mmshah

Re: Is Leaping too Cheap? Sure I can see that, but I used a perfect roll in that example, with an average roll of say 11, then your off by 14 Km. I suppose to make that even remotely reasonable you could be required to buy Leaping 14" with megascale (+1/4), but then trying to jump 14 Km would have a -22 Range Mod, resulting in a 14Km jump with 22Km scatter on average. That still doesnt seem too reasonable to me so lets try again with say 24" with megascale (+1/4), then on a 24 Km jump, we have a -24 Range Mod for an average scatter off 24 Km. At least your jumping in the right direction this time, but I still dont like the results. And with higher lv of Megascale more " of the base power would be required for it to make any sense. For example with Megascale (+1/2) on 32" Leaping gives -32 Range Mod with a 320 Km jump and 320 Km of scatter.

Re: Is Leaping too Cheap? I was wondering how really long leaps work, I tried to use 5R to figure it out but it didnt seem to make sense, maybe someone can explain it to me. For example if one has Leaping 1" (Megascale +1/4) then you can leap 1 Km. But you have to make an attack roll with applicable range modifers (-14 for 1 Km) assuming you have a OCV of 3 then ure target number is 11 - 14 + 3 -3 = -3, so even if you roll a 3 your off by 6 which means your off by 6 Km, but you can only jump 1 km. Now I know it says the GM can adjust this but it seems like these rules dont work at all even in this minimalist case. Maybe the scatter should be 1 down the Megascale chart as your Leaping so in this case the order of magnitude of scatter would in back down to " (2m) in scale. Also if using the realistic Leaping rules in Ultimate brick, super-strong characters can leap, Megascale type distances but since they dont use megascale, when they fail their to hit rolls they are off only by a nominal amount compared to the distance Leaped, which seems far too accurate. Am I interpreting these rules incorrectly? Or is there a better way to determine the accuracy of long leaps?

Re: Raw STR: Marvel Since when did the MU get so buff? I remember the old MU Rpg, where outside of galactic beings Str topped out at Unearthly which was about 100 tons or 60 Str in Champs. With Hulk getting to Shift Z when mad or about 999 tons or 76 ish in Champs.

Re: Triggered Recovery? As I noted before auto-reset triggers can be trouble because they have the potential to be abusive. I think this can be partly remedied by requiring valid Triggers to be specific events rather then conditions. This would prevent autoreset Triggers from auto-retriggering. Examples would include: When knocked unconcious But Not While unconcious When character takes Body But Not while character is below starting Body

Re: Triggered Recovery? 30 Slightly quicker Regeneration: Healing 3 BODY, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Whenever character is below starting BODY damage.; +3/4), (82 Active Points); Extra Time (Regeneration-Only) 1 Turn (Post-Segment 12) (-1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2) - END=0 So its like 3 normal regen, except you dont have wait until PS-12 to heal for which you pay an additional 8 CP seems ok to me. Or Alternatively build: 28 Yet another Regeneration but Different!: Healing BODY 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; Whenever character is below starting BODY damage.; +3/4), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (42 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: If the character suffers 3 Body damage on Phase 3 then you roll 1d6, reset and repeat until you roll a 6 and Heal upto 6 AP (3 Body) (rolling is kinda of silly thou since you autoreset and keep going until you Max out) then any further Body damage will not heal until Phase 3 on the following Turn.] - END=0 Which functions in a similiar manner. Only thing is you must buy it at the 1/2d6 or 1d6 level minimum. Note that Steve never said Trigger was illegal for Regen just that it doesnt allow you to Regen more then once per Turn. Thus you can still use Trigger to Regen Earlier in the Turn, you just have to wait 1 Turn after it goes off to use it again. The difference between the 2 is that in Slightly quicker Regeneration If you take less then 3 Body in a hit your Regen is used up for the Turn, while in Yet another Regeneration but Different! the Healing could function again until you Healed 3 Body Total.

Re: Triggered Recovery? I liked your write up of "He Heals Quick" of which the above are variations, but I dont think Always On qualifies given: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55142&highlight=regeneration Also technically "It's like Regeneration but Different!" requires an attack action. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58661&highlight=healing+attack+action But Healing only has Max Effect Limitations, no one use per Turn restriction, thou you have to roll higher each time to add any effect (if not using standard effect) as far as I can tell. I know Steve has mentioned Triggered Healing here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36735&highlight=triggered+healing So I think "It's like Regeneration but Different! (per wound)" is legal.

Re: Triggered Recovery? Regen cannot function more then once per Turn. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59305

Can one use an Advantage such as Trigger, Uncontrolled, Continuous etc., to circumvent the rule that you can only regenerate once per Turn? In effect, does the Max Effect rule for Healing apply to Regen just only per Turn? Further if Regen is bought with the Extra Time Limitation longer then 1 Turn, 1 week for example, can one use any of the above options to Regen faster then once per week? Or as above does the Max Effect rule for Healing apply to this slower Regen just only per Week?

Re: Triggered Recovery? In some sense you can Trigger a Haymaker, for example in Ultimate Speedster there is a power "Move and Grab By", it is Naked Trigger on STR that combines the 2 maneuvers. Thus you could buy a Naked Trigger on STR to Haymaker upto X Active Points, and by the FAQ any added maneuver DCs must also be counted in the X Active Points.

Re: Triggered Recovery? Yes, if one feels that trigger bypasses the fact that characters cannot regenerate more then once per turn. Normally Id say that yes one could use trigger to do something more often then you could normally do, however in this case the fact that characters cannot regenerate more then once per turn is stated without any qualifier leading me to interpret that it cannot be circumvented. Just as Steve stated, I agree that Trigger cant be used to get a recovery action for free, but what I'm most concerned with is why. To me its the Autoreset Triggers seem to me to be a big cause for concern, because they can activate powers very, very frequently destroying game balance. But rather then use those examples to disallow Triggers for entire classes for objects, it seems more prudent to take it on a case by case basis and let the GM allow or disallow the abusive things.

Re: Triggered Recovery? Actually Im pretty sure thats legal check out Hyper-Man's post from: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58836 The power "He Heals Quick" is virtually identical, there is one thing that you didnt note thou, its that Healing has a Max Effect in your example that is 6 Char Points (3 Body) per Week. Even using normal Healing rules not the per hit healing rules it still works as you described thou only to 3 Body Max. The more important example thou is the "I use a power or ability that costs END" example of Triggered Rec that you brought up. As we will both agree such a power should never be allowed, but the question is why. Is it that in this particular case due to the effect of the power, the GM should rule that this is an abusive use of Trigger and disallow it? Or is that because of such an example Trigger should not be allowed on REC in any case? Clearly you have to come down one way or the other its just a matter of which way is preferable.

Re: Triggered Recovery? Well its seems that I was wrong about one thing, that auto-reset triggers only reset one per Phase, the example in Fred. details that it can reset any number of times per Phase, which would also the Original Power if it worked as I described to regain All Stun by auto retriggering Recoveries until one got out of KO. So even if it were legal its clearly something no GM should allow, since you always immediately recover from KO, only death would stop it. The more important question is why should it not be legal, is it because REC is not really viewed as a Power and thus has certain limitations on what one can do with it? And if so does that mean other stats should be viewed similarly? Or is that since REC gives the power to potentially Heal lots of Stun it in particular must be viewed differently? Most people seem to be of the first opinion it seems, which is fine. But then do the other Characteristics have similar limitations? But a blanket statement like "Since Characteristics are Always On, Triggering them does nothing." isn't really correct either since one very much can Trigger STR as is used in a number of Book examples. So the question is what is the difference between the Characteristics and what is legal and what isnt?

Re: (not so) New Advantage: Not an Attack Action Indeed your right Dr. never read the italics part in there before just the Auto Riposte thing on the side that doesnt clarify how many blocks you can make. I guess its just upto the GM to rule what triggers are ok and which are too abusive.

Re: (not so) New Advantage: Not an Attack Action Personally I dont think the auto-reset trigger allows you to reset more then once per Phase, otherwise theres no restriction at all on how many times you can use a power in one Phase, which depending on how you defined your trigger could be a totally ludicrous number with no game balance at all. Id say that auto-reset still means 1 reset per phase but that it takes no time, thus it can happen not on your Phase or possibly while unconcious if the Power is Persistent. But even given the one reset per Phase you could still use the Power twice in one Phase because there is no such restriction on activation of Triggers, you just have to wait until the next Phase to reset it for the second time.

Re: Triggered Recovery? Well as I mentioned before the whole Secondary Speed thing in Ultimate Speedster can let you sort of get away with not taking a Phase to recover. For example buy +1 Secondary Speed (only to Recover -1) 5 CP This would give you an extra Secondary Action on Phase 12 only to recover. You could take a regular action and a secondary action to recover in one Phase. And you'd get ure Post 12 Recovery too. Theoretically able to get 3 Recoveries in one Phase. And these are rules made by Steve, yes they are Stop Powers, but does that make them Munchkin? Yes it doesnt help that much in the -11 and worse category, but theres a big diference between + Stun and using recoveries that I mentioned more then once now that people just seem to overlook, its that + Stun gets add once, once added if you go down again you don't get to add it again. Recoveries you can keep taking to heal up. The method of taking recoveries is what is being discussed. Having more Stun and Recovering faster are only partly related, Recovery rate depends on Stun, but the methods being discussed to recover faster are beyond that, whether they be +Speed, Trigger, Healing what have you.

Re: Yet another attempt at "Regeneration as a Defense". Im not really sure that Persistent doesnt require an Attack Action. For example take Aid for instance if we used the above logic we could add Persistent +1/2 to get the same result as Continuous for a cheaper cost. And most of the books that uses Continuous Aid Examples use Continuous not Persistent, such as Rage-Augmented Strength. Actually He Heals quick can work even faster. Dont use standard effect and the Max Effect is 24 per Turn per wound. And the trigger would reset again in the same Phase allowing you to Heal 4d6 repeatedly in the Phase until you get hit upto 24 Max (until next turn). And all sucessive you do the same thing, 4d6 more until you hit 24 in fact theres really no point even in rolling since you just keep rerolling until you hit 24. Next turn it repeats. Also Id reword the trigger to when injured, since after you take the damage you cant heal more of it 1 turn later because you didnt take damage that phase you only have damage on you.

Re: Triggered Recovery? I believe Trigger or Continuous would still be necessary for the Healing option, as Healing takes an attack action to perform, Persistent doesnt stop the need for that, just allows the power to be used while KO'd, but since you cant take attack actions while KO'd Id think you couldnt use it. I didnt know that +Speed with limitation changed ure base Speed just limited what you could do on those Phases. Actually in Ultimate Speedster there is a thing called Secondary Speed with the example Only to take recoveries (-1). Its a Stop power but one can actually build something close to what I originally intended. You can buy +12 Secondary Speed Only to take recoveries (-1), 60 CP. This would allow a recovery every Phase as well as normal actions. Or even 2 recoveries in one in Phase if you choose. The whole trigger on a Stat thing thou seems to bring up the bigger question of why is that Advantages seem limited when regarding Characteristics? It seems to me that one should be able to use the Advantages on Characteristics to create new and interesting abilites, that kind of the whole point of the generic hero system. There are plenty of examples with Limitations to Characteristics, it seems like Advantages get short changed. (Yes there are examples for Advantages on Str and Pre, but that seems mostly it.)

Re: Triggered Recovery? Well my original motivation was this, to regain Stun faster, not necessarily in bigger chunks (ie with higher REC) just more often. The reason for this was trying to build a Regeneration type model for Stun, since legally one cannot healing anything other then Body via Regeneration. Id like to point out that there are some notable differences to the alternate methods people have listed compared to using to using REC to recover Stun/End. Firstly there is no cap on REC you can take a recovery action anytime you have an action and further it is a proper heal it restores permanently those points. Aid/Succor methods only give temp points, those points fade and are limited by Max Effect (for Aid). Healing also limited by Max Effect, thou the timer can be bought down to 1 Turn, thats the fastest it can go. Also is very Expensive AP wise since Red End 0, Persistent, Trigger and Decreased Reuse Duration are required. Also Max Effect cannot be increased. + Stun with limitation, these are 1 time gains, once added they cant get added again. +Speed with limitation to Recover only, this one is interesting, due to the rules on Speed changing in combat thou youd lose your action once KO'd until such time as thou Phases matched, ie your first action wouldnt be until when you would normally go at your base Speed. And if you came out of KO then your Speed changes again and again you lose your actions until your Phases match again. However if you didnt come out of KO, youd keep the higher Speed to take recoveries faster until such time as you did. This construct can allow for faster recoveries but one is still required to take Full Phase actions. Anyway if people have more alternate methods Id like to see them.

Re: Triggered Recovery? So I guess the confusion on my part is that Im not viewing REC the stat properly. I was thinking that its like a power thats used when you take a recovery, but I guess I shouldnt think of it like that. The problem with using a flat +10 Stun with conditions is that it only applies once, and as people have pointed out then you might as well just buy the 10 Stun outright. Another problem arises when trying to use Aid or Healing, I already use Adjustment Powers to bump up my Stun, Rec, Body, End and this would then run into Max Effect issues. So I think Im left with Succor to avoid maximum effect issues, something like the following: Succor 1d6 to Stun (Red End 0 +1/2, Persistent +1/2, Trigger +3/4 (Trigger condition: when at or below 0 STUN, activating trigger takes no time, trigger resets automatically, character does not control activation of personal trigger), Self Only -1/2, Only Restore to Starting Values -1/2) I guess you could add some form of No Concious Control or Conditional Power limitation since the character cant use it normally. There would also need to be some stop condition also since its a 0 End Succor. I know people like to avoid this but it seems required since Persistent requires 0 End and without Persistent, the Succor would turn off immediately and you would lose the Stun unless that 1d6 brought you above 0 Stun. But it would add 1d6 Stun every Phase that you are at or below 0 Stun.

Re: Triggered Recovery? I guess I dont understand the trigger advantage, I thought that you could use trigger to take an action that you would normally not be able to take at the current time. What I wanted to do was to use a trigger to forcibly take a recovery action, instead of having to wait until I could do it normally and also by using the no time part of trigger to have to happen automatically. Would there be another way of doing something like that?

Would the following be legal and if not, can you help adapt it to be legal. Trigger Naked Advantage for upto 10 REC (+3/4) (Trigger condition: when at or below 0 STUN, activating trigger takes no time, trigger resets automatically, character does not control activation of personal trigger) (Reduced End 0, +1/2, Persistent +1/2 applied to the NAKED Advantage) 30 Active, 30 Real Cost What Im thinking is that when dropped to 0 or below Stun, the trigger condition activates and you get to take a recovery as an action that takes no time. Now since you can normally take recoveries while at or below 0 Stun Im thinking Persistent is unnecessary for REC, but since the Naked Advantage isnt normally persistant the trigger wouldnt normally reset even thou it resets automatically, hence the reason for Persistent on it (provided you are still at or below 0 Stun). Now the way I read the trigger advantage even if your trigger resets automatically it still cant reset more then once per Phase. Which would limit powers from being able to function more often then once per second and is very necessary to have any type of balance. Thus you are left with a power that lets you REC, 10 Stun and 10 End every Phase that you are at or below 0 Stun for 30 CP. You are still taking a recovery thou so technically youd be at lower DCV and not be able to take any other actions, thou personally Id think Id drop that part since you arent taking a Full Phase action to do it. To clarify what I wanted to describe was not +10 Rec with the trigger advantage, but rather a naked trigger to take recovery action and since naked advantages need to function on something it seemed like the Rec stat was the appropriate thing for a recovery action.

Suppose one has a Naked Advantage that is a group Naked Advantage (ie limited by active points, not tied to a specific power), can that Naked Advantage then be used twice, once to give its advantage to Str, and once again to give its advantage to HTH attack by paying its END cost twice so as to let you add the Damage Dice together without qualifier since both the STR and HTH will then have the advantage? Example: 40 Str, 40 Active, 4 END HTH Attack 8d6, 40 Active, 4 END Naked Advantage 1.5x Knockback for upto 40 Active Points (Group type Naked Advantage), 20 Active, 20 Real, 2 END So can you pay 2x2 = 4 END to use the Naked Advantage twice, once for STR and once for HTH to allow you to attack for 16d6 with 1.5x Knockback after paying and additional 4 END for Str and 4 more END for HTH for a total of 12 END? There is question in the FAQ that confuses me a bit, because it gives the example of a Naked Advantage to HTH and states that Damage cant total higher then the Active Points that the Naked Advantage can cover. Which seems a bit strange because that would mean it was a group naked advantage, not a naked advantage limited just to HTH, which doesnt go by active points, it is determined at its creation. If the example in the FAQ is how it also applies to group naked advantages, then the results are very different from just having an advantaged HTH attack and using the STR Damage stacking rules for them (ie able to add upto the base unadvantaged active points of the HTH attack in STR). Im not sure of this is intentional or a byproduct of the fact that HTH should be viewed as limited STR. If HTH should be viewed a seperate power then I would think after paying the END on the naked advantage to give your HTH an advantage, the damage stacking rules should be the same as if the HTH attack had the advantage in the first place, but it seems they are not.

If you have a Naked Advantage as a power and pay the END cost for it, what is the END cost of the Power/Characteristic it modified, is it the based of the normal active cost or the cost with the advantage figured in? Example: Naked Advantage 1.5x Knockback for upto 40 Str 20 Active, 20 Real, 2 END When using this on 40 Str does the Str cost 4 END or now 6 END, + the 2 END for the naked modifier, for a total of 6 or 8 END? It seems that in the 2nd case you have to pay the END costs of the advantage twice, which is perhaps intentional, but would like to clarify.

Im wondering if an Adjustment Power adds to a Power with a limitation, do you need to add the active cost per increment or the real cost? I know that you have to pay for the advantages, but I couldnt find in the main book about limitations. Example: Absorption to Regeneration, since Regeneration is Healing with Advantages and Limitations the Active Cost per 1 Body is 20, but the Real Cost is 7, does the Absorption have to add 7 points or 20 to add another point of Body? Thanks