rjcurrie

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I've always used PRE rolls for fear in horror games. You come across a bunch of zombies nibbling on your Uncle Pete? Make a PRE Roll -4. You're in the deep wilderness and spot something out of the corner of your eye ... quick, give me a PRE roll -1.

 

I've also played with Fear Rolls [(PRE+EGO/2)/5+9] or Fear Points [PRE+EGO] that deplete like damage.

Good point on the PRE Rolls.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

duh. Yes. Other way.

 

I need more coffee.

 

 

And we do light penalties sometimes because we like cinematic success. We don't always sweat the details. Especially for easy tasks. But you can never Look Cool when you don't have the skill, which we like to do.

And sometimes we go "Roll and pray" as a way of saying "you can try anything, good luck." Doubly so for difficult tasks.

Character A has Breakfall at 12-.

Character B has a Familiarity with Breakfall, giving him an 8-.

Character C does not have Breakfall at all but has a DEX Rol of 11-.

I do not see how you can allow Character C to make a DEX Roll of greater than 7- to replace Breakfall; otherwise, you are completely undermining buying Familiariaties.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

RE: replacing Characteristic Rolls with Skill Rolls - I' date=' and groups I play with, usually impose an automatic -1 to -3 penalty.[/quote']

 

Do you, perhaps, mean the other way around (that is, replacing Skill Rolls with Char Rolls)?

 

If so, I think you need to be harsher than that. If a skill covers an action, I don't think you can allow a Chraracteristic Roll to do it at more than a 7- because someone with a Familiarity can do it on 8-.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I haven't really seen them used that much aside from the official functions (Ego as breakout rolls' date=' Com as complimentary, etc). I've improvised sometimes with them but it all feels vague and handwave driven and most people I've talked to about are nervous about making them "free skills" and not having many ideas (like what would a Body roll entail, for example).[/quote']

 

 

Well, you have to be careful to not let them trample skills -- or allowing a character to use a skill roll in place of a ckill he doesn't have.

• Trying to hang on to a ledge by your fingertips? Make a STR Roll.
  
• Trying to walk across an icy surface? Make a DEX Roll.
  
• Are you still conscious after a night of heavy drinking? Make a CON Roll.
  
• Trying to remember that lullaby your father sang to you as a child because it is the key to accessing a treasure he hid years ago. Make an INT Roll.
  
• Trying to hold yourself back from mouthing off when you shouldn't. Make an EGO Roll.
  

BODY Rolls have no use that I can see -- and they aren't even mentioned in 5ER . PRE Rolls, as discussed in 5ER, have little use and I can't remember having to roll on.

 

I don't mean devote a chapter or anything to characteristic rolls but a little fleshing out would be cool, perhaps some more mechanics that used them (like alternate Bleeding rules and LTE/Exhaustion effects and difficulties for for resisting infection, disease, etc for Con).

 

I guess a way to put it is that most of the char rolls seem to be in a somewhat similar position to the characteristic that shall not named. They're there, you can use them but its easy to forget and, aside from limited guides, you're kind of on your own.

 

Perhaps. I think a lot of it is that some Hero GMs just don't seem to be comfortable with a 55 point procedure tell them what to do. Okay, that's a bit of an exasggeration, but there does seem to be some uncomfortableness with improvisatioon.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I know I keep beating this drum (belaboring the point on the internet? I know' date=' I'm the only one. ) but Char rolls need a little more detail on what they do and can do aside from provide skill bases. I mean they're important enough you can actually by skill levels to increase them albeit cheaply (or could) but I've seen them so under utilized in the past.[/quote']

 

Interesting. I use them all the time particularly in Heroic games.

 

Essentially if there is not a specific rule or Skill to govern a desired action, I'll usually use an appropriate Characteristic Roll.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

It seems to me that if EGO is decoupled from ECV, my EGO v. EGO breakout roll idea actually makes a LOT more sense than keeping the straight ego roll.

 

Has Steve said anything about the mental powers rules yet?

To answer your second part first, no, Steve has not said anything yet about Mental Powers. While I like your EGO vs. EGO idea, I am failing to see why you think the decoupling would make it make more sense?

Re: Starting Point Totals

In terms of 4e to 5e there was very little cost inflaction (if any for most characters) in terms of actual builds, but the 'standard' superhero went from 250 to 350 points. What that jump did IMO was make room to make starting characters more interesting. We could have done it anyway - of course we could - but having it written in the book has a lot of power, and maybe we should be wary of that.

 

That was more to reflect a more mature fanbase (or at elast one that had been playing longer ) who were used to more expensive characters. I STILL build heroes, tot up the points and find that I've built to a 250 point base

To be honest, I thought the increase in points was because while a lot of individual items did not change in cost. There were more Skills, Perks and Talents that you could spend those points on which frankly is where a lot of my points always went when I updated characters from 3e to 4e.

Now as time goes by I'm less and less in need of points. I don't think they necessarily balance characters in themselves, and they can, at worst, be a horrible constraint on creativity. I've built characters to concept that cost 400 or 500 points but wouldn't last a turn in a 350 points 'standard build' combat. Moreover I'm confident that I could build a 250 point character (as could anyone) that could take down most 350 point characters.

 

OTOH they are an excellent way - perhaps the only way to start with - of educating new players as to the concept of character building, and the issues you shoudl take into account. Whilst I agree that they are necessary for the game, I agree with CTaylor that more experienced players probably can ignore them completely with relative impunity. Cost doesn't matter anywhere near as much as balance does. Point totals are important but must be kept in perspective - they are just one more tool you can use, or not, as you wish.

 

Anyway, we're all friends here...

 

...which means I get to say and do things to you lot I'd never get away with saying or doing to strangers

And balance, in my mind, has a lot to do with player skill as well. You can hand exactly the same character sheet to two different players and get two different levels of effectivenes.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

It's been mentioned in this thread that perhaps the confirmed changes to 6th Edition could have been presented in a more marketting-oriented approach. Since my job as a technical witer occasionally requires me to write marketting material, I thought I would take a shot at writing something similar to a press release in style. So, without further ado, here it is:

Hero System Sixth Edition Features Revealed

During a pair of recent online chats with fans , Hero Games Line Developer Steve Long revealed various aspects of the company’s upcoming Sixth Edition of their classic Hero System role-playing game.

New features revealed included:

• “Toolkitting” notes throughout the rule books will describe optional rules that can be use to customize the Hero System to fit the needs of players and GMs.
  
• An updated selection of Powers, including some that are brand new, lets players build even more diverse characters.
  
• Adjustment Powers have been reworked to improve their flexibility and playability.
  
• The STUN Multiplier for Killing Attacks has been modified to be a simple ½d6 to better position them as Attacks which deliver increased BODY but reduced STUN. In a related change, targets of a Killing Attack can apply their full PD or ED, as appropriate, against the STUN of that attack regardless of whether or not they have any resistant defenses.
  
• All movement and distance measurements are now in meters to improve mapless play while still allowing the use of maps and miniatures, if desired.
  
• A new Talent Striking Appearance will replace the Comeliness Characteristic. This new Talent, which can purchased multiple times to represent varying degrees of physical appearance, is designed to increase the game effects of such appearances.
  
• Four new Characteristics make it easier to create characters with differing offensive and defensive capabilities in both physical and mental combat and to create powers that can directly affect a character’s Combat Values.
  
• Mandatory links between Characteristics have been eliminated. All Characteristics are now purchased independently and several Characteristics have been rebalanced and re-priced to reflect this change.
  
• Leaping is now purchased independently from Strength.
  
• Some Skills have been modified.
  
• Improved Advantage handling includes a new more granular approach that improves the flexibility of many Advantages.
  
• The Damage Shield Advantage has been modified.
  
• A new Limitation named Unified Power replaces Elemental Controls. Unlike Elemental Controls, there will be no restrictions on what it can be applied to.
  
• New names for several game elements make their roles clearer. The Seduction Skill has been renamed Charm; Package Deals have been renamed Templates; and Disadvantages have been Complications. In a similar vein, Psychological, Physical, and Social Limitations have been renamed Psychological, Physical, and Social Complications.
  
• Increased reach for larger-than-normal beings and weapons has been simplified.
  
• The rules for adding damage from Strength and other sources have modified to make them easier to use during play.
  
• Suggested starting points for all genres and sub-genres have been increased to let players take full advantage of all Hero System 6th Edition features.
  
• Each of the two full color hardcover Hero System 6th Edition core rule books will feature a full index that covers the contents of both books.
  

In addition, Mr. Long also revealed that various popular elements of the 28 year old game system would be remaining:

• The basic 3d6-roll-for-success mechanic remains, and it will continue to be "roll-low."
  
• The Speed Chart which regulates combat will remain unchanged and movement will continue to measured per phase.
  
• Perception will continue to be INT-based.
  
• Skill rolls will continue be based on (Characateristic/5), but an optional “Toolkitting” note will describe alternate methods of calculating Skill rolls.
  
• Energy Blast and Killing Attack will still be separate forms of damage.
  
• Strength will continues to add to Hand-To-Hand Killing Attack damage.
  
• Mulipowers and Variable Power Pools remain as Power Frameworks.
  

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Chuck' date=' I would request that you apologize to Rod for that. That's not too nice.[/quote']

 

No apology is necessary. He's entitled to his opinion.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

uh, yeah.... Given Simon's warning and the general redundancy of the discussion I think I'm gonna unsubscribe from this. I've stated my piece based on what I know for now.

 

JG

But yeah guys, we should drop any talk of COM and not get too heated about things.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

RJCurrie Steve Long is a big boy' date=' he doesn't need you leaping in to his defense constantly, does he?[/quote']

 

Well, as it turns out I was wrong. My point, had I been right, was going to be that it wasn't the person who referred to COM cluttering up the character sheet who added the new Characteristics. But I was wrong.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I stand corrected.

As do I.

Re: Fog

According to 5er, page 440, basic fog is -1 to PER Roll and suggests increasing the penalty for thicker fog.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Yeah' date=' and they had the nerve to say Comeliness was [i']cluttering up the character sheet.[/i] If that wasn't so damned funny, I'd cry.

Did Steve say it was cluttering up the character sheet? I don't remember seeing him state it anywhere.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I've learned that Rifts doesn't work in Hero. I just run it as itself.

 

D+D 4th edition, on the other hand, works MUCH better in Hero.

No you learned that you were unable to make Rifts work in Hero. That doesn't mean that others can't make it work.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I haven't regarded any of it as a preview so much as Steve chatting with board members and some confirmed stuff coming down to us through the forum.

 

I don't know if Steve's even far enough along with the project to give an actual substantial preview yet. I'd expect something along the lines of a press release or website announcement as far as a preview goes. Anything else, even confirmed by Steve, I'll take as tentative till the thing goes to press.

Here is Steve's progress report from today's update on the home page:

But the things that Steve revealed are clearly happening in 6e. I have been in enough chats and face-to-face conversations with Steve over the years to be darned sure that everything that has been listed as revealed is indeed happening . If it wasn't, he wouldn't have talked about it yet.

Also, the chat was driven by questions -- the things revealed were things people asked about.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

This I also can't understand much. Secondary Characteristics are staying' date=' they are just losing their links to the Primary Characteristics. Point values are being increased to make up for the loss of that linkage. So I see it as a basic net neutral.[/quote']

 

I think that's the general idea. In the chat where Steve revealed these chances, he repeated several time, "The idea here isn't to weaken characters, it's to make HERO better."

 

The only "bad" part of the whole thing is that noobs will have to know what is a good minimum for both Rec, Stun and End. PD, ED and SPD are usually bought up anyways. As are all of the CV values.

 

I'm sure that the rulebook will have advice on this.

 

So our Char lineup will be Str, Dex, Con, Body, Int, Ego, Pre. Then Secondaries as OCV, DCV, OECV, DECV, PD, ED, SPD, REC, END, STUN. They are all going to be there. Just no one but Steve and the Mysterioius Council currently knows how much everything is going to cost. It may be that cost changes (not announced yet AFAIK) in the Primaries will make up for the loss of Secondary Chars being Figured from the Primary Chars. We will have to wait for GenCon to know for sure.

 

I don't think cost changes in the primaries can totally make up for the decoupling of Figureds, and that combined with the 4 new characteristics almost certain means that you'll more points to reach the same Characteristic levels as in 5th.

 

I am ambivalent to this change, but my GF who is a Hero Neophyte thinks the change is positive and less messy than the old system.

 

Tasha

 

I think your GF is right.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Until you run at a convention and start to get a stack of characters written for the published "norms"

Which is one of the reasons why I would never run a "Bring your own character" event at a convention.

or you gain a new player who has a pile of characters written for the published "norms"

Yes, but shouldn't they still have to rebuild the character to fit your campaign guidelines?

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I'm hoping that Steve reduces the default values for Disadvantages -- Complications. I always hated trying to come up with 150 pts of them.

He mentioned that as a definite possibility in a podcast interview around the time he started writing 6e.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

I'm thinking it's going to look weird with starting characters having huge point totals. I mean' date=' 250 to 350 took some getting used to, and I imagine this will require a bigger jump. Not that it's functionally or logically any different... it'll just look funny.[/quote']

 

Really? Huh. That change never even caused me to pause.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

 

INCOMING!!! TAKE COVER!!!

 

Actually, that's a good question. With the expected increase of recommended starting points, will the guidelines for awarding XPs per session also need to be inflated?

I'm not sure how much attention a lot of GMs pay to the XP award guidelines. It seems many of them just give out a number that feels right to them based on what happened in the session and the speed of advancement they want in their campaigns.

The guidelines are also slightly problematic when you're running a less focused campaign where a session may not focus on a single plotline but jump around from one story to another.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

Let's have a minute of silence for COM and get on with our lives.

Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

It should be a POWER, not a Talent.

 

A "Talent", for the most part, should be able to be trained for.

 

It should be a power.

 

You can learn to speed read. You can learn to feign death.

 

A Boob Job is not considered "Training."

Can you learn Danger Sense? Can you learn Eidetic Memory? Can you learn Ambidexterity? Steve doesn't think so and discusses it on the first page of the Talents section (5er page 86).

Re: Foxbat and...

When I read the thread title I think "Foxbat and Friends." It should be a rotating guest list' date=' like the old [i']Marvel Team-Up [/i]or Brave and the Bold.

Either that or a talk show. Tonight on Foxbat and Friends, President Barack Obama.

Re: Naming the baby

It's going to be two books, so they'll each need their own nickname.

 

We'll probably have to wait and see. The 4th Ed book was called BBB - Big Blue Book. Let's campaign to get Steve to make the covers teal, so they can be TTT - Two Teal Tomes. Or not.

 

Some terms from craps (the dice game):

 

Sixie from Dixie (Since they're HQ'ed in South Carolina, or was it North Carolina?)

Sister Hicks

Jimmy Hicks

Columbian Breakfast (two white lines)

 

But yes, it needs to be "organic". Nicknames must be earned.

Well Steve is based in North Carolina.

Hero Games head office is in New York City.