Khas

Mostly writ-ups but also ideas are welcomed. I was looking for premade vehicles as a starting point. 

Hi all, i think this could be the right place where to ask. I'd like to start a new campaign set in the Extinction event (new released setting for 6th) world, and i was searching for examples of near future vehicles, drones and technology. I know i can build them all but i'd like to see examples. Seems that I'm not able to find nothing in vehicles books, champions or start hero source books, do you have suggestions on where to look? 

Hi Steven i'm sorry to reposting this but i couldn't be able to find your previous answer dated i think 2009. 

In APG2 i at page 37 it states that:

The Adding Damage rules apply to Telekinesis
in the standard way. Thus, Telekinesis (STR 40), which costs 60 Active Points, has 12 DCs for purposes of adding damage to it. However, the GM can rule that the DCs of Telekinesis are based on the STR used rather than the Active Points, if he feels that’s more consistent and/or won’t case game problems.

So my question is if this is the standard rule and if an hit of a 60ap telekinesis alone worths 12dc of damage. 

Thanks and sorry again for the repost

May be they are the keepers or guardians of something and pass the witness to their descendants 

26 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

My problem with this is that you pay points to make your power worse...

That's why makes sense to put on it a few limitations to balance the cost like i did with jointly linked and double endurace cost, so that the discount balances the increased cost 

2 hours ago, clnicholsusa said:

Personally, I'd go with the END Reserve/Slow Recovery option. It's true that this doesn't enforce "five minutes active, one hour cool down" with rigid precision. However, setting the power and END Reserve up to approximate that idea and using RP to model what remains would work for me. In fact, I'm going to incorporate the idea in "Frogboy" as soon as possible:

Frogboy has a five SPD, so will have twenty-five phases in a five minute period, however, I'll just RP him as being able to use his Mechano-Froglegs for five minutes at a time, with an hour between uses to cool down the pneumatic chamber and refill the air tank.

Cost 6 points
Mechano-Froglegs:  Leaping +21m (25m forward, 12 1/2m upward) (11 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), no Noncombat movement (-1/4)
costs 1 END
Cost 11 points
Endurance Reserve  (25 END, 25 REC) Reserve:  (25 Active Points); REC:  (18 Active Points); Slow Recovery 1 Hour (-4)

Yes it is a nice build but different from a free use/cooldown and doesn't take in account the possibility of multiple attack actions . Anyway it could be perfect for a different power or needing 

1 hour ago, Lucius said:

 

The palindromedary says all these tools in the kit and still somehow you need to craft a new one to get the job done.

😂😂 You are right i'm a bit finicky and i apologize for that, but all the ideas you have provided helped me in choosing a good limitation value and also to better understand the guidelines underlying the rules. I think that a custom - 1/2 or a tweak of existing limitation would do the job without the iper complicated build i thought. 

2 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

Actually, according to the Character Creation book p. 374, the character may take other actions during that time. So I think you hit on the actual solution here.

 

Khas' Gun:  (Total: 80 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, -3), OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 16)

 

Use for five minutes, pause an hour, use for five minutes, pause an hour, etc.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary pauses for a tagline op.

 

 

Extra time is quite perfect if you ignore that if used for an attack you can't attack until it is ready for use: "Attacks are an exception: if a character takes this Limitation for a power that requires an Attack Roll, he cannot make another attack until the power’s been used (unless the GM gives permission otherwise)." 

I too think that a limitation that takes in account the cooldown time and a time limit together should be required and very useful in this kind of situations as ghost-angel said

1 hour ago, Lucius said:

 

I believe the Rules as Written consider an instant power with Time Limit to qualify for Continuing Charges.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reminds me I could be mistaken

I see your point, the two conditions are similar. Thanks for help and ideas! 

1 hour ago, Doc Democracy said:

I have similar issues with the use of Time Limit.  As with everything in HERO though, there is nothing absolutely forbidden (did you see what I did there?!).  When you are looking at something unusual you cast around to find similar kinds of things and come up with a rough approximation of how much things are worth.

 

when doing things like this a good sense check is to compare the cost of your power with the base power.  Think how you will use the power in game.  If your modified power is much cheaper than the base and not significantly affected in play, you have gotten things wrong.

 

With Lucius’ build, the base is an 8D6 blast, which uses 4 END and costs 40 points.

 

Lucius’ build provides an 8D6 blast which can be fired as often within a five minute time frame as desired but then cannot be used for an hour.  It costs 25 points and I am unsure whether it costs END (charges normally do not).

 

Is the limitation worth almost 50% discount?  That is a decision for your GM.  I would be inclined to say that it is too cheap if it is gaining 0 END.  If it costs END then I reckon the costing is fine.

 

Dont be Leary of using the custom limitation facility, it is often necessary to get just the right nuance, just be careful in costing it.

 

Doc

 

I'm glad you agree about time limit and i have no particular issues with custom limitation but if i can i try to use existing elements, anyway this tread helped me a lot with different approaches and idea. Thanks all

1 hour ago, Lucius said:

 

Yes, you're missing something.

 

 

you're missing the implications of the Time Limit Advantage. The ONLY reason it's there is to permit the Continuing Charges to work.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a palindromedary with no time limit

Ok i think that's because you consider an instant power with time limit on par with a constant power so that it qualifies for continuing charges right? 

17 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

You don't need an END Reserve. You need a power that works for 5 minutes then shuts down for an hour.

 

Khas' Gun:  (Total: 80 Active Cost, 25 Real Cost) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (80 Active Points); 16 clips of 1 Continuing Charge lasting 5 Minutes (Increased Reloading Time: 1 Hour; -1 1/4), OAF (-1) (Real Cost: 25)

 

Works for five minutes then shuts down for an hour.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I don' t need a palindromedary, I just need a tagline that references one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excuse me if i'm boring, i relly like your solution but i had discarded it myself beacause continuing charges can be applied only to constant or persistent powers, are you just ignoring this or i'm missing something? Thanks for the suggestions

4 hours ago, theinfn8 said:

Well, there is a weird RAW side effect of using Time Limit that I would ignore, using the power each time is technically a Zero Phase action, though using it would still count as an attack and thus end your turn. But this would technically make it an advantage, since you would have your full phase available for non-attack actions, then toss an attack out at the end. OP seemed to want something straight from the books, or I would have customized it and split the difference on the two as you suggested. (-1/2) maybe (-3/4). Suppose it depends what kind of game your running and whether an hour to wait is really much of a limitation. If I'm a dungeon crawling wizard, then an hour could be a lifetime. If I'm a space smuggler who only really needs to get out of bad situations every now and then, an hour might not be such a bad thing.

Yes as i can see from the different construction of a custom limitation would set around - 1/2 or - 3/4 and that is very useful for focusing its value since different approaches lead to a similar result

8 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

This is one of those rare times when I don't like Time Limit as an advantage because you are actually paying more points for the ability to use something less. I'd probably do the custom limitation here or even just a side effect? It ends up being an over all -1/2 to the original AP, which seems fair to me. You could even argue the side effect should be -3/4 (RP of 22) since the "predefined damage" is actually just a standard result of the d6 rolls.

 

8d6 Blast, 40 AP, [Extreme Side Effect: 13d6 Drain of Blast (40 points of drain) occurs 5 minutes after first use since last side effect, Recover 5 AP per 7.5 minutes (+1.5), Power does not recover until all points are returned (+0), 325 AP, Predefined Damage, Set Effect] (-1/2) 27 RP

 

- E

The drain side effect is a very good idea, i like it and did't think such a solution! 

8 hours ago, theinfn8 said:

 

Right. That's why the Time Limit. The one use lasts 5 minutes. It technically doesn't "end" before the 5 minutes is up.

Ah ok so the time limit would extend the "one shot" feature of the delayed use. Thanks that is a really good suggestion

3 hours ago, Lucius said:

 

I did not intend that, and I did not do that.

 

Emphasis added:

 

 

 

You cannot "switch out one clip for another (1 phase.)" It takes an hour to switch clips, the way I built it. My mistake was in overlooking that a character switching clips can do nothing else during that time. If one is willing to handwave that, my build is a solution: Othrwise my build is a failure.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reminds me that, speaking of charges, I need to go get a new battery.

 

 

The continuing charge would have been my first choice if it would be usable with instant powers

42 minutes ago, theinfn8 said:

I like Lucius’ build, it’s a nice clean implementation. I’ve had several different thoughts on the question at hand, but the truth is, I don’t really know *exactly* what is being built. Going bare bones, since you say you don’t need the Endurance Reserve, and the cooldown seems to be the most important thing, I submit the following:

 

Kha(o)s Cannon: (Active Cost: 80, Real Cost: 32) Blast 8d6, Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1); Limited Power: Delayed Use (1 hour; -1.5)

 

Using Limited Power for cooldown is in APG1. This will allow the use of the power for 5 minutes from first use, then lock it out after the power is done being used for 1 hour.

The problem with delayed use is that it allows just one use of the power before the cooldown if i understood correctly 

9 minutes ago, ScottishFox said:

 

Expanding on this, unless I missed something earlier, wouldn't the OP also be able to just use:

Limited Power:  Can be used for up to 5 minutes and then requires a 1 hour recharging period (-1 ish).

Yes i was just trying to buil something whitout a custom limited power but that may be the best solution anyway 

2 hours ago, ghost-angel said:

If you want an Endurance Reserve that's around for a finite amount of time (as opposed to just how long it takes to use the END in it);

 

Add Continuing Charges to the Endurance Reserve; Delayed Use just means it will take an hour to turn on, not an hour of use.

 

You don't need to Link the blast to the Endurance Reserve; when you buy a power you define which Endurance it uses (Personal or Reserve) and to use both requires an Advantage. If you want the weapon to have a cool down period, build that into the weapon side "Can only be used once every X Minutes"

My first intent is not an endurance reserve with cooldown but that is a work around to disable the blast linked to it. The link is only beacause the two power cannot be used alone but need the other one, so when the endurance reserve is disabled, the blast is disabled too. I know that delayed use is for the time the power is not avaible, that's the intent 

3 hours ago, Oruncrest said:

That's what Time Limit is for. It makes an instant power function similarly to a constant power for the duration. In this case, you'll be able to used your gun for 5 minutes after the first use, then it shuts down and the way Lucius set up charges(*) means you won't be able to use that clip for an hour.

 

(*Of course, with 16 clips, you can just switch out 1 clip for another (1 phase) and be good to go for another 5 minutes. by the time you've used the 16th clip, the first 4 will be ready to go again. Did you intend for that Lucius?)

This is interesting but is an advantage and just makes an instant power ready without preparation for that time and is not a period during which the power is disabled

3 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

Well, if you set the END Reserve up such that it has enough END to power the weapon for a chunk of uses and limit the Recovery such that the battery "only recovers in Cool-down mode, 1 hour".  What that means is that you get to use the END for as long as you want and then put the weapon into cooldown, at which point it begins Recovering and will be unusable for 1 hour.  You can look at Lucius' build for continuing charges to get an idea of what the limitations should be.

 

Doc

That was my first idea and works but wasn't exactly what i had in mind, but is an option 

Thanks but the problem with continuing charges is that "Characters can only use this option with Constant or Persistent Powers." as stated in 6E1 page 369, so i was looking for a work around the problem

My idea is to have a power usable freely for a while and after that disabled until it "recovers". 

Delayed use would be perfect but it only works for one use of the power befor having a cooldown. So i'm looking for a way to build it properly and a continuing charge applied to an endurance reserve that fuels the power might do the job. 

Hi all, as suggested i paste here my two questions: 

-the first one is if a continuing charge can be applied to endurance reserve and if the reserve when activated works normally for the time the charge allows; 

-the second one is if is correct to build a power linked to an endurance reserve with continuing charges to render a weapon or power with cooldown

I tried to build such a power this way:

Blast 8d6 40bp; double endurance (-1/2), jointly linked - 1/4. Total cost 23pt

Endurance reserve 80 end, 3 rec (23bp); restricted use - 1/4, 6 continuing charges 5min - 0, delayed use 1 hour (-1,5), jointly linked - 1/2. Total cost 7pt

I didn't find any examples of such a power, if you have suggestions should be very helpful 😊

My only concern in using delayed use is that it seems to work just for a single use with a consequent cooldown, so i tried this building for a limited time use with a following cooldown. 

Thanks for the suggestiins

Hi Steven i have two questions: 

-the first one is if a continuing charge can be applied to endurance reserve and if the reserve when activated works normally for the time the charge allows; 

-the second one is if is correct to build a power linked to an endurance reserve with continuing charges to render a weapon or power with cooldown

I tried to build such a power this way:

Blast 8d6 40bp; double endurance (-1/2), jointly linked - 1/4. Total cost 23pt

Endurance reserve 80 end, 3 rec (23bp); restricted use - 1/4, 6 continuing charges 5min - 0, delayed use 1 hour (-1,5), jointly linked - 1/2. Total cost 7pt

I didn't find any examples of such a power, if you have suggestions should be very helpful 😊