Rkane_1

Re: Elemental Control Variant Actually, I would consider the Amnesia and Psychopathic tenadancies just a part of his personality....that and patrt of the personality of half the people I play RPG's with. *smile* In any event, Wolverin'e Elemental Disads for Regen/Adamantium Skeleton: Distinctive Features: Mutant (Easily Concealed; Extreme Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) - 5 Pts Social Limitation: Out and Proud Mutant (Frequently, Major) - 15 Pts Distinctive Features: Heals unnaturally in front of your Eyes (Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; -5 for Infrequently comes up) - 15 Pts Distinctive Features: Sets off Metal Detectors (Easily Concealed; Extreme Reaction; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses) - 5 pts And the most impressive set: Vulnerability: 2 x BODY,STUN< and Effects, Magnetic Attacks (Uncommon) - 30 Pts Thats 70 points off the bat. Easy. The distinctive Features he would encounter would clue other into thefact he had off powers and the Vulnerabilities are for having a Metal Skeleton. The mutant stuff is just gravy. QED

Re: Elemental Control Variant Well, remember the required number of Disads that tie to the Elemental Control are REDUCED if you put motre Limitations on the EC as a whole. By adding things like Incatations or Gestures easily make the amount of points needed lower. As for a mage...how about a slight 5 point disad for being a magickal beings, what about Weirdness Magnet? What about some Hunteds by people who aren't so hip on Mages like a secret government agency. Something in theme with the Elemnet the character has taken. For Mutants they can take a quick few points for 5 point Disad, Watched by Governemtn agency or Hunted by Genocide as that is "in theme" for those with mutant powers. The more Limitations you have on it, the fewer Disadvantages are required. Would you be so kind as to provide an example without using the current EC structure but JUST buying the powers out of this variant then the powers IN this variant to show how it could cost more, please? It will wind up being a tad more expensive than the current EC but I believe the Current EC structure is too cheap AND doesn't provide for powers smaller than the total power of the main cost. This does. I will respond to more of this post in a minute but thank you very much for your input on the thread.

Re: Elemental Control Variant Let us discuss the negative ramifications of the disads info. Why would you object to it?

Re: Elemental Control Variant What if you posted a thread and nobody came? *pout* I guess I will put away the salsa, chips and the Sobreros.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? Oh please fire away. That is exactly what this thread is for. To propose and discuss. If you have a "I think that idea wouldn't work well because of X" or "I prefer the old method because of X" thing to say, that is perfectly acceptable. What is irritating is people coming here to say "Don't change anything." and eating up thread. Please openly discuss the ideas here and I will be a most happy clam.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? OR... we could be just wanting to talk out loud about possible alterations. Chill, Maynard. Steve Long is not waiting with baited breath to seize upon the ideas in this thread. He has a wide base of fans who like the system as is. No need to stress yourself thinking Steve will suddenly change the system overnight. I WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ THE FIRST POST AND HAVE ENOUGH RESPECT FOR THE OTHERS IN THIS FORUM TO FOLLOW THE THREAD OF THE ORIGINAL POST AND NOT POST THE TYPE OF POSTS SPECIFICALLY THEY WERE ASKED NOT TO POST. *hint,hint* You have a great game system. Relax. It isn't going anywhere. If I want a different system enough, I will go make it. This is a forum thread to explore possible house rules for Hero. As it is, you are wasting thread time. PLEASE KEEP TO THE THREAD. DISCUSS POSSIBLE FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES TO HERO YOU MIGHT MAKE OR PLEASE DO NOT POST. FEEL FREE TO MAKE ANOTHER THREAD ABOUT HOW GREAT YOU THINK THE SYSTEM IS WITHOUT CHANGES BUT PLEASE KEEP TO THE THREAD IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST.

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform Ooooo....well done, Bloodstone. I like it and it makes sense. Good show.

The standard Elemental Control Power has issues in my estimation. I know many defend it but I find it troublesome and too many odd builds with it. This is an idea I have, so please hear me out. One of my problems stem from the fact smaller powers who may not match the exact points cost of the biggest power in the EC are not benefitted as much unless they are bought up to the level of the biggest power. Slowly developing powers are very hard for players who want to develop them slowly as you cannot really put a small amount of points in them unless they are outside the EC, where they gain no benefit for fitting a closely themed set of powers OR they wait til they get up to the appropriate points dedicated to them and suddenly become much more powerful. I would prefer the character can slowly build the power and learn to harness his powers gradually. As it stands, putting a power in an EC is often an "all or nothing" proposition. My second problem is the no non-Endurance using powers in the EC. It makes sense to me that an Ice Using Character should be able to place Armor in an EC. But with this restriction, he cannot. My third problem is, and I know there a lot out there who will say "Well, thats why its called a Power Framework and not a Power Limitation" but I believe the Framework provides a little too much "umph" point for point without asking much back from the player. I believe also that being elementally tied to something like a set of powers means that certain Disadvantages should be chosen such as a Cold based character having a vulnerability to Fire or such. Elemental Control Variant:The character who wants Elemental Control must place a number of points into it a Core Cost equal to the Active Cost of any power that is part of it and then apply a -1 Limitation to this. This gains a -1 Modifier to any powers under it. Any Limitations that affect the entire Elemental Control can also be added to the -1 Limitation on the Core Cost. This way, low cost powers may fit underneath it and powers the character is just starting to develop don’t have to be an “All or nothing†proposition but can be slowly grown. Any Limitations that affect the entire Elemental Control can also be added to the -1 Limitation on the Core Cost. Also, the character may place in the EC any Power which the GM feels is appropriate whterh they cost Endutrance or not. Finally, characters must take as part of their Disadvantages a number of Disadvantages equal to the Real Cost of the Core Cost of the Elemental Control that directly link to their Elemental "Focus". They do not take any less or more points from the Disadvantages, but are required to take certain ones that fit the mold. For an example: I have a Cold-Based Character that shoots Ice from his finger tips. I want to be able to make Ice Armor and Ice Bolts and Ice Spears. I need up to 60 Active Points for my biggest Power but MY GM, states it only makes sense that Ice should stop so much damage so he limits my Armor to 5 PD and 5 ED. We decided that the highest Active Point power is 60 Active Cost and I set up my Core cost. 60 Active with a -1 Modifier is 30 Active Points. This means that I would need to also have 30 points worth of Disadvantages worth of Disads that related to my Ice Powers such a a Vulnerability to Fire x2 STUN and x1 1/2 BODY for a total of 30 Points worth of Disadvantages. I still get the points for the Disads but I am just required to have some "in theme" disads that make laogical sense when it comes to the powers my character has. Cold Based Powers, all slots Elemental Control Mod (-1) Core Cost (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 points --------- SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 pts Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); ECMod (-1) - 30 pts Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 30 pts Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 7pts Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); EC Mod (-1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - 9 pts --------------------- Total Cost = 136 pts. Since the Core cost Real cost is 30pts, I bought Vulnerability to Fire x2 STUN and x1 1/2 BODY which is 30 points. Now lets take a look at taking a further disadvantage on the Whole EC of Limited Power:Not in Arid conditions of temoperatures over 100 degrees for a -1/4 limitation and also Requires Skill Roll:Ice Powers skill Cold Based Powers, all slots Elemental Control Mod (-1) Core Cost (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) ; Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not in Arid conditions or temperatures over 100 degrees (-1/4) - 22 points --------- SnowBalls-Energy Blast 12d6 (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 22 pts Ice Spear-Killing Attack - Ranged 4d6 (60 Active Points); ECMod (-1) - 22 pts Ice Wall-Entangle 6d6, 6 DEF (60 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 22 pts Ice Armor-Armor (5 PD/5 ED) (15 Active Points); EC Mod (-1) - 5 pts Ice Ramps-Flight 10" (20 Active Points); EC Mod (-1); Physical Manifestation (-1/4) - 7 pts --------------------- Total Cost = 100 pts. Now since the Real Cost of the Core Cost is 22points, I could find something a little less than another Vulnerability to Fire on the body side, but I keep the x2 Stun for 20 Points. I also take Distinctive features:Bluish Skin and cold to the touch for 5 points. My GM feels that this works as it fits with my EC and My powers are set. Now lets say that I have earned a smal amount of experience points. Lets say 3 Exp and I want to work on a Change Environement power for an ice slick. I buy it as thus under my EC. Ice Slick-Change Environment 1" radius, -2 Characteristic Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic (9 Active Points); Elemental Control Mod (-1), Requires A Skill Roll (-1/2), Limited Power Not in arid conditions or temperatures over 100 degrees (-1/4) - 3 pts. Its small...but I will work on it and it will grow with my character. Okay... let her rip. Get with the Flamage.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? Using leverage is great but if there is just no logical way an 80 lbs little Chinese Guy is going to Block a punsh by Ogre unless the guy is using Super-martial Arts or Chi Powers or some such. Dodge, I can see. Now lets take into effect that it doesn't even take a Martial Arts Genius to Buy Block and any schmoe who goes to the Martial Arts Academy when he's not working at Denny's has a chance of Blocking the Hulk? Hmmmm...logic is flawed. I think its quite logical that a martial would Dodge rather than Block because they may not have sufficient Strength to block the punch. Perhaps if there was someway like with a Disarm where the Blocker gets a Strength Bonus to halt the Attack. I think I could see that. Perhaps there are more refined Blocks as well which can accomplish these outlandsih blocks. I am all for Anceint Chinese wisdom and I like and I enjoy Wuxia as much as the next guy but these are the guys who thought the Gun could be resisted by controlled breathing and feel during the Boxer Rebellion. There is a limit and physics says it is so. If something is Wuxia or the like, it should be bought as a power, IMHO.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? I would definately agree with SteveZilla and Kieth. If anything, I would be a GM and assess the power an automatic +1 advantage of "Can raise above Normal Characteristic Maxima" and see how quickly they change their build. *smile* Course, you could also say that the character had to pay for the STR as Normal Characteristic Maxima cost and apply any Limitation to THIS cost.

Re: How would you create this power? Hmmm...though since the object actually has no EGO to attack and is not a being that can determine what it does. Its a machine that only does something when pushed into action or engaged in someway by an outside force. I would say Telekinesis is the way to go. If it affected computers or AI then I would go the Mind Control Route. Just an opinion.

Re: How to create power: flight via temporary energy platform I would also add that it would not trully be "Flight, Usable By Others" because the others would not have control over where the Flight took them. The Telekinesis with Physical Manifestation would get my vote. If you had a spell that gave all the members of the team the self-willed ability to move where they want, I would then make it "Flight, Usable By Others" but if it were a moving Platform, I would buy it as oryanfactor suggests.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system?

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? Thanks. *smile* I think this would actually be a simpler change than people suspect. One of my main interests is to help make it easier for new players to get into the game and this would go a long way. There is really no good reason to have a different method of doing damage. All having the multiple methods of calculating does is make the game more difficult for new-comers to understand. Do you have any specifics on this? I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. Would devices that then gave skill levels automatically give you the base skill? What is the reasoning behind eliminating the 2/3 pt skill base? I am not challenging this but I am curious to what you believe it will solve. I would also make all skills chracteristic based, myself, but that is just me. I have always personally thought the maneuver of Block is ridiculous in and of itself. If Ogre, who can uproot trees and toss cars is punching Seeker, how could Seeker, with his normal human Strength, impose a force that would change the course of -OR- halt altogether the force of his blow. Its not very logical (Yes, I know. Its a Super-hero game). I have often thought that a Block machanic that took into consideration Strength would be a better solution and to leave the Uber-Block (the Block Maneuver, as is) as something for Super-Powers where Shang-Chi COULD block the Hulkbecause of some Ancient Chinese secret Block that also left his whites whiter and removed stains. These mods to Missile Defelction, I like. Though I would also like to see the recommendations for the cost of them. What exactly would you suggest? Are you saying buying defense automatically gives you flash and mental or just a base defense power that has to be purchased for each effect? I am interested in your thoughts here. I agree though for my game, I add the Adder "Mobile" for +10 points on my Force Walls. How would you structure the cost of this consolidation of Force Wall, Entangle? I agree. It is very strong as a Simulationist game but I do wish it had a more Narrative aspect to the game such as Fate Points and what. Yes, I know there is Luck but I was hoping for some other way for Players to help themselves out of a tough bind rather than GM fiat. I have worked with many systems in the past who have one and prefer this. Thanks for your input, Ndreare!

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group... This one came from last night as a robot was wlaking out of a room filled with a noisy combat that ended with screams and his calm exit coated in blood. "I have a Code versus Killing. .... Not maiming."

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? I apologize. I thought you were implying by changing the system to a universal mechanic woulod make it an inferior game system. I am well aware of these other game systems but they lack a number of features that Hero provides. I also think they have some beneficial elements that Hero would do well to emulate. Hero is a WONDERFUL system. I despise D20, so my apologies if I seemed a little insulted and attacksish. My bad.

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? Oh please. Like I said. if you think the system is perfect, find another thread. This is an open discussion on fundamental changes. If you think its perfect then go blissfully into the night content with your perfect system. So, you have NO house rules and accept everything out of the book as cannon without modification? In that case, congrats. You don't need more, have fun and be well on your journey. Discuss change or if you fear it, run along. *smile*

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system? Well, now that I have labelled myself a heretic... Hmmmm...I would Double STR cost. Hand Attack would be five points per and top out at double the STR in DC the way Killing Attack does now. Figured Characteristics would double in cost but the figured characteristic would figured to be higher (Example: PD = STR/2.5 but costs 2 per) this would also make certain Defensive powers more expensive, of course. SPD = Dex/5 and cost 20 pts per This would mean less point tweaking on figured stats and more reliance on higher base characteristics. Why, I think its more "realistic but still offers the ability to have higher figured stats. Killing attacks would be a +1/2 Advantage to Normal Damage and be counted as Normal Damage and BODY but be counted against defenses the way it is now. Skills would work like OCV/DCV with DCV being the difficulty of the task at hand. Mental Illusions would work against INT rather than Ego. Mental Awareness would not be an automatic part of every Mental Power, just another sense to buy for a well-rounded character the way Sense Heat can be bought for a Fire-Based Character. EGO would be figured into STUN and STUN resistance instead of JUST the physical characteristics OR a new methgod would be prepared to spend the points like in White Wolf (Yes, I know....blasphemy mentioning their name here but I am a heretic) for extra Stun, Endurance or added damage to attacks. More importance would be given to it so its not just something mentalists buy but also helps represent a disciplined mind, and iron will, or a driven psyche. This would intern mean mentalist characters stop walking over everyone else unless they specifically spend points in Mental defense. The things I think are the MOST important things to keep: The point based system and the ability to fine tune a character. Though I may actually resort to a +.1 and +.25 system rather than just +1/2 or +1/4 for FINER fine tuning. I would refine Elemental Control as I think its overly complicated and is too great a cost break for not enough disadvantage (My suggestion is a -1 limitation for the EC powers provided you buy a power with a "Control cost" equal to the power with highest Active Points in the EC with that EC Mod on it PLUS any Limitations that effect all powers in the EC . Its very similar to Standard EC BUT it would allow you to buy powers BELOW the Active Cost and get a decent break on them, allow smaller powers to be purchased and built up, ...that and I would insist also on certain disads being bought to reflect how in tune the character is with that element, hence being a disadvantage (fire for cold/ice characters) equal to half the Active Cost of the of the Control Cost. So if you had 60 Active Points in say a FIRE EC, then you might suffer from a Vuln or Susceptibility or combination thereof worth 30 points.) Presence would stay the same but EGO would be the only defense for it. PRE would be able to attack only and COM would be double and you could attack with it as well for Seduction or Persuasion. Ego would be the Stat used to resist temptation and INT to resist trickery. Hmmmm....have I managed to leave anything untouched by the scalpel. *RKane_1 takes cover for the inevitable onslaught of HERO fanatics. He's one himself but its hard attacking himself*

Re: What fundamental thing would you change about the Hero system?

Yeah, I said it. There are some flaws. Overall, I love the system and think its the BEST one out there for fine tuning a character and for FAIRLY realistic combat IF you use the right rule mods already published in the book. I don't want to get into a "Its perfect the way it is" argument so if you want to start that, please make another thread. What I am talking about are their any rules you would like to see changed? For me, elimination of Killing Damage rolled the way it is. I think Killing Damage should be rolled the way Normal Damage is and then applied to defenses as Killing Damage. THis ends the Stun Lottery and makes one less thing I have to explain to a new player. Overall, I wish a LOT of the rolls for effect and the like would change to this system. Perhaps a "Count the BODY Dice" method for determining the power of Presence attacks, Mind Control, Telepathy and the like. One simple universal mechanic to help explain it better to new players. Makes it easier and less for new players to digest and easier to get into the game. Any of you out their think the system can be simplified or handled in a different way? Chime in or respond to this thought, please.

The character in question uses African Soul Magic but his Grandfather was a Jamaican Voudun whose spirit is tethered to a walking stick. Granpa has a gambling problem and is actually going to get the character in trouble a bit but he does have some helpful skills. Convincing him to USE them is a different matter. I just need to know how to build it. I also have a computer in a set of armor I am asking about as well. Can I take the Follower with the disad of being in my armor. Also, does this mean he can automatically control my armor? (I am hoping not)

Re: Can a Follower be bought with a Focus Limitation? The character in question uses African Soul Magic but his Grandfather was a Jamaican Voudun whose spirit is tethered to a walking stick. Granpa has a gambling problem and is actually going to get the character in trouble a bit but he does have some helpful skills. Convincing him to USE them is a different matter. I just need to know how to build it. I also have a computer in a set of armor I am asking about as well.

If someone has a Follower like a Computer or, in this case, a walking cane inhabited by the spirit of his old granpa, can the follower be bought with a Focus Limitation?

Re: What bizarre rules issues have you encountered? Should have asked the guy why didn't we think of that in World War II when London was being bombed? They could have avoided all the casualties just by telling them to jump when it hit.

Re: Humorous: Broken arithmetic in system. Sto... thanks for sharing your observations. Others....stop think he is attacking the system. He ain't. He's merely pointing out (with an apparent expertise in mathematics) that the book, as it states it, is incorrect though it is easily corrected to be what we all understand to be the way it should be done. Sto....you get a No-Prize. I'll send it right away by a pack of rabid math weasels that will respond to your whim and vorasciously devour all that oppose you. Make sure they get plenty of sleep and don't feed them after midnight.