ShadowRaptor

To Master Steve Long:

I was wondering this after reading some of Ultimate Vehicle and I want to make sure I understand it because the characters are going to be running from a vehicle in the first encounter (god I really hope they don't play this like its d&d and think that they can destroy it ).

I know that Vehicles have Def and Body. Def soaks the damage inflicted and Body is basically their health points, like for characters. It has no Stun value. When a Vehicle gets hit by an attack, it takes ONLY Body damage and the Stun is ignored, right? Then, it only takes Body damage if the total Body is higher than the DEF value the vehicle has, right?

Originally posted by James_Kiley

The two PCs who are from the present day and are part of the overall TE society are dealing with the sleepers as best they can -- both of them have issues of their own. They're cooperating, because they're stuck in a bad situation together. My cunning plan. :-)

 

The only other people that they've encountered have been the crew of the Dauntless, the Peregrine-class frigate they just encountered. The crew of the Dauntless is rather fascinated by them, from a social, economic, genetic, and historical perspective, but right now the PCs are fleeing from Dauntless and who knows how things will go from there. This is very much a seat-of-my-pants game, so I don't know what will happen next. I have detailed about half of Dauntless's crew and am trying to get the rest of them done before the next session.

This actually sounds like it could be one of the best player character driven campaigns I have heard of. You toss in a see here and there, and then run with what the players do in response, especially those from the 20th century. You just have to be mentally ready to be surprised though, but I am thinking that will be one of the more exciting things about it.

Re: Managen Spell Guidelines Review

Originally posted by Zoth

Remember all the caster is gone pay is the cp for the skill levels and buy a mana pool END Reserve. When he finds a managen gem that has a spell he wants he just makes the skill roll and pays the END cost.

If this is all a person spends points on, then where does the VPP comes into play???

Originally posted by Zoth

Ok after looking at the math here is what I came up with.

 

What the character really gets is a 30-70 point mulitpower with the versatility of a variable power pool with the “can only change in given circumstanceâ€.

 

Now if, if the GM would actually let you buy a VPP that had 70 point waving the max of 50 rule then the character would have to pay 70 points for this.

Pool cost=70, Control cost=30, limit (-1/2), total=70 CP

 

Now I know a VPP with that many AP would really be worth a few more point then the math shows but even so it kind of gives an idea what’s going on.

 

Now with a RSR -1 per 10 AP the character would have to pay 13-15 CP to work off the -6 to -7 penalty that he would have on a 60-70 AP spell. Now to get a reliable 14 skill the cost would be as follows: on INT the character would have to pay 19/21 CP at INT 10, 17/19 CP at INT 15, and 15/17 CP at INT 18.

 

Now with 9 skill to master every managen the character would have spend 153-171 CP

 

So I was thinking I might should drop the Increased END and maybe even lower the RSR penalty.

 

Z.O.T.H “PERFORMING ANALYSISâ€

Just because the numbers look kinda scary now, that doesn't mean they are. Keep the RSR and the Increased END because that is how magic will feel in your world. If you want the spells to cost more points than just lower the penalty costs without taking away the END and skill requirement.

I am seeing that your managen skills cost a lot more points than a regular skill, basing it off the INT of the person at the time he gets the skill. I understand why...a smarter person should pay less than a stupid person if they want to manipulate magic...but there will be people that will argue that it could be too unfair. But who says life is fair, ya know.

Now, as I understand it, if I was to make a character for your game so I can use these gems, all I would do is spend points on some of the 9 managen skills and also a END reserve to power my spells. I want Red for fire, one for ice, and the other for healing. I have a INT of 20 (I am a genius dude ). I want to have the Red at 14-, the Ice at 12-, and the Healing at 13-. I want to have a high mana recharge, the highest you have available so I can keep kicking butt, and I want a decent END reserve, maybe 20 or 30, or whatever sounds good in your game. I know the skills are actually different but this is an example here. How many total character points would all this cost to start with?

Then, why are your managen skills so costly? I know magic is rare but to spend over 100 cp on a skill to just get decent with it is too much I think.

Mana Levels option suggestion

Maybe different people can end up being able to acquire or tap into different mana levels and this could be all based on a Perk or Talent that a mage has. Based on how many points invested into the perk/talent you could end up with different kinda of mages that way.

I could see a fighter type that might just dabble in some minor magics/gems pick the lowest while a real mage user that is really focused in magic would pay the most so have the fastest recovery rate.

What do you think? If you already stated this then I overlooked it but its late right now.

Oh, have you worked on any of the other spell like abilities of your other gems?

I would think that the more powerful the spell the more taxing it would be on the body and therefore the more END it would cost to cast that spell.

Now that I see that the characters don't pay any points for gems in your system Zoth, and the characters only pay the points for the skills and END reserve, that makes a lot more sense. Way cool.

Zoth, to ask specifically, using your system, what would happen if I have a mage with four gems, and I spend the points to use them and unlock their secrets, and then some gnome comes up and takes them from me, and I never get them back? I use gnome as an example because that happened a couple times when I played that 'other' game with gnomes in it and took my stuff, once my spellbook that the DM ended up deciding that I never got back.

Sure its far off, but this situation could happen, and if I lost those four gems permanently, what are my characters options?

yeah, and I bet he has it worked that the purple managem are the rarest to find.

Thanks for the materia ideas, it is hard to translate a video game like that one into a rpg system because no one would want to take that chance in a rpg game. I sure wouldn't want to spend some points to unlock powers in a gem and then have it stolen. That would piss me off to feel that I wasted them, so how to work the system where, even if the gem is lost, you don't lose the powers themselves?

I think any system that works with gems/stones needs to answer that question so any mage who invests doesn't lose out when the stones are gone from them.

Exalted, Wheel of Time, and Earthdawn are also unique games with a good magic system.

Lisa, here is another arrow attack I was thinking of...I think this one would be pretty cool.

Have a power where the archer is able to focus his magic and as he fires off one arrow it splits into three or five arrows, and it can either all go at one person or each arrow can maybe hit different people. What do you think?

I was thinking that the number of arrows that hit was depending on how well the person hits the target, but he only started with the firing of one and it splits into more. Autofire with the special effect of arrows splitting sounds like it could work.

this is one of many I am actually having a hard time trying to create, but this one is the one I can think of right now.

I want to create a magical power in which I am capable of firing off one arrow and then in mid flight the arrow splits up into three or five other arrows. All hit the target, but using the hero system how can this power be created?

Another question for Master Steve Long:

This pertains to Weapons Elements and Martial Art packages... I have a hard time interpreting this also, but what does the +1 mean next to the weapon listed under Weapon Elements for some martial arts packages.

Example: We have this martial art, and it has

Maneuvers right here, with their point cost...then...

skills, if any that may go with martial art...then...

Weapon Elements

+1 Sword

+1 Bare Hands (these are examples)...

What does that mean? is it a skill point cost? is it a bonus to any die roll when using that weapon with the martial art? I don't know.

I am totally confused on this issue which is why I am coming to the Master Steve Long with this question and situation.

The only thing I understand about VPP and the points in them is that if I have a 50 point VPP then at most I can have active at one time is up to 50 points worth of spells...unless I am interpreting this wrong?

Okay, now I am really confused is that most spells have an active point cost and a real point cost. When I have my spells active, is it the active point (AP) that uses up the VPP points or is it the real cost (RC) that uses up the points in the pool??? I ask because I know that the real cost can be way way lower than the active points but I am confused on the implementation of this.

Oh, I know you must be asked this one a lot, but when is Fantasy Hero coming out??? I can't wait until that book comes out, it sounds awesome. Your books are awesome.

it makes a lot more sense now. Thank you for explaining it.

It is definately aimed at low character point games compared to what I am used to, but thats only because the only games I have played are champions games, and I want to play in a good fantasy game.

if this is just a thread on what I want to play, then here is what I WANT to play:

something like Torg.

something like Exalted.

something like Final Fantasy.

something like Mechwarrior.

something like Conan. (the savagry of Conan, as listed above).

something like...something with lots of races.

and all mixed together in one.....big.....bang of a campaign.

That is what I would like to play in.

I guess part of my confusion is that you have listed the categories of different kinds of spells fine but when you list the Limitations for them you only provide a number of the total involved and you don't split the Limitations up into each Limitation. I know that to do that would cause you to use more space, but for somebody like me I need to see what's all involved in them and how you get that figure.

I also saw that your game is a low powered game, and the way POW works makes a little more sense after seeing the character.

I was wondering, can any of you remember what all kinds of different magic systems Sqaresoft has used in the ten final fantasy rpgs and the one tactics game it made? I remember FF1, where their was the white and black mage and they bought their spells, I remember FF7, which was materia, and I remember FF10, which was using the sphere grid to gain powers but I can't remember if the magics themselves were labelled something like white or black. I also remember FF8, but I didn't really like that one so I tend to forget it.

Yeah, I know what you mean, which is why its good that all of you are willing to look at it and state what you think.

What if each gem had its own MP or VPP within it, and the user can only use whats already in the gem?

Personally, I like both of yours more...its not materia per se but I think trying to simulate the game exactly from FF7 would be almost impossible without making it unbalancing it in some way...both of yours are more basic than FF7, and easier to understand.

I am also trying to see how I want magic to work in my universe, mainly because I have always wanted to run a sci-fi type game with the energy and spectacular effects of star wars with the combination of magic and spectacular effects of final fantasy without the force as the main focus of magic.

One type of magic I can envision in my setting is to have special weapons that can have gems be slotted into them is one way, and if the gems cost money and the person needs a special skill to tap into the gem then only those that pay for them and have the skill and maybe a talent can use them. Another form of magic I can see in this universe is also to incorporate something like how magic is used in Exalted, which also has a FF feel to it, but I am not that good at using the hero system. I guess the second form of magic could be more like a normal magic system, and having both options could lead to some interesting combinations, but my mind is drawing blanks.

rant over...on with the gem magic, and I once again say that both systems you two have come up with are awesome.

Originally posted by mudpyr8

Seems like everywhere I turn I'm pimping my magic system. Ah well....

 

I feel your pain, and that is one of the reasons I stopped playing FH a while ago. When 5th came out, I really wanted to give it another shake. Me and my group sat down to figure out what we really wanted in a magic system. We already had an idea of the metaphysics of the world, and just needed to decide how the system(s) would work mechanically.

 

In the end we came up with the following types of power:

 

Divine Channels

Psionics

Wizardry

Druidic Power

Innate Power

 

The most common forms of power are Divine Channels and Wizardry. Additionally, we needed to ensure that not only each type was unique, but that they all mechanically were different.

 

For wizardry, this is what we have:

 

http://www.tekhed.com/hero/magic.pdf

 

The other stuff is there as well, but buried. I intend to make the other stuff more accessible, I just haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

Feedback is welcome, here or via email. Otherwise, consume and evacuate as necessary.

I read your magic system and some of it I understand but there is a lot I don't understand at all...POW is limited by the type of mage a person is, that's understandable, it limits the power of the spell a person has, but you really should have a good paragraph or two on exact spell design because I can't figure that out using your system at all. Consider me a newbie for that is what I am, and by the reading of your document it is aimed at hero players that are experienced enough with the system to know what you mean in all areas.

Lisa, that's cool. That Ice Storm attack looks devestating to both the targets and the archer.

On the archer powers with the arrows, does the archer begin with any of them or do they acquire them after gaining experience points, or both?

another question is how are you going to handle magic in your FF game?

Your archer sounds like something I could also do from Exalted, and I like Exalted also.

Here's another idea to toss out into the mix Zoth:

When a person gets the gem and figures out what kind of effects it can produce, the mage can then specify the spell within by attuning it to him based on how powerful the stone is? This way, if one person finds a Ruby and wants to use the points in the gem to create a fireball spell, then he can, while another can take that same gem, and he feels that it would better serve being a flame cone spell instead...but the one downside I can see to this is more bookkeeping during the game, but with people used to the system it wouldn't be too bad a thing.

My Materia magic idea that has its own quirks that needs to be worked out:

Each gem produces a type of effect, this we all know. Red stones produce fire, Yellow stones produce electricity, Blue stones produce ice, etc...this is all I have worked out so far using no official gem names.

In order for a person to attune the magic within the stone and use it with his weapon or armor, he must have a Talent: Materia Attuning and then a skill Materia Focusing, which is based on EGO (its the first characteristic to pop into my mind).

The gems have specific effects as the character unlocks more power of the stone, and to unlock the power the character must spend some of his own xp to attune the gem to him, and this then allows only him to use it. The gems effects are dependent on if the gem is put into a weapon, a armor, or other item, like a necklace or helmet. So, depending on what it is linked with it will do different things.

Once the person has focussed enough of his essence with the gem, then he unlocks the power and he can use it. I am thinking each gem will have specific levels of powers, from level 1 to 5, and each will have its own END reserve (but this I am not sure on). The idea is sound, in my head, but now I am trying to work on how to do this mechanically. The idea I have for now is that once the person attunes 5 xp into the gem, then he unlocks level 1 powers. Another 5 xp unlocks level 2. The numbers are merely hypothetical for now.

To attune xp into a gem, he must use his Materia Focusing skill, and the skill check is reduced -1 for each 1 xp he wishes to focus into it at the time. Also, the gem must be linked into a item the person is wearing, or else he can't attune some of his xp into it at all. I hope this made some sense.

Since I am focusing on fire like effects, I will try and use a Red Materia in this example:

Level 1:

* in a weapon, enchants the weapon to do an additional +1d6 flame damage.

* in a armor, enchants the armor to provide +3 Flame Resistance.

* in a helmet, provides infravision.

I don't know if this Materia idea would work, but at least theoretically speaking it seems, to me, to feel like how Materia worked on FF7 because the Materia got more powerful in stages as the person used it and earned points with it, and each stage, or level, of the Materia provides different effects depending on what it was linked with. That is the feel I would want if using Materia akin to FF7.

What do you think of the idea?

Work your system with examples of using both VPP and MP and see how it pans out. That's what we are here, to help you come up with a kick butt system.

Originally posted by Lisa Nadazdy

I have a the 'Archer' template written up for the most part, it includes the basic template, and a page of optional powers which are open to those who take the template as part of their character.

 

I think that's how I'll work it; c\players buy the basic template for their character, and they gain access to more advance powers connected to the template. Let me know what you think.

can you post it, it sounds cool.

It's all good in the end.

9 skills, that's quite a bit there...obviously it leads to people selecting a few and specializing in probably a couple, if that. Plus, it also allows for those who are warriors to also dabble a little bit in the use of a single type of gem if he wants to. Pretty cool. Plus a perk, which will probably cost 3 or 5 points to get.

Ok. Let's say I have a END reserve of 50 points for the powering of stones, and I have skills in White and Crimson Managen's. Each skill is 14- hypothetically. I have a Ruby and a Topaz. With the Ruby I can do Fire and Heat effects, and with the Topaz I can do Lifeforce and Spirit effects (effectively healing as its base).

Now, I want to use the Ruby to fire off a fireball effect, with a minor 2" radius explosion, so its not that big. I want it to do 4d6 damage. Can I set these effects as I wish, as I stated, or will each gem have specific effects that are already pre-determined? Like, one Ruby will only do a fireball, another will do only a flame wall...etc.

To power and use the stone I must make a Crimson skill check, am I right?

I ask these questions to understand the system because its cool and the more questions that are asked and better we understand it, the better it will be when someone plays it.

I just also wanted to state that I also have no official playtesting experience.

That said, Zoth, your list is cool. Each gem does have its own list of power effects, so if I want to fire off a blast of fire, then I use a Ruby Gem. Now, can I do ANY Fire effect I want, or are there specific levels of effects that has to be reached first?

I am understanding then that if I was to use this gem, I must first pay for a VPP for the gems so I have those points allocated to them, then also have points put into a seperate skill (and maybe even a talent that allows me to sense the magic within the gems before I try to attune them)...

Also, each gem will have its own power point total that fills up some of the VPP as I get them, and then that also depends on the quality of the gem and how prepared they are, and the size.

am I right in the interpretation, or am I way off base? Or did I somehow combine the two systems into one without realizing it?