody running out of END.

FWIW, in my own game, I think I'll go back to the old ways:

Change Environment: +4 to PER rolls for Normal Sight, Area Effect (4m, +1/4), 10 active points

Even that's pretty steep, but a few handy limitations and it's in cantrip territory for a fantasy game, or you can go with the 16m line instead of the area and it's a flashlight.

The standard build in Hero 6th, at least everywhere I've encountered it including Champions Powers, is the Images build:

Does the "Images to Normal Sight" build take into account the "flashlighting" effect - that is, something outside if your radius you might not be able to see, but by god they can see you and you're a really juicy target for a ranged attack from surprise?

My list is pretty niche, and would likely never make the cut:

• The return of hexes, so as to promote some well-thought-out maps and minis style rules, to include facing rules.
• Movement by the segment as more than a handful of suggestions.
• A complete system for replacing killing attacks with normal attacks+modifiers
• More rules for the mere mortal end of the spectrum - not just better granularity for STR, but dealing with END/STUN/REC in a way that doesn't lead to unrealistic results from normal folk.

I'm sure I'll come up with others...

I'm going to run something using these damned Hero rules I love so much, and while Fantasy is still on the table, as well as Traveller Hero, I'm also considering a supers game set in the Champions universe.

That said, I'm not sure I'd have anything but a riot if I suggested the players read the player section of Champions Universe to get up to speed.

So, does anyone have any recommendations for how to introduce them to the world and how it differs from our own, easily or on the installment plan?

Not the answer I wanted, but the one I expected. 

If any official Hero folks are listening, are we intending one?

Is there an updated PDF for Fantasy Hero with corrections (notably the tab errors in the weapon table on page 249 and the erroneous pricing for Gestures and Incantations throughout)?

I'll preface this as other have: I have no beef with 6th edition, and think that there's precious little need for a 7th Edition. 

That said, a hypothetical 7e - I'd definitely like to see more of the all-in-one-book solutions that we've seen thus far, though I'd dearly love to see them in hardback and full color.

Rule-wise, I'm a fan of a maps-n-minis style of play, so a modular, fully optional set of rules that hearkens back to the 2 meter hex days would be lovely.

There's been a bit of 70's nostalgia going on with the Savage Worlds folks over on G+ as well. Less blaxploitation than 70s TV nostalgia writ large

https://plus.google.com/+KarlKeesler/posts/d44uqjqhaQR?pid=6119259974154007474&oid=102126505101628678823

Under the later, restricted rule (which no one seems to have realized changed in the changeover from 4th to 5th) Heroic Pushing seems just about pointless.

I expect it matters what you're pushing. A chance to boost your lifting capacity to twice what it currently is on a good Ego roll seems like a reasonably useful thing.

FWIW, the language from Champions Complete is (perhaps unsurprisingly) copied verbatim into Fantasy Hero Complete.

Makes sense as a Naked Advantage if it is a prayer that works for any bow the character is carrying (OAF - bows of opportunity), but makes more sense as one part of a multipower if it's built into a specific bow.

I'm not just a fan, I'm here to offer pro bono editing/proofreading. I'm a stickler (being married to a teacher coerces you into the role) and detail oriented, and would rather jump off a cliff than allow a book I was responsible for editing go out with even the tiniest of typographical errors.

Looking forward to the updated rules!

The build would demand a significant level of trust in your GM, but I could see a small VPP with all the "uncontrollable" options turned on. No control over what the powers are, no control over when they're used. This would allow the GM to give you an appropriate power at a moments notice - be it luck, dispel, added CVs, damage negation, transform, etc.

One added bit - in BRP, Size is a characteristic which can be Diminished as well, so you may need to stat it up as a small multipower with Drain being used for characteristics that map from BRP, and Shrinking UAA as an alternate. If that level of detail matters to you.

Appreciate the links to the older stuff, Hyper-Man. Wish they'd included a link to the proposed "exact differences between BR and 6E1+2" document.

I've never really understood systems that make the distinction. A ninja, to my way of thinking, is a specific kind of rogue-style archetype.

I'm with you, Chris. I actually usually target a sweet spot of 150 points (6e) that fits between Competent Normal and the start of Heroic. It feels like "level 1" to me, where you're a half-step higher than most everyone around you, but not yet superheroes.

The more I look at the example in the book, at the Power I posted, and at what you said, the less I understand what you're asking.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary isn't any help

Thus my concern whenever I find myself in the market for using a CE. I just don't think I quite "get" how they're supposed to work.

They're annoying without doubt, but Jack's the one you should worry about: (Total: 5 Active Cost, 2 Real Cost) Change Environment (-0 to EGO Roll or Tactics Skill Roll, -2m of Running), Area Of Effect (8m Radius Explosion; +0), Selective (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Usable Nearby (+1 1/4), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally (5 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Costs END To Maintain (Full END Cost; -1/2), Side Effects (Enemies who fail the roll attack the character; -1/2), Conditional Power Must present a credible threat (-1/4) (Real Cost: 2)

Brandishing weapons, roaring, and otherwise menacing enemies in the vicinity, the character is so intimidating that enemies within 8 meters must roll vs EGO, Tactics, or any Skill the Game Operations Director considers appropriate, and failing the roll means they must either act defensively or attack the character. Moving adjacent to the character, or away from being adjacent, costs 2 extra meters of Running. Establishing the ability costs a half phase and 1 END, maintaining it costs 1 END/phase

So, this example lays out what the impact is (make this roll or suffer this fate), instead of relying on a GM's ruling like the ice sheet example in the core rulebook?

Definitely two things at work here - one, the desire to punish someone for trying to get past you, but another for denial of movement - the desire to be "sticky" enough to prevent movement past in the first place.

The former might be an area effect attack power, but the latter is where it falls down. "If you become adjacent to me, and I can see you and reach you, you must stop moving".