The Main Man

Re: Genre-crossover nightmares

Air Force One Piece

Eerie Indiana Jones

Black Adder's Seven

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

Remember now that the initial post suggests a five page count, not one. I prefer the six page suggestion though.

I imagine wider margins, smaller font sizes, and thinner font faces would all add up to reducing page count.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

If the idea is to get new players into Hero' date=' then asking them to go buy some product to use your freebie with seems self defeating.[/quote']

HERO costs money to play. That's the framework any "support" scheme we concoct must work under until that changes. Furthermore, the OP's idea was inspired by Savage Worlds using such a scheme. Maybe we don't have the whole story, but I journey to guess that it doesn't hurt them.

 

I think the perspective needs to change. It's not "here's free stuff so you'll play HERO." It should be more like "if you play HERO, here's all this free stuff." It's similar, but not the same.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

D&D compact stat blocks are a lot smaller than Hero compact stat blocks' date=' though. I think a big consideration for space would be whether you're going to provide full stats vs. asking the person to reference a rogue's gallery book or the bestiary for the stats. I think you could go with reduced stats (just combat stats and powers/abilities) for minor threats. Dedicating some pages to pre-gen PC write ups and a major villain or two seems to be inevitable.[/quote']

I wish HERO was friendlier to compression, I really do. It's a subtle detail M&M has HERO beat by a country mile.

 

In any case, I think it's easy enough to refer to various character sheets from HERO's published products. Champions Battlegrounds, for instance, only provided character sheets that weren't already published, and simply referred to books that had character sheets for everything else.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

Didn't AEG produce a bunch of D&D adventures that were only about 3 or 4 pages folded to look like a brochure? I think that they sold them somewhere between $2 to $5. Did those go anywhere?

I remember those too now that you mention them. I never bought one though (broke ass teenager then). Nice to know that there is a precedent though.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

I'm starting to want to take a crack at this myself...

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

Furthermore, how much can one truly accomplish in 5 pages? I think minimalism is the key. Make no assumptions about setting. Imply that your adventures are skeletal; that they are to provide enough material for a GM to get an adventure going.

This makes me think of Cheap Ass Games - you provide the core pieces, they provide the rules and game-specific pieces. In your case, you provide the general adventure, key NPCs, driving motives, and maps. The GM must provide the setting, players, etc.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

I think it could work for any genre. Easier to work with established settings of course.

Re: Support HERO Indirectly...

I second the notion. Reminds me of how Risus does single page adventures as well, and even has challenges in which players come up with single page adventures based on key words.

Re: What Can We Do To Serve HERO?

Hm... I don't know about a "Living City" being our sole contribution, but it certainly couldn't hurt add one of the things we could do, since it in many ways would be an applied form of "build-off" as you call them, and as I have raised have as a possibility too.

Re: Genre-crossover nightmares

Dark Star War Games of Thrones

Friday the 13th (you read that right)

Half-Bake Boss

House Party (you read that right)

Pride and Punisher

Sappho & Stalin

Re: "Neat" Pictures

Heidi Klum did it for Halloween last year. And yes' date=' it was sweet.[/quote']

Visions of Hellraiser dance in my head...

Re: Rifts HERO?

I like the chart a lot' date=' This will be abig help! I'm curious as to how you would handle the magic systemfrom Rifts to Hero? How would you convert the PPE, ISP and Chi? Wouldyou use a mana system like I think Fantasy hero does or just straitconversion to End?[/quote']

Yeah, I think it's imperfect, but it's good enough. Any Rifts to HERO conversion still shouldn't escape fine tuning.

 

As for Magic, Psionics, and Chi, it's Endurance Reserves all the way. I'd have to look into the inner workings of the system for that, but if we go with HERO's geometric scale, them every doubling shall give you +5 AP, which in 6e translates to +20 END. I don't know what the base amount should be though. I'll look into that tomorrow.

Re: Rifts HERO?

So here's a new method I conceived of converting Palladium’s MDC, SDC, and HP into HERO’s BODY, STUN, PD, and ED.

A. Palladium characters roll 3d6 for all Attributes, which averages 10.5. Not too shabby a comparison to HERO’s base 10 for Characteristics.

B. Palladium characters add 1d6 to their Physical Endurance for base Hit Points, but HERO does no such thing. Regardless, 10.5 + 3.5 = 14 HP, which will correspond to HERO’s base BODY score of 10.

C. Palladium characters vary in their starting totals, but let’s look at Rifts for a moment:

D. Mega-Damage Capacity is divided in two to get an HP + SDC total, so that will be considered.

E. HERO assumes that every +5 AP is 2x the effectiveness of the value below it. Furthermore, 2 BODY, 6 STUN, the maximum effect of 1d6 Normal Damage, costs 5 CP. This will be considered below as well.

F. Palladium does not use a subtraction mechanic like PD or ED, but here we will apply it.

G. Finally, as MDC/HP/SDC totals get higher and higher, it takes greater and greater amounts of BODY, STUN, PD, and ED to keep up, so Damage Reduction is implemented to remain sensible.

Here's the final chart taking everything into account:

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 125]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]AP[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Multiple[/TD]

[TD=align: center]MDC[/TD]

[TD=align: center]HP[/TD]

[TD=align: center]SDC[/TD]

[TD=align: center]BODY[/TD]

[TD=align: center]STUN[/TD]

[TD=align: center]PD[/TD]

[TD=align: center]ED[/TD]

[TD=align: center]Damage Reduction[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]0[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x1[/TD]

[TD=align: center]30[/TD]

[TD=align: center]15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]20[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2[/TD]

[TD=align: center]0%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x1.5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]45[/TD]

[TD=align: center]23[/TD]

[TD=align: center]23[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11[/TD]

[TD=align: center]24[/TD]

[TD=align: center]3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]0%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x2[/TD]

[TD=align: center]60[/TD]

[TD=align: center]30[/TD]

[TD=align: center]30[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]26[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4[/TD]

[TD=align: center]4[/TD]

[TD=align: center]0%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x3[/TD]

[TD=align: center]90[/TD]

[TD=align: center]45[/TD]

[TD=align: center]45[/TD]

[TD=align: center]13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]30[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]5[/TD]

[TD=align: center]0%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x4[/TD]

[TD=align: center]120[/TD]

[TD=align: center]60[/TD]

[TD=align: center]60[/TD]

[TD=align: center]14[/TD]

[TD=align: center]32[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6[/TD]

[TD=align: center]6[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x6[/TD]

[TD=align: center]180[/TD]

[TD=align: center]90[/TD]

[TD=align: center]90[/TD]

[TD=align: center]15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]36[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7[/TD]

[TD=align: center]7[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]240[/TD]

[TD=align: center]120[/TD]

[TD=align: center]120[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]38[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]8[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+18[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]360[/TD]

[TD=align: center]180[/TD]

[TD=align: center]180[/TD]

[TD=align: center]17[/TD]

[TD=align: center]42[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9[/TD]

[TD=align: center]9[/TD]

[TD=align: center]25%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+20[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]480[/TD]

[TD=align: center]240[/TD]

[TD=align: center]240[/TD]

[TD=align: center]18[/TD]

[TD=align: center]44[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]10[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+23[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x24[/TD]

[TD=align: center]720[/TD]

[TD=align: center]360[/TD]

[TD=align: center]360[/TD]

[TD=align: center]19[/TD]

[TD=align: center]48[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11[/TD]

[TD=align: center]11[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+25[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x32[/TD]

[TD=align: center]960[/TD]

[TD=align: center]480[/TD]

[TD=align: center]480[/TD]

[TD=align: center]20[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]12[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+28[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x48[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,440[/TD]

[TD=align: center]720[/TD]

[TD=align: center]720[/TD]

[TD=align: center]21[/TD]

[TD=align: center]54[/TD]

[TD=align: center]13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]13[/TD]

[TD=align: center]50%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+30[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x64[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,920[/TD]

[TD=align: center]960[/TD]

[TD=align: center]960[/TD]

[TD=align: center]22[/TD]

[TD=align: center]56[/TD]

[TD=align: center]14[/TD]

[TD=align: center]14[/TD]

[TD=align: center]75%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+33[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x96[/TD]

[TD=align: center]2,880[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,440[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,440[/TD]

[TD=align: center]23[/TD]

[TD=align: center]60[/TD]

[TD=align: center]15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]15[/TD]

[TD=align: center]75%[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=align: center]+35[/TD]

[TD=align: center]x128[/TD]

[TD=align: center]3,840[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,920[/TD]

[TD=align: center]1,920[/TD]

[TD=align: center]24[/TD]

[TD=align: center]62[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]16[/TD]

[TD=align: center]75%[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

These are assuming straight MDC conversions. Obviously, HP and SDC characters do not have such evenly split HP/SDC ratios, and they generally have more SDC than HP, so you can add HP and SDC together for the equivalent MDC total.

Since MDC is not only 100x HP/SDC but also a Damage Threshold, 6e's "Damage Negation" Power provides a handy tool for keeping MDC more balanced in HERO rather than just giving extraordinarily high BODY and STUN scores.

Damage Negation -7 Physical DCs/ -7 Energy DCs (70 Active Points) should suffice for any Mega-Damage character, though it opens up the opportunity for more variable levels.

Personally, I don't bother with literal conversion anymore, but what are everyone's thoughts?

Re: 6th Edition Heroic Action Points

Interesting implementation method. I'll share some of my experiences and house rules later.

Re: Bard villain/mastermind: how?

How would it be possible for the archetypal fantasy bard to be a villain/mastermind' date=' and what could motivate them to be evil?[/quote']

A bard knows many things of many lands he travels and sings about them.

 

In a world of magic, what if there are legends of songs so powerful, so evil, that the merest thought of knowing and performing them is enticing?

 

How hard is it to imagine the Anti-Life Equation as a song instead? Or what of that infamous play The King in Yellow? Could a bard sing a song so powerful that he awakens the Great Old Ones and ushers in the end of the world?

Re: Genre-crossover nightmares

Some of these next ones actually sound good to me:

Assault on District 13

Breaking Bone

Dexter Who

Epic Meal Time Bandits

The Girl Who Kicked the Marble Hornets' Nest

The S Shield

Winkler: Portrait of a Serial Killer

Re: Damage Die Type Modifiers

I think Hugh is right about Flash using the same price structure as Normal Damage when it congress to Sight Group Flash. I think non-Targeting Flashes can get away with the base die price -2 CP.

1d4 - 2 CP

1d6 - 3 CP

1d8 - 4 CP

1d10 - 6 CP

1d12 - 8 CP

As for Aid, I realized that Aid grants up to 6 CP and it costs... 6 CP per die. Whatever the maximum on the die is, that's your cost right there. I think Dispel is as easy as how Aid works, but divided in two

1d4 - Aid (4 CP); Dispel (2 CP)

1d6 - Aid (6 CP); Dispel (3 CP)

1d8 - Aid (8 CP); Dispel (4 CP)

1d10 - Aid (10 CP); Dispel (5 CP)

1d12 - Aid (12 CP); Dispel (6 CP)

1d20 - Aid (20 CP); Dispel (10 CP)

I'll have to look at Average effect later.

Not sure about Healing or Drain, but they should be able to use the same cost whatever it comes to.

Mental Blast though. Hm... Maybe it could work off the same price as Drain and Healing.

Mental Powers are still a mystery to me for now.

Re: Damage Die Type Modifiers

Agreed - it's the smaller dice that seem to have a major advantage.

 

 

 

OK, let's look at that possibility - 1d6 that does 6 BOD, 6 STUN at maximum priced at 9 CP.

 

Normal attack - 12d6 for 42 Stun, 12 BOD on average, against a Standard Super (20 - 25 defenses) gets 17 - 22 STUN and no BOD past defenses.

 

KA - 4d6 averages 14 BOD, 28 STUN and gets 0 - 2 BOD (12 - 18 rDEF) and 3 - 8 STUN past defenses (KA's aren't great in Supers)

 

BOD=STUN attack does 6 1/2d6 (54 + 6 AP) for an average of 23 BOD and 23 STUN - 0 to 3 past defenses, so actually weaker, although getting a bit more BOD past at low points

 

BOD=STUN KA costs 27 per d6, where a KA with a 1x Stun Multiple is priced much lower, but still has 15 AP per 1d6, so difficult to compare. Neither will be effective in Supers. 3 DC maxes at 6 BOD, 6 STUN, so should cost the same 9 points per DC in your system. Looks like 2d6 + 1, so 8 BOD, 8 STUN average, getting no damage past defenses. But again, KA's are weak in Supers.

 

Bump down to Standard Heroic, and 6 DC

 

Normal attack - 6d6 for 21 Stun, 6 BOD on average, against 6 - 10 defenses, gets 11 - 15 STUN and no BOD past defenses.

 

KA - 2d6 averages 7 BOD, 14 STUN and gets 2 - 4 BOD (3 - 5 rDEF) and 4 - 8 STUN past defenses

 

BOD=STUN attack does 3d6 + 1 (27 + 3 AP) for an average of 11.5 BOD and STUN - 1.5 to 5.5 past defenses, so a bit weaker. Comparable on the BOD front, but not on the STUN front.

 

The KA, 1x Stun Mult again creates confusion. At 9 points per DC, we're getting 1d6 (+1 would be another 9), so pretty much useless.

 

Do I get to buy "Does No BOD blasts for 3 points per die? That's 20d6 in Supers and 10d6 in Standard Heroic, both of which seem pretty overpowered compared to the options above (45 - 50 STUN in Supers and 25 - 29 in Heroic should stun every time and be a one shot KO fairly often - 2 is definitely out of the fight).

On the one hand, I concede that my method would not be ideal for STUN Only as a modifier. On the other hand, I am not experimenting with reinventing the wheel, just with other ways to make the wheel work. That is, I'm working with the possibly emergent parallel between Damage Classes as they are versus CHAR costs, if perhaps pure coincidence, and not turning them on their ear, such as with "reverse d6's" which don't exist in the HERO system.

On the other hand, consider 1d6 of Killing Attack, -1 Decreased STUN Multiplier (-1/4), which would cost 12 CP

Standard: 3 BODY, 3 STUN

Avg: 3.5 BODY, 3.5 STUN

Max: 6 BODY, 12 STUN

So, while my method isn't perfect, it's still in the ball park and seems to provide a decent starting point.

Now let's look at d2 at 3 BP instead of 2, d4 at 4 BP instead of 3, and d8 at 6 BP instead of 7.

At 12 Damage Classes, that comes to...

20d2

15d4

10d8

Now all of this is considering Normal Damage Classes - STR dice, Hand-to-Hand Attack, and Blast all could work with these price structures.

I think Killing Attacks, Adjustment Powers, and Mental Powers would need their own examinations and price structures for each die type. I'll explore that later when I can.

Re: Turakian Age meets Terran Empire

Come to think of it, the recent Disney flick "Sorcerer's Apprentice" briefly explained magic as the manipulation of subatomic vibrations. Or something like that. On a similar note, the main character has a predilection for scientific geekery, which is later explained by Nicolas Cage (and I suppose the script as well) as magic adeptness more or less - the main character has the goods to conduct magic because he is so scientifically minded. Hm...

Re: Damage Die Type Modifiers

I find averages as or more important. I also find that' date=' if we change the BOD:Stun ratio, we get into dangerous territory. I note that "Done no BOD" is a -0 limitation in Hero, but that should reduce 1d6 to 3 points [/quote']

here, I'll explore average affect on the same damage classes and figure out what that essential cost breakdown would be in CHAR:

 

30d2 (1.5/d2) - 15 BODY, 45 STUN (+3 BODY, +3 STUN, +4.5 net difference)

20d4 (2.5/d4) - 20 BODY, 50 STUN (+8 BODY, +8 STUN, +12 net difference)

12d6 (3.5/d6) - 12 BODY, 42 STUN (standard)

8.5d8 (4.5/d8) - 9 BODY, 36 STUN (-3 BODY, -6 STUN, -6 net difference)

7.5d10 (5.5/d10) - 11.5 BODY, 41.625 STUN (-0.5 BODY, -0.375 STUN, -0.875 net difference)

6d12 (6.5/d12) - 12 BODY, 39 STUN (-0 BODY, -3 STUN, -1.5 net difference)

 

Judging off of these, and without going into Killing attacks for the time being, it looks like I was close on the higher end than the lower end. It's getting late though, but I want to look into price adjustments based on average effect at a later time. A single point might make a big difference on the heavily skewed dice.

 

Would you allow a reverse 1d6 (1 - 6 BOD, and 0, 1 or 2 STUN counted like BOD) for 7 points?

Since the minimum STUN damage is equal to BODY damage, no - a "reverse d6" would do 6 Body, 6 STUN at maximum, so 9 CP, which is close to 1d6 K with Decreased Multiplier.

Re: Turakian Age meets Terran Empire

Couple of interesting ideas so far. It seems that the path is through metaphysics. Makes me think of how the Greeks once thought all matter was composed of the four elements. Four elements versus four forces hm...

Then along comes Anaximander IIRC with his hypothesis of the fifth element: Milla Jov- er... Um, I mean the "apeiron," defined more or less as an absence that balances the other four elements.

So what if this so-called "Source" I mentioned earlier was this fifth element that creates void in the elements and physical forces and thus allows for manipulation aka magic?

Re: Damage Die Type Modifiers

Not sure how characters are built in your games. The assumption of maximum damage seems a bit out there.

 

I think the d2 concepty was 1 = 0 BOD, 2 = 2 BOD, but dropping that makes sense to me. But an average of 45 STUN and 15 BOD is still better on both counts than the 42 STUN, 12 BOD of 12d6. Averaqing 50 Stun and 20 BOD with 20d4 seems pretty good compared to 12d6 (8 extra Stun and 8 extra BOD).

 

Meanwhile, 6d12 sacrifices 3 average Stun. 1d20 bumps up STUN 8.5 on average and a lot more past defenses due to volatility.

2 BODY, 6 STUN, the maximum effect for 1 Normal Damage Class, which costs 5 Base Points each, is the same cost as buying those same CHAR. I find this to not only be an interesting correlation, but a useful one for determining the costs for alternate dice.

To me, tampering with the standard d6 basis of the system is a natural entrance into "!" Territory, but I believe that if the maximum effect is dismissed, the costs will be skewed and inaccurate.

Re: Second Best Game System ?

Either FUDGE or Risus. Where HERO provides hard rules to model almost anything, FUDGE just, well, fudges everything, making story and roleplaying take center stage. Risus takes this even further with its monomechanical "cliches." Plus, they're free.

Re: Damage Die Type Modifiers

So how do each of the dice costs compare? Let's look at, say, 60 points' worth - 12 Damage Classes

That's...

30d2 - 30 BODY, 60 STUN (+6 BODY, -12 STUN, no net difference)

20d4 - 20 BODY, 80 STUN (-4 BODY, +8 STUN, no net difference)

12d6 - 24 BODY, 72 STUN (standard)

8.5d8 (59.5 CP) - 25 BODY, 68 STUN (+1 BODY, -4 STUN, -1 net difference)

7.5d10 - 22 BODY, 75 STUN (-2 BODY, +3 STUN, -0.5 net difference)

6d12 - 24 BODY, 72 STUN (standard)

3.5d20 (59.5 CP) - 24 BODY, 70 STUN (-0 BODY, -2 STUN, -1 net difference)

1d100 (67 CP) - 17 BODY, 100 STUN (-7 BODY, +28 STUN, +7 net difference)

All in all, some dice do slightly more in one area and slightly less in the other, but they are generally balanced between eachother.