jaws

Re: Social versus Physical/Mental Conflicts

To yours and OddHat's above proposals, I think these are sorts of the ways to go, because ideally you want this to mesh with physical conflict, and to go seemlessly between the two. Ideally, basically, I think you would want to allow going to physical as a way to increase your resistance, and that could be a simple modifier for the resistant party being willing to go to blows.

 

 

It's possible that the mechanism to exploit is simply EGO but rather than Mental Defense one applies Social Defense as with Utech's idea, with the other parts of that. Much as BOD has both Energy Defense and Physical Defense. That with something such as the +30 level or similar is off limits as long as the target is willing to come to blows (which a +30 would be, but that would be the litmus test), or such.

Fighting for something you believe in is what history is made out of. You cant always reason things out. Sometimes both parties are correct on are on different perspectives. Coming to blows is always an option to get your point across. This of course may o may not reduce your social standing, but if you are out classed who cares! Show them what youa re really good at.. clober!

In other words, social interaction will never completely force you to do something, but will force you to make a decision between complying and accepting your social defeat, being truly convinced of something, or risking social clout, contacts, influence, resources, rank or what ever and just going to blows.

Using the "social STUN" and "Social body" stuff from the previously proposed systems can mean...

If STUN <= 0 You cant find a way to rebuff your opponents argument but remain unconvinced, though any by standards will side with your opponent on his argument unless they have their own opinions and remain unconvinced. / Everything they are saying is true, but you have a hunch or just cant prove their argument wrong.

If BODY <= 0 You are defeated and convinced of the truth you opponent says, at least until you find more or new evidence supporting your point of view to rekindle your spirit. / You will go along with actions that don't violate your principals or are VIOLENTLY opposed to doing (would fight or risk your life to avoid).

As long as body hasn't reached 0 at any time you may go in to physical combat, duel like. Social combat can continue normally with bonuses gained from MORALE (gained form having the upper hand in combat). Or you can go in to mindless combat which is more passionate and angry canceling out all enemies attempts at further social maneuvering but also limiting you strategy to that of some one "enraged" if at >0 Stun or even "berserker" if at >= 0 Stun (as the limitation).

Dead guy looses... or even both if the social situation merits it.

I am going to jump in before reading any replies, so this may have already been covered.

 

There is a fundamental difference, in terms of a roleplaying game, between "social" situations and conflicts (mingling at the Royal Ball and trying to sense the court's consensus about the Dragon Problem; chaffering with a merchant; convincing a super villain to surrender) and physical/mental situations and conflicts (trying to decipher a scroll; trying to break down a door; trying to outrun a ravenous bugblatter beast; shadowing a suspect across town)

 

The difference is that the game itself IS, fundamentally and inescapably, a social situation (and sometimes social conflict.)

 

We have mechanics for thinks like Ego Attacks and busting down doors and taking out Klingons with the Vulcan nerve pinch because we either can’t or don’t want to actually do these things as part of the game. We accept rules and rolls as abstractions of situations that are either impossible or undesirable or both (literal dragons to slay are generally unavailable, and unacceptably dangerous even if you could acquire one.)

You sum up my point nicely. Because these skills do more bad than good (spoil the plot, make the problems too easy, give out information which the GM hides on purpose) I really do not like them. If you use "tactics" in my game, I (as a GM) will never explain to you what you should be doing. Assume Space Warfare scenario: You can have exact numbers about your ships, you can ask me "if we pit this ship vs that ship, will ours win?" and get a decent answer (assuming I know it) or you can get circumstance boni on ocv/dcv and similar things. Also, it will help for not being surprised.

We simulate combat with dice because we really cannot do well otherwise. But that is not true for mind games, which work nicely in our heads. Rolling dice is a crutch when nothing else works well, it's not how things "should" be!

I believe the point of a social mechanism is that

• We are not super strong, super fast and don't have superpowers so we use rules to emulate that and role dice. If we use bad tactics it doesn't mater if the rules favor us we may likely loose.

• We are not all super intelligent(or at least as intelligent as our character) we are not all slick with the chicks or even very conversational (or at least not as much as our characters. Hey maybe we are even better). But we can use rules to emulate that. Even if our character is "The Silver Tongue" if you use bad role playing (read as tactics for combat) we still stand a good chance of loosing even with our silver tongue.

"HEY! just like combat!"

I have two players who are socially inept, a middle ground one and at least 2 silver tongues. Sometimes my silver tongues play "barbarous" barbarians and my barbarian plays the suave rogue.... with out social rules... oh my... the brick head barbarian is always telling the genius leader what to do, when and how??? hmmmmm.... with social rules "Hey my character is sooo cool he can actually lead this party of raving mad men...."

My other options... I can force the Smart guy playing the dumb char to stay in character... it will work for a while... until he gets exasperated from the incompetence of the other player and HAS to step in. Or he can lead the other player by the nose and just play 2 characters while the other guy just rolls the dice.

The result... frustrated players that CANT play the character they WANT to play because it just isn't part of the PLAYERS character. Sounds like not being able to play superman because you cant lift a car and fly.

THAT is why I think social rules should exist. But only as complex as the genre requires.

Re: Rolling mechanic question

About three years ago, my players started rolling all their 3d6 rolls with specifically-colored dice. I didn't question it till I saw things changing hands: other dice, miniatures, occasional cash---

 

seems they've concocted some sort of gambling game based on the sequencing of the values of each die as it's rolled...

Ok who need simplification of dice rolling, lets complicate it even further

It sound fun, You got the rules?

Re: [Killershrike.com] Vancian Spell List Revamp

All working fine so far

Re: [Killershrike.com] Vancian Spell List Revamp

You must spread rep... ugh!! it makes me sick! Great Work KS!!

Re: Pathfinder Hero

Oh! There it is. Great! Thanks I can tell you are going all out. I will help with all I can as soon as I get my copy.

I have a very basic web presence for it, but its not linked to by anything as of yet...

 

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Pathfinder/PaizoPathfinder.aspx

Re: Pathfinder Hero

KS!! As usual Great Work. I have been keenly interested in path finder, but my time has become so short I am having trouble converting enough material for my Arcana Evolved Project.

However with all your hard work pathfinder is back on my plans. I'll pitch in as soon as I have the material.

Are you setting up a section for it on your web page?

Re: How much XP per 'level'

If its any help it is only a few months since I FINALLY convinced my group to switch. It started out VERY d&dish and it was the only way I could get them to even try it. But the flexibilty got to them... now D&D is out the window. Only one is still whining but 7 converts i take is a clear win!

So go ahead and use levels. I used KS's conversions and it worked just fine.

Let me know how it went.

Re: 0" Flight?

It is that move rate is effectively halved, so you could only, effectively, (as Hugh and others poitned out) decelerate at 1/2" per phase, if you were already moving down, but if not (or once you have cancelled downward velocity) you could hover.

 

That's the problem with segmented/phase moves. Arguably you are falling 30" on your phase, so you can reduce that by 10" per phase and stop in 3 phases, but that fails to take into considerationt hefact that you are falling (and accelerating) every segment.

1: As per hero rounding 1/2" round up to 1" so 1" is enough to decelerate 1" of of downward movement. At least I would go that route. At least for a power limited that much already anyway.

2:If you are decelerating with your flight speed then you are no longer accelerating so you do not have to consider the fact you are "falling (and accelerating)" any more. That's why it takes double the power to go vs. gravity. 1" cancels gravity acceleration and 1" effectively pushes you upward.

2 cents.

JAWS

Re: Mega Fantasy City Map - My latest project

Let's hear more about Tallon' date=' not all this browser crap![/quote']

 

LOL... I'll second that. Talon is awesome.

Re: A Game on the Run?

In my short-lived martial arts/film noir game' date=' the PCs ended up running from the law because the villain killed their client and framed them for the murder. The villain had kidnapped the PCs' client who had them recover some stolen property. He tried to free her in return for getting back his "property," but the PCs wouldn't talk to him, so he killed her instead. That might have been a mistake on my part. I could have instead let them figure out where she was being held and tried to free her.[/quote']

 

I'd call that uncompromising in a good way. Let the players know that there will be consequences for not playing ball when the life of an innocent person is on the line.

 

I concur . I have had to remind my players once or twice of this... Very effective at getting reactions and gawking in disbelief form the players. Especially when one of them died in a stand off while being held hostage.

 

The other players refused to "play ball" so the player got toasted.

 

All in all an enlightening experience worth killing a PC.

Re: Dive for Cover

Kill the only after dive for cover and you have a build for creatures that never fall down' date=' or whose body construction there is not actual prone (Say a man sized amoeba)[/quote']

 

My construct is questionable, this sounds outright abusive . But It is a clear path this would lead to... how powerful an eraser can be

Re: Dive for Cover

When you DFC, you are Prone. You cannot use Breakfall (and by extension Position Shift) to nullify the Prone penalty.

 

From the 5ER FAQ:

 

Question: Does the Position Shift Adder for Teleportation have any effect on Dive For Cover — for example, does it

allow a character to Dive For Cover without suffering “prone” penalties.

 

Answer: No.

This I agree with. however in emulating an interesting ability from other fantasy systems. Would an ability such as Teleport 1" Position Shift Trigger:hit the ground after DFC(no time) only to stand up from prone. work? you think? Would it be way to overpowered for a fantasy campaign?

I accept that but the quote was out of context - for the example I gave, position shift, means that you can effectively get to your feet for free, so you won't need to worry about penalties to your DEX roll for your NEXt aborted DFC roll if you are slower.

 

If you are DFCing with flight or, for that matter TP, I'm not sure how you wind up prone anyway. Indeed you could DFC straight up with flight (albeit at only 1/4 of your total move in effect) and get out of melee range that way.

I don't think its the actual fact that you hit the ground that gives you the "prone" status. It is the fact that you are in a desperate last ditch attempt to get away from an attack that leaves you in an disadvantageous position and unprepared for other attacks

Re: Stumped for Nightmare adventure Ideas

Guys

thank you the Ideas were great. The players were all freaked out. I ran them all through their worst fears, they were mutilated just enough to make them feel powerless, they were totally confused and still are.

One of them actually thinks he is awake because he caught on to it being a dream and was able to wake up in to another dream where thins are probably just as screwed up. Sort of like matrix when neo awakens and sees he is a copper top.

Though tempted I didn't actually have them running naked through town, however it felt that way since every time the would reach for something in need it would be missing some how.

RP got so intense that we were unable to finish the adventure and will have tot take it up next week. I hope I can pick up on the mood again though.

Thanks for all your awesome Ideas Herodome!

Re: Stumped for Nightmare adventure Ideas

Nice Ideas Guys.. retiring for the night will be back in the morning for a last check to terrorize my group

Take care! Thanks.

Ran out of Rep Blue, Ill get you tomorrow

gnight!

Re: Stumped for Nightmare adventure Ideas

Nice... Nothing actually fits as is... but there is plenty of thread i can weave from it.. thank you! I'll see what else comes in and put together something totaly creepy . Then I'll let you all know how it went with the players tomorrow night

I love that various versions of the same guy... how bout of the PC's too...

I hadn't thought of really defiling the town and turning it against them, I was going more for the personal aproach, but I think that will make it "real" in a very terrifing way...

Thanks again.

Hi Herodome! I have a general Idea for a an adventure I have been mulling over. However I am feeling stumped for Ideas.

The general premise is the characters are returning home from one of their adventures. However on one of their past adventures the were in contact with an artifact containing the nightmares of many (Malus Morphaera, from plague of dreams in Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved). They do not have the sphere, but they have been tainted by it and a great spirit of Dream/Nightmare is looking to obtain it. Believing the characters have it... it is waiting for them before they arrive home to one of the characters lands.

The whole Idea is for horror that may freak the characters (and hopefully the players) but not kill anyone. So the spirit is way above their power level, however i is not interested in killing them. All it wants is the sphere and is willing to terrify them in to submission for it, so what if they end up a bit crazy afterward.

I plan on using the characters worst fears in nightmare fashion, but I want it to be a layered dream where they are never sure if they are awake or dreaming, where even while awake strange things happen. Where they wake up only to find they are still dreaming... or are they?

Please herodome I know you can help. Its a bit short notice, but i thought i could handle it.

I have a few cool scenes I know will freak out their characters, but its confusing reality and nightmare that is most important to me so players have to stay on their toes.

Power level is unimportant however they are almost super heroic fantasy hero characters for reference. The adventure takes place in Monte Cook's arcana evolved campaign world.

Thanks in advance.

JAWS

Re: Mega Fantasy City Map - My latest project

It seems like you'd need to call your game world "Xerquodius Squalazoxes" to be free from ambiguity.

Keith "Xerquodius Squalazoxes" Curtis

Actually that name may already be taken....

In any case... Awesome Map.

Re: Campaign Planning Sheet

You can also find one on Killershrike's Fantasy Hero page.

I think it is called Campaign Paradigms.

Re: Monkey Grip

I actually have a character, Dwarf that does that with his dwarven war axe and used the precise mechanics suggested by Thia and KS. Ben playing around with it for a few sessions and it works out just fine and is not unbalancing. So far at least.

Especially since I cost STR at 2 points per point.

However wielding a pole arm one handed just seems weird. It is long and unwieldy with a heavy end. I guess you would have to go with the "Invisible Extra limb" however... unless you are looking for a kung fu style martial arts weapons wielder ... with out shields usually ... it sounds more like a player just trying to stretch the rules a little more.

This is a thread dedicated to converting classes from Monte cooks Arcana Evolved. My main focus is in keeping with the spirit, and initially as close to the regular mechanics as possible but improving with the flexibility of HS allows.

I have finished the Oathsworn, including some info from transcendence as well as a mostly complete Akashic It still needs a few powers and detail. I have also added the Totem-speaker class form trascendance.

Most combat rituals are done as well.

For RACE conversions go to this link: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1352151#post1352151

Re: Arcana Evolved RACE Conversion

Thanks for the kudos .

I am starting the thread for the Class Conversions Here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1432950#post1432950

I have finished the Oathsworn, including some info from transcendence as well as a mostly complete Akashic It still needs a few powers and detail. I have also added the Totem-speaker class form trascendance.

Most combat rituals are done as well.

Re: Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved

Pretty much what I am doing. Half-based on Killershike's Gestalt system, it is a variable power pool with limitations as you suggested.

Spells are bought as 1 point familiarities for simple 2 point familiarities for Complex and 3 point familiarities for exotic.

It is quit simple to differentiate the different types of casters since depending on the type of caster is the kind of limitations their power pool takes.

However I don't modify the pools adv/lim after the fact. Certain feats in AE grant access to complex spells or modify spells with templates etc. These are all Talents built as Naked advantages. So basically Complex spell access with a single descriptor is 5cp while exotic is 10cp.

And yes spell treasury is cool but I'm not even 10% in to the conversion of spells in the main book yet. I am however well advanced on Classes.

Re: Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved

Added the rest of the racial templates to http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1432212&postcount=2

I will be creating a thread with the class conversions as I go.

Re: Arcana Evolved RACE Conversion

Not a very popular Idea I guess. However here are the rest of the racial templates I have created. Hopefully someone can improve.

I used templates to change the Racial NCM and I use STR cost of 2 for my FH campaigns so that is adjusted in the templates as well.

I hav also Added Chorim. A militaristic Race of Mean Giants

Re: Cleric 3.5 Spell Conversion

You Rock!!