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Pattern Ghost

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Posts posted by Pattern Ghost

  2. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    I think some of the opposition or dismay again comes from how this preview was handled. If before 5th edition came out, someone posted from a chat these tidbits:

     

    -Aid costs twice as much

    -Damage Shield requires continuous to stay on

     

    -Regeneration is no longer a power

    -Instant Change is gone as a power

    -Both are now folded into complex rule-bending constructs under Transform and Healing

     

    People would have been pretty dismayed too... because its out of context to all the other stuff 5th edition brought us that made people go oh cool! Some might have been happy, some might have even said "wow" but would most? The reactions, I suspect, would have been often quite negative, with some even just deciding they'd pass. So far, what we've been given isn't a very tasty preview, for many players. For some its so frustrating or annoying they've vowed not to even buy the new edition.

     

    I haven't regarded any of it as a preview so much as Steve chatting with board members and some confirmed stuff coming down to us through the forum.

     

    I don't know if Steve's even far enough along with the project to give an actual substantial preview yet. I'd expect something along the lines of a press release or website announcement as far as a preview goes. Anything else, even confirmed by Steve, I'll take as tentative till the thing goes to press.

  3. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    If folk have a ton of Hunted I do my best to try to link as many hunteds together so they are more managable. Either by having them in an Organization or by being divisions of the same organization. Whatever it takes.

     

    Also, I rarely have more than an 8- Hunter my Watcheds can be higher as those are just keeping track of the character until they do something wrong.

     

    Hunteds aren't the only things with frequencies, though a lot of builds stack up three or more on a character to make up the Disads total... which is a sign of a problem right there. I'm inclined to limit Hunteds to two, with one of them being a common group Hunted.

  5. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    I would imagine he takes the "frequency rolls' as a guideline as to how often that hunted/watched complicates the PC's life.

     

    And I'd imagine that if he used everything at the frequencies given, that his games would be overrun with dealing with those disadvantages. I've never seen a GM use the actual frequencies in a game at the level laid out in the rules.

     

    Think of it this way: He has 12 players. If each of them has two disadvantages with just an 11- frequency, which is a bit over half the time, then he's got 12 disadvantages in play, having an impact on the characters, every session. Now, I'm a fan of Mattingly's work, and maybe he could do that and make it look organic to the plot, but I'm betting he doesn't actually follow the frequencies that closely.

  6. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    I disagree. My group of 12 Champions characters has 1' date='800 points in Disads for my to choose from. My adventures write themselves, really.[/quote']

     

    Ok. So, do you use the Frequency rolls? Not necessarily as rolls, but do things come up fairly regularly for all 12 characters according to the level of Disadvantage they took?

     

    I agree wholeheartedly with the idea that Disadvantages are there to fill out the characters' backgrounds. However, if you actually adhere to the idea that the things are used with the frequency given, then you either end up disregarding that rule anyway or being ruled by the Disadvantages. I'm sure there are exceptions, and I know you're a creative guy, so you probably are one of those exceptions, but for the average GM, having umpteen billion points of Disadvantages to adjudicate isn't necessarily a good thing.

     

    Also, not all plot hooks have to be expressed on the Disadvantages section of the character sheet. Plenty of background fluff that's crammed into a Disadvantage could serve just as well in the Background section of the sheet.

  7. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    150 points is an optional guideline for the maximum number of disads you can take. I have had several players opt to take less than this value. It has also been common in our group to allow a lesser amount for the high end. For instance instead of playing 200 + 150 disads, we would do something like 250+100 or even 275 + 75. The idea being that fewer well-played disads are better than a bunch that do not enter play as often. Of course our group is eight players so individual disads don't get tapped as often by the GM when having to run that big a circus.

     

    Understood. The point of having the suggestion changed in the core rulebook is that you're not always the GM, and more often than not, if you game with a group online, the GM will simply use whatever the default value listed in the book is.

     

    I probably won't run an ongoing game of 6th, but will likely set up a short online game to playtest the rules. If I do, I'll be using whatever the defaults are, since it will essentially be a play test campaign.

  8. Starting Point Totals

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: Starting Point Totals

     

    See that's just it. I sounded preachy to you' date=' but was I really? I'm sorry if asking the question the way I did set you on edge, I didn't mean to, as I said. There just seems a presumption of Calumny here that isn't justified.[/quote']

     

    OK, since you asked me a direct question: I didn't say you sounded preachy. "Preaching to the choir" is a figure of speech.

     

    The rolleyes icon on the post and the tone of the original post were both condescending. If you didn't mean that, then that's OK, I'll take your word for it.

  10. Starting Point Totals

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: Starting Point Totals

     

    Well, you're the one who started the thread preaching to the choir, one based on the assumption that the people you were speaking about were ignorant of a very basic tenant of a game system they are intimately familiar with. So, are people touchy?

     

    What compelled you to start this thread, if not a bit of touchiness?

     

    Anyway, I think you're probably a swell guy, and didn't mean to be offensive. I'm only pointing out that you sound that way.

     

    So, I'll beg off this thread, with apologies back to you, and yours accepted.

  11. Starting Point Totals

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: Starting Point Totals

     

    You know, CTaylor, you were still acting like everyone who said that they'd like the defaults changed was some sort of idiot. You were still being condescending. I'm in that group you were just condescending to.

     

    Just because you don't understand why the defaults in the published rules have value for some people in some situations, does not mean that the rest of us are idiots who don't know that we're free to change those numbers if we want to. Your post was utterly pointless.

  12. Starting Point Totals

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: Starting Point Totals

     

    I can't believe you felt compelled to start a thread on this. Do you really think that the people who frequent this board don't already know how the point totals work? Do you really not understand everything that Ghost Angel just pointed out above?

     

    Look, most of us are middle aged gamers. For a lot of us, that means that we game when we get a chance. Maybe we get to go to a con, or we get into an online game. In those circumstances, many GMs simply tell people to create characters based on the published guidelines. This is one reason why the published guidelines are important.

  13. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    The change in point level thing is really meaningless; you can make your campaign anything you want it to be, the point values are completely optional suggestions.

     

     

     

    See above on point values. The game you design is what determines points people need, not the rule book. There's nothing even remotely implied that these point levels are mandatory.

     

    I didn't know this. Thanks! :rolleyes:

  16. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    Really? Huh. That change never even caused me to pause.

     

    Took me a little bit to get used to having that extra hundred points to play with. Not a lot, but a 350 pt. 5th Edition character looks a lot less sparse than a 250 pt. 4th Edition character. The disconnect this time probably won't be as much. We're just going to be spending a few extra points to get to the same level of character that we're used to now.

  17. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    Hm. I'm not so sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised by it only being something like 350 to 400.

     

    Yeah, you're probably right. I wasn't thinking too well when I posted that. Come to think of it, I don't think it'll go higher than 450 for a standard super, and probably only that high if there are other changes that affect character building costs.

  20. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    Not to belabor the COM debate on this thread (like it isn't too late already) :rolleyes: , but since the old GAC rule I brought up is being discussed, I guess I should elaborate on how I refined it for my games.

     

    I would allow points of COM above a score of 10 to add to a character's PRE score on a 1-to-1-point basis, for the purpose of non-fear-based Presence Attacks as I described above, and for Interaction Skill rolls, when I as GM judged COM should apply. However, buying down one's COM score below 10 would also subtract from PRE on the same 1-to-1 basis for those purposes. Not only did this give a wider mechanical benefit to COM, it also added a detrimental effect to choosing to reduce COM below starting levels. I considered these effects to be sufficient to justify the cost of COM in Character Points.

     

    I shall now cease to contribute to the Never-Ending-COM-Saga. :P

     

    I'm totally not debating COM. I don't care enough to debate an aspect of a game I probably will never get a chance to play anyway. =P

     

    But thanks for the additional info! Might be useful for those who want to tweak the COM rules in their own games. =)

  21. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    As a complementary skill roll to PRE the cost of COM is right: 5 points averages +1 as a bonus (that's +10 COM' date=' so +2 on your COM roll but complimentary rolls only give +1 per 2 points you make it by). In fact 1/2 point is a tad high as COM is not always relevant.[/quote']

     

    If the only thing you use it for is complimentary skills. That's why I specified adding more utility to it as a condition of raising its cost.

     

    I think a COM mechanic does have a place in HERO, and I've certainly used COM as a complementary roll and for other purposes (sometimes I will take COM rolls for the group to determine an NPCs initial attitude toward the group).

     

    That's an interesting idea. I wonder how that could be codified into a rule? As you note below, it may not always be relevant between species. Then again, GMs are there for a reason. Like, to decide when something is relevant.

     

    However, I don't think COM, as is, is a fine enough tool to do what I want it to, and is haunted by the question: how do different species appreciate COM. You can solve that too, but it would require more rules.

     

    You don't need a rule for cross-species use of COM. All of the applications of COM are conditional anyway. I'd consider it part of campaign design to define how one race views COM in relation to another. That's more a detail of setting than anything else.

     

    Again, I do not mind that COM is gone, but I expect to be able to do everything that it could do in 6e AND MORE. If it does not do more then why change it?

     

    I agree. I'm not strongly opposed to the change, but I'd like to see an expansion of COM, and hope that's the case with the new talent. If it's just a roll modifier, then that's a step back IMO. I can live with it, in that case, but would say it's less than ideal.

  22. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

    Actually' date=' Tasha, I remember an additional mechanical use for COM that was presented in the original (pre-Fourth Edition) [i']Golden Age of Champions[/i], in which a character was allowed to add half his COM score to his PRE when making Presence Attacks that weren't based on fear, e.g. to inspire or persuade. Like several other distinctive rules elements from GAC, that one wasn't carried forward to later editions of HERO.

     

    That approach inspired my own use of COM in my games.

     

    Ah! This is perfect. I was in favor of keeping COM, defining it differently, and raising the point cost to a full point, along with giving it some function outside the Complementary Skill Rolls, to merit the cost increase.

     

    First, negative COM would have to go. COM would be redefined as the intensity of the character's appearance, not just beauty. You could chose three broad special effects (making the stat fit with the reasoning from effect philosophy) for your COM: Beauty, Ugliness, and Nondescriptness.

     

    For complementary rolls, you could apply your COM roll as per your focus. (Nondescript characters would be better at Shadowing and other skills requiring one to be discrete or blend into a crowd.)

     

    Likewise, you could use the GA Hero rule to add to different types of PRE attacks. (Again, obvious for pretty or ugly characters, for nondiscript, the PRE attack may go along the lines of appearing as an inconsequential or unthreatening target, with an exeptional result of being regarded as a simple bystander in the right circumstances.)

     

    Of course, COM can also be used to adjucate modifiers for mental powers, like Mind Control. You can already do that (target more inclined to obey a "kiss me" command from an attractive target or to attack an uglier target, etc.) with COM, but the rules don't really suggest it anywhere that I can remember.

     

    That gives COM (or a rename to Appearance/APP may be in order) a solid three areas of benefit, justifies getting rid of the stupid negative scores, and justifies a normal price cost, which adds granularity since people can now buy any value and not just even numbers.

     

    That's the fix I'd want to see for COM in 6th. The Golden Age rule of adding to PRE attacks is the final piece of the puzzel that would make COM viable at a full 1 point cost. (It'd also help flesh out PRE attacks a bit more, I think.)

     

    Not gonna happen, but I really like that GAC rule, so I just tossed it out there.

  25. 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

    in HERO System Discussion

    Posted

    Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far

     

     

    Strking Appearance, as it has been presented, is nothing I haven't already done to supplement COM. That means that, in my experience, it is not a replacement for COM.

     

    Ok, so you've already added to the game to accommodate your playstyle. According to this, you use COM, and something like what you think Striking Appearance will be. So, you have half of your solution now. In 6th, you'll just have the other half.

     

    It sounds like you need to houserule something to fit your playstyle either way you slice it.

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