Rkane_1

RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 4? RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 4? After some FURTHER *FURTHER* reflection and some very good input from Hugh Neilson, Robyn, Prestidigitator, and others. I have FURTHER *FURTHER* modified my original proposal, second and third proposals and now I offer the revised REVISED *REVISED* version. *smile*. Thanks for your continued efforts to help me test my theories and hone my output. Whats changed is total elimination of the new proposed elements. The variant should work with either Standard Block or Martial Block with no need for characters to buy anything new. ------------------------------------------------ Standard Maneuvers Block (revised) Maneuver -------Phs ----Pts -----OCV ------DCV ------Damage/Effect Block ------------½----- 0------- +0---------+0 ------ Damage Class reduction defense This action prevents a hand-to-hand opponent’s attack and sets the blocking character up to deliver the next blow. A character that wishes to Block must declare his intentions before his attacker attempts an Attack roll or must Abort to this action. To attempt a Block, the Blocker must roll against his opponent’s OCV, not DCV. If the Blocker fails, the Attacker must STILL roll versus their DCV to hit them. If the character successfully Blocks then he directly subtracts one Damage Class for every 2 he made the Block Roll by from the damage of the attack. If the amount of subtracted Damage Classes exceeds the number of Damage Classes of the attack, then no damage was done. Thus, if a 12d6 Attack has 14d6 DC subtracted from it, no damage was done. If the Blocker takes damage but succeeded with the Block Roll, he may choose what hit location takes the damage thus using any armor he has located on that Hit Location. Armor with an activation roll of 8 or less has a -2 OCV penalty for Blocking and Activation of 9 or less has a -1 OCV penalty for Blocking. He then takes any damage to the that Hit Location minus any protection offered by armor in that location. If Hit locations are not being used, the damage is simply halved minus any defenses before being applied. If the character was blocking with a Weapon or Shield, calculate if any damage was done to the weapon of shield though its DEF, half it and record it to determine if the weapon or shield is damaged or destroyed. If the Block fails, and the attacker succeeds on a subsequent roll versus the targets DCV, the Blocker does not a choice of Hit Location and it is either rolled randomly, or if a Hit Location was targetted, then it struck that spot and damage is rolled normally. If not using Hit Locations, then damage is rolled normally. If the attacker and Blocker both have their next action Phases in the same Segment, the character who Blocked successfully automatically gets to act first, irregardless of relative DEX (the Blockers opponent is delayed until the Blockers’ DEX) providing no Knockback was taken by the Blocker and he was not Stunned or rendered unconscious. Blocks have no effect on Ranged attacks. A well-executed Block can throw an opponent off balance. To simulate this, give a character a +1 OCV bonus for every 2 points the attacking character missed their roll by but only if the Blocker can act before the Attacker does next. If the attacking character made a 13 when a 9 was needed, the Blocker would get a +2 bonus for his or her attack next Segment. This bonus is also reduced by a -2 cumulative for every other Block which must be made by the Blocker in that Phase. This bonus is only usable for a subsequent attack and cannot be used for another Block. A character may Block after this but it will not enjoy any OCV bonus from their previous Block success. If the Attacker acts before the Blocker attaks, the bonus is lost. A character who has successfully Blocked can Block additional attacks made against him. Each additional attack made against him is a +2 cumulative per attack, and if the Blocker is actually struck, he may not Block any further attacks. If using the Hit Location penalty a Blocker is at –4 OCV to Block any strike at the lower portion of his body (rolls from 14-18) with his arms or hands. The Blocker is also at a –4 OCV to Block any strike at the higher portion of his body (rolls 3-11) with their legs. Characters with odd fighting styles may counter this by buying +PSLs (Only to counter Block penalties for High/Low strikes with arms/legs (-2)). When Blocking follow a "Like vs. Like" philosophy in that a Normal Physical Attack blocks a Normal Physical Attack but cannot Block a Killing Energy attack unless the character has a defense that can resist the attack. Even one resistant Energy Defense will allow a character to use a Block versus a Killing Energy attack but without that one point, the only thing Blocks accomplishes is allowing the character to choose the Hit Location that the attacker hits or , if Hit Locations are not being used, then the damage is halved. Martial Block Martial Block is identical to Block above with the exception added Martial Art DC's subtract from the Damage Class of the attack on a one for one basis. Optional Rule #1: Martial Block Variant Usually a character gets a +1 Follow-up OCV and a -1 Damage Class for every +2 they made their Block Roll by. For martiql artists who have more control over their movements, this could be controlled in such a manner that they control the outcome of their Block Better such as giving them a -1 DC for every +1 the roll was made by -OR- a +1 Follow-up OCV Bonus or any combination thereof as long as the sequence is chosen before the Block is thrown. Example: A blocker sets it up that for his first three that he makes his roll by, he enjoys a +1 Follow-up Bonus and on the fourth, he gets a -1 to his DC of incoming damage. Even if he finds after the hit that his opponent is going to do way more damage than he first thought, he is still held to that sequence. (+1 Followup OCV, +1 Followup OCV, +1 Followup OCV, -1 DC, repeat) Once the Block is over he may change it with his next block. Optional rule #2: Shields Characters with shields may be opt to use a Block maneuver to use the PD of their shield instead of making an activation roll. If the Activation of the Shield is 8 or less, then there is a -2 OCV penalty. If the Activation of the Shield is 9 or less, then there is a -1 OCV penalty. If the activation is 10 or less or above, then there is no penalty. This is free of charge and costs no extra points for the character but LARGE shields may have a larger surface and provide more +OCV with Block (only for use with Shield (-1)). If a Shield has a DCV bonus, then that Bonus can add as an OCV bonus but only for the Block Maneuver. Optional Rule #3: Inside Block If a Blocker is in the adjacent hex as an opponent and wishes to Block, they may execute an inside Block which allows a character to Block the limb which is executing the blow and not the actual weapon or fist/foot which is causing the damage. This will allow characters to divide all damage by an ADDITIONAL x1/2 BEFORE subtraction PD and then dividing damage for the Block. This also allows characters to avoid Killing damage from hand to hand melee weapons as the character is Blocking the arm or appendage of the attacker and not the weapon. The character just takes damage from the arm and that is handled as if it were a normal attack of the attacker’s Strength which then goes through the above process as if it were a normal attack against an Inside Block. GM’s may wish to assess a –2 OCV penalty to Inside Blocks as it IS hard to get “inside” on an opponent. A GM may also let a character do an “Inside Block” further from a character for longer weapons on a weapon providing the Blocker could conceivably find a spot on the weapon which , if struck, would not somehow hurt them (the haft of an axe, the entire surface of a staff, etc.) but the GM could assess penalties depending upon how outlandish or simple the character makes it sound (“You’re going to grab the sword by the flat edges with your pinkies…um, Bob…-18 OCV…Now…well...oh dear.. No more pinkies Bob.”) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Some items for consideration is what about Blocking WITH a weapon against someone striking bare-fisted. I went with this version as someone did point out requesting players buy multiple versions of Block was a little clunky and this means you can use any pre-made characters with the rules above. Thank you for your thoughts and input.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Hmmm...true that. I think Strength does play a role but maybe I should preclude Strength from the Block or reduce its contribution. If you think about it, Strength already does play a role in Defense by providing PD. Perhaps only DC's should contribute. Agreed and I think PSL's for Capioerists are the answer. Hmmm...I am constantly re-evaluating charging new and different costs for this, actually. I am thinking of someone's input about just modifying the rules as they stand instead of asking players to buy all new things. Will get back with this.

Is there any differnce in the cost to a character who has purchased a computer which is on his wrist or in his home base? Is there any difference in the cost for computers that can be easily taken away? I remember you said OAF and Focus Limitations cannot be taken for Followers, does the same hold for computers and AI? Thank you for your time.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Isn't taking a roll a Zero Phase Action? Thgis would be problematic, though, if someone had say five or six of these type rolls to make EVERY phase. Maybe a cumulative -1 penalty on each subsequent Roll after the first might also curb this as well.

Re: Elemental Control Variant

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Well, the PD with RSR option would easily mimic the little shrugs and deflecting stances of a lot of martial arts and stil preserve the character's ability to strike that same round. You could also key OCV levels to an RSR for a character who can spot "openings" or "vulnerabilities" in a stance or just the right moment to strike. Extra DCV based on an Acrobatics check (up and over the ones already garnered from a successful Acrobatics Roll) Damage Reduction was mentioned for STUN only with an Ego Roll in UMA as a character who had the ability to focus his mind past the pain. Thats a good one. Keep the good ideas coming.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 *chuckle* Sorry Prestidigitator. Though I do like your PD with a skill roll on it option. Is that from somewhere or is that a Prestidigitator original? Would there be any other little fighter things possible with a Fighter Skill roll. I like the idea.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 To add a new element of gritty realism to the game where someone with normal human strength cannot block a hurricane force punch from the likes of Ogre. Its just a variant is all.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 After some FURTHER reflection and some very good input from Hugh Neilson and others. I have FURTHER modified my original proposal and now I offer the revised REVISED version. *smile*. Thanks for your continued efforts to help me test my theories and hone my output. ------------------------------------------------ Standard Maneuvers Block (revised) Maneuver -------Phs ----Pts -----OCV ------DCV ------Damage/Effect Block ------------½----- 0------- +0---------+0 ------ Damage Class reduction defense This action prevents a hand-to-hand opponent’s attack and sets the blocking character up to deliver the next blow. A character that wishes to Block must declare his intentions before his attacker attempts an Attack roll or must Abort to this action. To attempt a Block, the attacker must roll against his opponent’s OCV, not DCV. If the Blocker fails, the Attacker must STILL roll versus their DCV to hit them. If the character successfully Blocks then he directly subtracts the Damage Class of his or her Strength and added Martial Art DC's from the damage of the attack. If the amount of subtracted Damage Classes exceeds the number of Damage Classes of the attack, then no damage was done. Thus, if a 12d6 Attack has 14d6 DC subtracted from it, no damage was done. If the Blocker takes damage but succeeded with the Block Roll, he may choose what hit location takes the damage thus using any armor he has located on that Hit Location. Armor with an activation roll of 8 or less has a -2 OCV penalty for Blocking and Activation of 9 or less has a -1 OCV penalty for Blocking. He then takes any damage to the that Hit Location minus any protection offered by armor in that location. If Hit locations are not being used, the damage is simply halved minus any defenses before being applied. If the character was blocking with a Weapon or Shield, calculate if any damage was done to the weapon of shield though its DEF, half it and record it to determine if the weapon or shield is damaged or destroyed. If the Block fails, and the attacker succeeds on a subsequent roll versus the targets DCV, the Blocker has not a choice of Hit Location and it is either rolled randomly, or if a Hit Location was targetted, then it struck that spot and damage is rolled normally. If not using Hit Locations, then damage is rolled normally. If the attacker and Blocker both have their next action Phases in the same Segment, the character who Blocked successfully automatically gets to act first, irregardless of relative DEX (the Blockers opponent is delayed until the Blockers’ DEX) providing no Knockback was taken by the Blocker and he was not Stunned or rendered unconscious. Blocks have no effect on Ranged attacks. A well-executed Block can throw an opponent off balance. To simulate this, give a character a +1 OCV bonus for every 2 points the attacking character missed their roll by but only if the Blocker can act before the Attacker does next. If the attacking character made a 13 when a 9 was needed, the Blocker would get a +2 bonus for his or her attack next Segment. This bonus is also reduced by a -2 cumulative for every other Block which must be made by the Blocker in that round. This bonus is only usable for a subsequent attack and cannot be used for another Block. A character may Block after this but it will not enjoy any OCV bonus from their previous Block success. A character who has successfully Blocked can Block additional attacks made against him. Each additional attack made against him is a +2 cumulative per attack, and if the Blocker is actually struck, he may not Block any further attacks. If using the Hit Location penalty a Blocker is at –4 OCV to Block any strike at the lower portion of his body (rolls from 14-18) with his arms or hands. The Blocker is also at a –4 OCV to Block any strike at the higher portion of his body (rolls 3-11) with their legs. Characters with odd fighting styles may counter this by buying +PSLs (Only to counter Block penalties for High/Low strikes with arms/legs (-2)). When Blocking follow a "Like vs. Like" philosophy in that a Normal Physical Attack blocks a Normal Physical Attack but cannot Block a Killing Energy attack unless the character has a defense that can resist the attack. Even one resistant Energy Defense will allow a character to use a Block versus a Killing Energy attack but without that one point, the only thing Blocks accomplishes is allowing the character to choose the Hit Location that the attacker hits or , if Hit Locations are not being used, then the damage is halved. Martial Block Martial Block is identical to Block above with the exception that some techniques subtract further Damage Classes from the attack being made. Maneuver Costs Element -------------Description ------------------Maximum Block ---------------+0pts of maneuver ---------Take Once ------------------------------------------------Is based on Block ------------------------------------------------Instead of Strike ------------------------------------------------(Abort is Free) - DC ----------------+1 pt per -1DC ------------up to -4DC ---------------------+2pts per additional -1DC over -4DC Follow Up Bonus------+1 pt per +2 OCV ---------up to +4 OCV ---------------------+1 pt per additional +1 OCV up to +4 Follow-up OCV -DC directly subtracts from the Damage Classes of an attack Follow-Up OCV Bonus is a bonus on the Attack which immediately follows this Manuver provided the target does not act before him or the one with Bonus is not Stunned or rendered unconscious. From this, the following Blocks may be made: Maneuver ------Phs ---Pts ----OCV -----DCV -----Damage/Effect Defensive Block -½----- 5----- +1 -------+3 -------DC Reduction Glancing Block --½ ---- 5----- +1 ------- 0 ------- DC Reduction - 3DC Setup Block --- ½ ----- 5 ---- +2 ------- 0 ------- DC Reduction; +3 Follow-up OCV Bonus Martial Block --- ½ ---- 4----- +2 ------- 0 ------- DC Reduction - 2DC Optional rule #1: Shields Characters with shields may be opt to use a Block maneuver to use the PD of their shield instead of making an activation roll. If the Activation of the Shield is 8 or less, then there is a -2 OCV penalty. If the Activation of the Shield is 9 or less, then there is a -1 OCV penalty. If the activation is 10 or less or above, then there is no penalty. This is free of charge and costs no extra points for the character but LARGE shields may have a larger surface and provide more +OCV with Block (only for use with Shield (-1)). If a Shield has a DCV bonus, then that Bonus can add as an OCV bonus but only for the Block Maneuver. Optional Rule #2: Inside Block If a Blocker is in the adjacent hex as an opponent and wishes to Block, they may execute an inside Block which allows a character to Block the limb which is executing the blow and not the actual weapon or fist/foot which is causing the damage. This will allow characters to divide all damage by an ADDITIONAL x1/2 BEFORE subtraction PD and then dividing damage for the Block. This also allows characters to avoid Killing damage from hand to hand melee weapons as the character is Blocking the arm or appendage of the attacker and not the weapon. The character just takes damage from the arm and that is handled as if it were a normal attack of the attacker’s Strength which then goes through the above process as if it were a normal attack against an Inside Block. GM’s may wish to assess a –2 OCV penalty to Inside Blocks as it IS hard to get “inside” on an opponent. A GM may also let a character do an “Inside Block” further from a character for longer weapons on a weapon providing the Blocker could conceivably find a spot on the weapon which , if struck, would not somehow hurt them (the haft of an axe, the entire surface of a staff, etc.) but the GM could assess penalties depending upon how outlandish or simple the character makes it sound (“You’re going to grab the sword by the flat edges with your pinkies…um, Bob…-18 OCV…Now…well...oh dear.. No more pinkies Bob.”) Some items for consideration is what about Blocking WITH a weapon against someone striking bare-fisted. The added Element of Follow-Up OCV for strikes immediately follwing a Block (or perhaps another maneuver) is something up for consideration as well. Thank you for your thoughts and input.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 But Knockback is reduced by the DC as well in this situation. If the dice are reduced to only a 2D6 or 4d6 Attack, then the Knockback is reduced and since these are martial maneuvers, 3d6 usually is rolled versus these manuevers. If not martial, then 2d6. This means for Martial Arts maneuvers an average of 10.5 or if a normal hit then 7 average roll is subtracted from an average of 2' or 4' KB on average. Reduced KB is a benefit of shifting the power of the blow in another direction. Reduced KB as mentioned above but I will concede your point on the Glancing Block. I think the increased DC loss isn't worth the greater likelyhood of being hit. It was more meant to be a maneuver against more powerful opponents but to spend the points on this rather than a dodge is a little silly now that I think of it. Point taken on this. I understand but I respectfully disagree, though I have been thinking about hieghtening the rewards for a Block as I have mentioned on another thread. I look forward to your feedback on it. I have thought about "unlinking the chain" with the OCV bonus and making it for offensive strikes or attacks only and cannot be used for additional Block maneuvers. Also making a penalty for the lower Activation rolls as well. Thank you for helping me think this out.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Why not light a candle instead of cursing my darkness. Do you have a way to make it work btter other than just abandoning the proposition and resorting to the old manner of doing it? Yep, but with Offensive strike, your opponent might choose another tactic such as the Dodge or Martial Dodge. I never intended for this Block to be the end all be all of maneuvers, just something more realistic.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 The Speedster could also just buy raw DCV which would mean more successful blocks and just Dodge all day. The Speedster could also buy DC with "Speedster Fu". But also useful if the defender is up against mulitple opponents or a faster opponent as well as the DCV helps quite a bit.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 This is why it is not a good choice for him to do against an opponent with such superior Strength. If the combatant had less Strength, this would then be a better choice. Ogre has a 10 OCV with a 4 Speed so frankly Seeker would be better off using Martial Dodge as he is very hard to strike then and can strike with his superior Speed of 5 and play keep away the rest of the round. If he does want to Block, he would get his OCV bonus but doesn't need it. For such a combat, Dodge is the superior choice. Agreed...but that is what I was saying SHOULD be the superior choice in a more "realistic" combat. With the revelation about Martial Strike, this would be: (a) Do nothing. He will keep his DCV 5 and be hit on 11-. This will average 22 STUN if hit - 6 PD so 16 STUN x . Average Stun 10 (and an 62.5% chance of being hit means about that likelihood of being Stunned). Attack Fails 37.5% = No Damage Attack Succeeds 62.5% = 16 STUN ( Martial Dodge raises DCV to 10 vs OCV 5. He’s now hit on 6- (9.3%) and will average the same 22 Stun if struck - 6 PD which is 16 STUN. Average STUN 1.48 or just 1 STUN. Attack Fails 90.7% = No Damage Attack Succeeds 9.3% = 16 STUN © Dodge: DCV 8 means he’s hit on 8- (25.9%) so 5.68 average STUN or just 5 STUN. Attack Fails 74.1% = No Damage Attack Succeeds 25.9% = 16 STUN No OCV bonus per FRed on Martial Strike. Also in our equations we are forgetting the 6 PD that the defender gets irregardless if he makes his Block Maneuver or not. Actually... (d) Defensive Block: Defender has OCV 6 (5 + 1 for maneuver) vs 5 OCV (+0 OCV Bonus). He needs a 12- to Block (74.1%). If he succeeds, the attacker’s 8d6 is reduced to 4d6 (3 for STR and 1 for DC), which averages 14, less 6 PD = 8 x ½ = 4 x 74.1% chance = 2.96 Stun or 2 Stun If he fails, the attacker needs to hit DCV 8 with a 5 OCV, which is on a 8 or less which is 25.9% chance, in which case he’ll average 22 STUN - 6 PD = 16 STUN x 25.9% chance block failed x 25.9% chance of hitting= 1.07 or 1 STUN. Average of 4.03 Stun Block Succeeds 74.1% = 2 STUN + OCV Bonus + Acting first Block Fails, Attack Fails 19.2% = No Damage Block Fails, Attack Fails 6.7% = 16 STUN So, since the chances are a less than even a Martial Dodge of taking damage but there still being a chance to take a small amount of damage. It becomes an even choice than even the Martial Dodge. Slightly more amount of net STUN but with an extra edge for success. Math redone with the Martial Strike +0 OCV revelation... (e) Glancing Block: Attack is blocked on 11- (OCV 5 vs OCV 5), so 62.5% chance. If blocked, attacker hits for 0d6 (8DC minus 3 for STR, 1 for DC, 4 for maneuver). If he fails, the attacker needs to hit DCV 4, so 12-, an 74.1% chance, in which case he’ll average 22 STUN - 6 PD = 16 x 37.5% chance block failed x 74.1% chance of hitting= 6.11. Average Damage: 6.11 Stun. Block Succeeds 62.5% = 0 STUN + OCV Bonus + Acting first Block Fails, Attack Fails 9.7% = No Damage Block Fails, Attack Fails 27.8% = 16 STUN Not the best choice when fighting an equal opponent but then if you up the damage of the opponent but lessen the OCV on him, lets see what the Glancing Block does. Opponent is now a STR 25 powerhouse but with OCV 3. (e) Glancing Block: Attack is blocked on 13- (OCV 5 vs OCV 3), so 62.5% chance. If blocked, attacker hits for 2d6 (10DC minus 3 for STR, 1 for DC, 4 for maneuver). Average of 7 Stun - 6PD = 1 STUN x 1/2 =.5 or 0 Stun. If he fails, the attacker needs to hit DCV 4, so 10-, an 50% chance, in which case he’ll average 29 STUN - 6PD = 23 x 37.5% chance block failed x 50% chance of hitting= 4.31 Stun or Just 4 Stun . Average Damage: 4.31 Stun. Block Succeeds 62.5% = 0 STUN + OCV Bonus + Acting first Block Fails, Attack Fails 18.25% = No Damage Block Fails, Attack Fails 18.25% = 23 STUN Less stun than from that of an equal attacker, skill gives extra chance of avoiding damage and gives an OCV edge and Act first edge. Again, math redone with the Martial Strike is +0 OCV revelation... (f) Martial Block: Attack is blocked on 13- (OCV 7 vs OCV 5), so 83.8% chance. If blocked, attacker hits for 2d6 (8DC minus 3 for STR, 1 for DC, 2 for maneuver). That’s 7 on average, 1 past PD, halved for location x 83.8% chance of Block = .41 or 0 STUN. If he fails, the attacker needs to hit DCV 5, so 11-, an 62.5% chance, in which case he’ll average 22 STUN - 6PD = 16 STUN x 16.2% chance block failed x 62.5% chance of hitting= 1.62 Stun or 1 Stun. Average Damage: 2.03 STUN or 2 STUN. Block Succeeds 83.8% = 0 STUN + OCV Bonus + Acting first Block Fails, Attack Fails 6.1% = No Damage Block Fails, Attack Fails 10.1% = 23 STUN This is roughly comparable to the Martial Dodge above but with the added bonus of a Bonus OCV and acting first. Again redone due to martial Strike info... (g) Ordinary Block: Attack is blocked on 11- (OCV 5 vs OCV 5), so 62.5% chance. If blocked, attacker hits for 5d6 (8DC minus 3 for STR). That’s 17.5 on average, 11.5 past PD, halved for location = 5.75 x 62.5% chance of Block = 3.59. If he fails, the attacker needs to hit DCV 5, so 11-, an 62.5% chance, in which case he’ll average 22 STUN -6 PD = 16 STUN x 37.5% chance block failed x 62.5% chance of hitting= 6.91. Average Damage: 10.81 Stun. Unless you have an opponent with far superior striking power and lesser OCV but yes, versus equal opponent, it is inferior as it places you at a disadvantage with DCV to try and plant yourself to better deal with the more powerful strike..

Re: Adjusting Costs When STR is 2 points Strength = 2pts per +1 TK = 3 pts per +1 HA = 5pts per +1DC MA DC's= 8 pts per +DC (Becasue they add to the NND's, & what not too) Sound reasonable?

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Ack! My apologies. I miswrote something. I was wondering why something didn't look right. Glancing Block and Martial Block need to switch the amount of DC they block. My apologies. Maneuver ------Phs ---Pts ----OCV -----DCV -----Damage/Effect Defensive Block -½----- 5----- +1-------+3 -------DC Reduction Glancing Block --½----- 5------ 0------- -1------- DC Reduction - 4DC Martial Block --- ½ ---- 4------ +2------- 0------- DC Reduction - 2DC The Defensive Block is better for attacks versus multiple opponents as it provides a better base DCV The Glancing Block is best versus very powerful opponents as it reduces damage the most The Martial Block is the run of the mill Martial Block especially adapted for this system. Sorry about that.

Re: RKane_1's Heretical and Audacious Block Variant, Part 2 Standard rules apply for if the Block misses the normal vs. DCV rule applies. Written in a hurry, sorry. Only MA DC's add to this, not HA's. Sorry, when the original rules were posted, didn't delineate better. Yes, blocking the legs with a Shield on your arm is possible but you encounter a difficulty. PSL's will work fine. As for waiting til the other throws his Block first then you'll be waiting a while...its a Held Action until an attack is thrown, then it goes into effect. Yep, you guessed it. Written in a hurry. Weapons and Shields get Block with either the WF in a Heroic Game or if points paid for a focus power in Superheroic. Blocking a weapon with a blade might indeed cause problems unless an inside block is used. As for the elbow pads of indestructibility. I suppose I would assess a DCV/OCV penalty or bonus depending on the size of the armored part. Good call. I frankly don't get the “I step in and grab his wrist” comment. Please elucidate. Unusual attacks such as adjustment powers or Flaming Fists require an inside block. And then, only the physical force has to be blocked which is most likely minute. As for the same Hex Rule, you could adjudicate having adjacent Hexes would be fine as long as the -2OCV was enforced, I suppose. The example with Seeker trying to Block Ogre with a standarad Block is right on the money. If he doesn't have a Martial Block, he shouldn't try to Block someone so powerful. Thats the more "real" version of the Block I provided and one of the reasons for the variant. Whoa....this doesn't make mathematical sense to me. Defensive Block garners -4DC from the attack so yes the math reduces the attack Power to 4d6 which THEN the PD is applied to and then the halving so ... average 14 - 6= 8 x 1/2 = 4. And this is all fine and good.. But if he succeeds on a 12- which is 74.07%, then the likelyhood of taking damage of 4 Stun is 74.07% so roughly 3 Stun really but lets break it down differently. With this 4 Stun comes a benefit of the OCV Bonus and Acting first. Now, he'd have a roughly 25% chance of missing the Block, thus risking being struck otherwise with a OCV vs DCV check which is roughly an 11 OCV vs. a 14DCV (+3 DCV for Defensive Strike) so 9 or less to strike the Blocker if the Block was unsuccessful. A 9 or less works out to roughly 37.5% of taking normal damage and a 62.5% chance of taking none. So a 37.5% Chance of taking 22 Stun - 6PD = 16 STUN x .375 = 6 STUN. So Net STUN for choosing Block is 9 STUN But the other way to look at it is... Block Succeeds 74.07% = 4 STUN + OCV Bonus + Acting first Block Fails, Attack Fails 16.18% = No Damage Block Fails, Attack Fails 9.71% = 16 STUN

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system?

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant Well sure, if you are using another Block Rule and not mine. With mine, more DC's in skill give you better Blocking PD. Hence, the relevance. Please reread the variant.

After some reflection and some very good input from those on the boards here (Thanks especially to nex, Robyn, and Stevezilla) I have modified my original proposal thusly. Thanks for your continued efforts to help me test my theories and hone my output. ------------------------------------------------ Standard Maneuvers Block (revised) Maneuver -------Phs ----Pts -----OCV ------DCV ------Damage/Effect Block ------------½----- 0------- +0---------+0 ------ Damage Class reduction defense This action prevents a hand-to-hand opponent’s attack and sets the blocking character up to deliver the next blow. A character that wishes to Block must declare his intentions before his attacker attempts on Attack roll or must Abort to this action. To attempt a Block, the attacker must roll against his opponent’s OCV, not DCV. If the character successfully Blocks then he directly subtracts the Damage Class of His Strength and added DC's from the damage of the attack. If the amount of subtracted Damage Classes exceeds the number of Damage Classes of the attack, then no damage was done. If the Blocker takes damage but succeeded with the Block Roll, he may choose what hit location takes the damage. He then takes any damage to the that Hit Location minus any protection offered by armor in that location. If Hit locations are not being used, the damage is simply halved minus any defenses before being applied. If the character was blocking with a Weapon or Shield, caclulate if any damage was done to the weapon theough its DEF, half it and record it. If the Block fails, the Blocker has not choice of Hit Location and it is either rolled randomly, or if a Hit Location was targetted, then it struck that spot and damage is rolled normally. If not using Hit Locations, then damage is rolled normally. If the attacker and Blocker both have their next action Phases in the same Segment, the character who Blocked successfully automatically gets to act first, irregardless of relative DEX (the Blockers opponent is delayed until the Blockers’ DEX) providing no Knockback was taken by the Blocker and he was not Stunned or rendered unconscious. Blocks have no effect on Ranged attacks. A well-executed Block can throw an opponent off balance. To simulate this, give a character a +1 OCV bonus for every 2 points the attacking character missed their roll by but only if the Blocker can act before the Attacker does next. If the attacking character made a 13 when a 9 was needed, the Blocker would get a +2 bonus for his or her attack next Segment. This bonus is also reduced by a -2 cumulative for every other Block which must be made by the Blocker in that round. A character who has successfully Blocked can Block additional attacks made against him. Each additional attack made against him is a +2 cumulative per attack, and if the Blocker is actually struck, he may not Block any further attacks. If using the Hit Location penalty a Blocker is at –4 OCV to Block any strike at the lower portion of his body (rolls from 14-18) with his arms or hands. The Blocker is also at a –4 OCV to Block any strike at the higher portion of his body (rolls 3-11) with their legs. Characters with odd fighting styles may counter this by buying +PSLs (Only to counter Block penalties for High/Low strikes with arms/legs (-2)). Martial Block Martial Block is identical to Block above with the exception that some techniques subtract further Damage Classes from the attack being made. If the character is using a Shield or Weapon with resistant PD or the Blocker himself has resistant PD, then the +PD of the maneuver becomes resistant as well. This new Resistant PD adds to the total of resistant PD but only if the object with Resistant PD is being used to Block with. Maneuver Costs Element -------------Description ------------------Maximum Block ---------------+0pts of maneuver ---------Take Once ------------------------------------------------Is based on Block ------------------------------------------------Instead of Strike ------------------------------------------------(Abort is Free) PD+ -----------------+1 pt per -1DC ------------up to -4DC ----------------------+2pts per additional -1DC over -4DC From this, the following Blocks may be made: Maneuver ------Phs ---Pts ----OCV -----DCV -----Damage/Effect Defensive Block -½----- 5----- +1-------+3 -------DC Reduction Glancing Block --½----- 5------ 0------- -1------- DC Reduction - 2DC Martial Block --- ½ ---- 4------ +2------- 0------- DC Reduction - 4DC Optional rule #1: Shields Characters with shields may be opt to use a Block maneuver to use the PD of their shield instead of making an activation roll. This is free of charge and costs no extra points for the character but LARGE shields may have a larger surface and provide more +OCV with Block (only for use with Shield (-1)). If a Shield has a DCV bonus, then that Bonus can add as an OCV bonus but only for the Block Maneuver. Optional Rule #2: Inside Block If a Blocker is in the same hex as an opponent and wishes to Block, they may execute an inside Block which allows a character to Block the limb which is executing the blow and not the actual weapon or fist/foot which is causing the damage. This will allow characters to divide all damage by an ADDITIONAL x1/2 BEFORE subtraction PD and then dividing damage for the Block. This also allows characters to avoid Killing damage from hand to hand melee weapons as the character is Blocking the arm or appendage of the attacker and not the weapon. The character just takes damage from the arm and that is handled as if it were a normal attack of the attacker’s Strength which then goes through the above process as if it were a normal attack against an Inside Block. GM’s may wish to assess a –2 OCV penalty to Inside Blocks as it IS hard to get “inside†on an opponent. A GM may also let a character do an “Inside Block†on a weapon providing the Blocker could conceivably find a spot on the weapon which , if struck, would not somehow hurt them (the haft of an axe, the entire surface of a staff, etc.) but the GM could assess penalties depending upon how outlandish or simple the character makes it sound (“You’re going to grab the sword by the flat edges with your pinkies…um, Bob…-18 OCV…Now…well...oh dear.. No more pinkies Bob.â€) ----------------------------------------------- Okay, what do you think of my monstrosity now?

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant For those interested in the revision... http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45974

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant What are their STR and DC levels, please? For me to show the math I would need this info. I guess let me assume they have 10 STR, 4 DC's and they are both using Martial Strike which gives them the +2D6 bonus. Fair enough? Attacker attacks and Blocker blocks with Martial Strike versus Martial Block. Since they both have equal OCV and the Blocker gets a +2 edge, the Blocker has a 62.5% chance of success, this is true. This also means, on average, he will succeed by 2. On to damage. The 10 STR+4DC's and Martial Strike equal 8d6 attack. This averages to about 28 Stun and 8 Body. The Blocker has Martial Block which is his 10 PD+6PD for the Maneuver and with 4 DC's, another +12PD. The total is 28 PD.... No damage done. The Blocker now has a +1 OCV his next attack on which he will strike first. Given these (admittedly restricted) choices of maneuver, if I'm going to use a phase, why would I ever choose to use it to Block? Even a basic Dodge (a maneuver I paid no points for) provides marginally superior results to a Martial Block. The Martial Dodge is vastly superior. Please reconsider with the math just shown to you. Nope, sorry. Lets reduce the Bonus DC to only +1DC instead of four then with both attacker's at a 10 STR. On to damage. The 10 STR +1 DC's and Martial Strike equal 5d6 attack. This averages to about 17 Stun and 5 Body. The Blocker has Martial Block which is his 10 PD+6PD for the Maneuver and with 1 DC, another +3PD. The total is 19 PD.... No damage done. The Blocker now has a +1 OCV his next attack on which he will strike first. I'm still picking Dodge over Martial Block, and buying Martial Dodge. So much for Block as a viable choice in combat. Please reconsider with the math I've just shown you. With the STANDARD Block, the damage is more in the examples I have shown you, but with the added DC, it is still considerable defenses. Now if the character's have just raw STRENGTH, then yes, more damage does get done, but this is because their Blocks rely more on brute strength and less on skill. They WOULD then be better off either Dodging or investing in Martial Block. Long story short, after the math 2 Stun gets through with equally matched opponents above but with 8 added DC's The numbers for this I already crunched. Its only when one character starts getting an edge in strength do the averages really get out of whack, although I WILL say that wildly successful damage rolls may make a character wish to stay away from block but with equals it pretty much equals out, pardon the pun. Yep....true. Sorry you feel this way. I do hope you reconsider after analyzing some of the math but if you don't, no hard feelings. Bye

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant Some options upon reflection... Instead of Base PD, make Blocking PD 3 pts for every 5 STR... Also one suggestion where for the Block, the STR Damage dice + DC Dice + Extra Dice from the Blocking Maneuver directly subtraced from the number of Die rolled for the attack. Thus is the Blocker has 14D Block versus a 12D Attack, no damage was taken. If the Block was for 12D and the Attack was 14D, then 2d6 would be rolled before being halved. This would eliminate the Problem of a Successful block but a WILDLY high damage Roll anyway. On top of that, you could make the Block give a +1 Dice for every 2 the Skill Roll was made by in addition to or instead of the +1 OCV bonus....or perhaps that could be another element.

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant I agree...but this is just a variant where the GM wants a more tightly defined SFX for the Mechanic. I think current Block works fine for four color. I think mine works better for a more brutal, realistic game. Just a variant. The Block Maneuver is a Mechanic and can be several things. If the GM wants it more narrowly defined for his game, he can use the variant. If he likes it as is, keep it so.

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant I disagree. Please hear me out. Two combatant, untrained in Martial Arts...average stats. One chooses to Strike, the other to the new standard Block. On any average roll, he simply takes half damage and then acts first next round. 2d6 averages to roughly 7 STUN and 2 Body minus 2PD equals 5 STUN, no body. Half it, and it is 2 STUN. He took a shot to the arm that smarted a little but gets to go next action first. He might be better off dodging. Same scenario, Blocker now has Superior Skill with a Martial Block, He is more likely to succeed as he has a +2 OCV with the Block. If he does succeed, then on an average roll he will have succeeded by +2, giving him a +1 OCV on his strike. The 2d6 averages to roughly 7 STUN and 2 Body minus 2PD AND +6 PD from the Martial Block which means exactly no damage got through. The combatant is at a slight edge, has taken no damage and act first if they have equal speeds. Benefit, Blocker. Same Scenario, Blocker with Superior Skill but attacker with Superior Strength. The Blocker is still more likely to succeed as he has a +2 OCV with the Block. If he does succeed, then on an average roll he will have succeeded by +2, giving him a +1 OCV on his strike. But now the attacker has a 20 STR and delivers a 4d6 attack. This averages to 14 Stun and 4 Body minus 2PD AND +6 PD from the Martial Block which equals 6 Stun and no Body, halved equals 3 Stun. Its smarted a bit, but the Blocker still has the edge next round though against this powerful opponent but may opt to dodge more often rather than take more of those brutal blows. If the Blocker had addtional DC's with his Martial Arts, the PD would have increased to compensate as well, making damage FAR less likely the more skilled the Blocker is at Blocking. Now, against a 30 STR Vampire... it starts going downhill with an average of 21 STUN and 6 Body on an average roll. Take off the 8 PD from Block and you still have 13 Stun which halved is 6 which means you hurt your arm quite a bit. Of course, heroic characters will likely have more Base PD especially if they are HtH combatants. Also, the more skilled Martial Artists also get the Higher DC's thus more Blocking PD.

Re: RKane_!'s heretical and Audacious Block variant With added difficulty, I agree. An inside Block would do the trick. Because they get a bonus on their next action and get to act first. A sacrifice move for a beneficial outcome.