assault

Re: Your superhero games, comic-based or comic-opposed?

Has anyone here been successful at getting those kinds of players to put down the latest knock-off fantasy novel in favor of JLA' date=' New Warriors or Astro City?[/quote']

 

I haven't had to, but...

 

I wasn't a comics reader when I started playing Champions back in 1982. On the other hand, I _had_ read them as a kid, had watched the Batman TV series(!), and even the odd episode of Superfriends (but I had hated it, because of the extreme dumbing down). So I was vaguely aware of the source material. (And then I started reading comics again.)

 

I think that's true of most people. Everyone has heard of Superman, Batman and Spider-Man, even if they haven't read them recently. Total unfamiliarity with the genre is unlikely.

 

On the other hand, it's likely that that was a while ago, and their tastes have evolved since. I suppose you would have to differentiate between people on the grounds of what their tastes have evolved towards. Generic brand fantasy is probably one of the worst cases.

 

What I would consider doing is using movies, rather than comics, as a crossover tool. There are lots of good, big budget superheroic action films out there now. Many of these are faithful enough to the genre to be a usable introduction. Hook your players on the movie versions of the X-Men and Spiderman, and then introduce them to the comics versions.

 

There are also some pretty decent superheroic TV series out there too. A video (or DVD, if you insist!) night or two with Birds of Prey, Mutant X, Smallville or Lois and Clark wouldn't be a bad introduction to the genre either. Heck, even Buffy or Angel would work.

 

All that would probably help to get them in the mood. If they still want to hack and slash then, well, uhh, try a Fantasy Hero campaign.

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

Players who find themselves with characters that just don't do anything' date=' get left behind, manipulated, or whatever. This is a game that asks players to "have a reason for your character to be interesting and do stuff" so playing a character like Major Bummer (a great comic I really miss) might be ok for a one-off lark... but wouldn't be accepted for a campaign. If you aren't interested in having your character "do something" in a game... I'm just not going to have you in the game as a player, that's all.[/quote']

 

Of course this misses the "classic bit" of the reluctant hero. The story of how Odysseus feigned madness in an attempt to avoid having to fight at Troy is one of the classic bits of this.

 

It's also a good starting point for a campaign against Authority-type world conquerors.

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

Look at it like this: imagine a game in which your superheroes (you are a player) get sent back to Germany in the 1920's' date=' in which you find yourself to be as powerful, relatively speaking, as the Authority are in their setting. What would you want to do as a player? Defeat some minor villain but leave the status quo as is with the result that the Nazis still take power and WW2 still ensues? Or would you do what it takes to destroy the Nazi leadership and really change history? If I were the GM, the choice would be yours. [/quote']

 

Unfortunately nearly every GM in the world would end up hosing my character in this situation, so I would prefer avoiding it.

 

As a GM, time travel in my universe is "really" inter-dimensional travel, so changing the past is impossible. Kind of.

Re: Who are the greatest (?) super villains?

In no particular order...

Obviously silliness is not an impediment to greatness in my view.

It's striking how many are Golden Age.

Mr Mxyzptlk.

Gorilla Grodd.

The Wizard (DC).

Solomon Grundy.

Catwoman.

Brainiac.

The Ultra-Humanite.

Lex Luthor.

The Joker.

Darkseid.

Vandal Savage.

Phantom Zone Villains.

The Time Trapper.

Oh, yeah - non-DC villains...

Dr Doom, Magneto, Green Goblin, Namor(!), the Hulk(!).

Re: I just can't get into Cosmic Level play

There are usually more monkeys in Cosmic level games, too.

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

It does require a "real politik" kind of view of the world on the players part... and it asks the GM to answer questions like "with such powerful individuals' date=' how does society actually function?" It forces the game away from the standard, reactionary "what is the villain doing I have to stop this week" to the more proactive "What am I going to do with my power this week?" type of game. (As Cat points out, simple reactionary superheroes would be highly ineffective if that was all that they did.)[/quote']

 

I'm sure all this makes for a fun game, but it has nothing to do with costumed crimefighters.

 

In this kind of world, my character would use his powers to get laid, not to fight crime or change the world. See Zenith for further details, including what happens when supervillains get in your face.

 

Amusing, but I still prefer cops and robbers with capes and masks.

Re: I just can't get into Cosmic Level play

Jimmy is considerably more than just a DNPC. He's been a sidekick (Flamebird), has had multiple sets of superpowers, and was made an honorary member of the Legion of Superheroes as Elastic Lad.

He's flown Whiz Wagons, jets, spaceships, and pretty much anything else that moves. He's a master of disguise, a reasonably formidable combatant, and ....

He even managed to be the star in his own title for nearly twenty years.

He's a superhero in his own right.

Of course, that's the pre-Crisis Jimmy of Earth-1, but, let's face it, that's the real Jimmy.

Now Lois is another story...

Re: GGU NPCs For Review

Assault and Battery. They sound like such a NICE couple.

It worked for me way back in the 80s.

In our case, Battery was named first, and then I had to come up with a name for my brick. Battery's player was not amused.

Both our characters were pretty badly designed, but Battery was wildly underpowered compared to Assault, and retired.

These days I'm using Assault as one of my test subjects for Cosmic power levels. He's recently discovered that he isn't a mutant like he always thought, and instead is something along the lines of a New God.

But that's my Assault. I'll have to have a closer look at Worldmaker's Assault.

Just because.

---

Done. Yeah, he's pretty cool. Not enormously powerful, but potentially extremely dangerous.

Battery too.

Well done.

Re: I love The Ultimates

While I haven't read the Ultimates, I am actually reading Ultimate FF. That's an unusual lapse into Iron Age-ness for me.

Well, OK, I also read Catwoman, but that's because it's good.

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

But now, she has found the common thread to her past... a chemist who devised, reworked, and experimented with the serum her family all ingested. This man has taken the lives of many, he has mutated unwilling subjects into horrific murderous beasts, he has warped the minds of more than one group of young teenagers and turned them against society, he has ruined the lives of several people she's met, and even a few she's worked with... and there's not telling when he will stop, or if he can be made to. He has many people working for him, many contacts, and lots of connections. And if he stays alive, it is a guarantee more people will pay the price... death, or in some cases even worse.

 

...And Descant wants to kill him.

To be honest, he sounds like a pretty standard bust. Just make sure that there's enough evidence against him to lock him up forever. Of course, someone will try to get him to work for them, so Descant will see him again.

If all else fails, arrange a situation where someone else kills him, or he has an accident.

In my games, prisons generally aren't built with revolving doors.

Oh, and if you want a villain to die and stay dead, make sure you point this out to the GM.

Re: I just can't get into Cosmic Level play

Here's a thought: how many points is Jimmy Olsen built on?

The answer, of course, is: lots.

A lot of it is probably in a Pool, which is why he only uses anything once or twice.

If Jimmy can justify being built on Cosmic point totals, anybody can.

Re: Timelines

I find them useful as a world design tool.

They're also interesting to read, and write.

eg:

~2000 BC: glowing green meteorites fall on Atlantis....

~1650 BC: Atlantis destroyed. There are three groups of survivors....

I also often extend them into the future, too, for convenience in designing time travel scenarios.

Re: Code VS Killing Poll

The most obvious factor is that killing is illegal. A killer hero is a criminal, not a crime fighter.

I generally go with CvKs for my PCs. Perhaps with some scope for "in case of war, break glass".

Comments on other people's comments:

Vampires aren't generally regarded as being covered by CvKs.

Batman and Robin's CvKs preceded the Comics Code by well over a decade.

Re: Liberty or Freedom League?

'Liberty' and 'Freedom' are usually thought to be the mark of a Golden Age team but this isn't quite accurate either. What they are in fact are the marks of a Roy Thomas 70s retro Golden Age team. Neither has ever been used for a genuine WW2 era supergroup. They were first employed in 'The Liberty Legion' and 'Freedom's Five'' date=' both in 1976.[/quote']

 

Not quite. Len Wein created the Freedom Fighters in 1973, from various old Quality Comics characters DC owned the rights to. They showed up in one of the JLA/JSA crossovers, and had a short-lived series in the late 70s.

 

They included: Uncle Sam, Black Condor, Doll Man, the Human Bomb, the Ray and, of course, the Phantom Lady.

I was reading Galactic Champions, and it occurred to me that having your characters' special effects be "cosmic power" wasn't the best idea in the world.

Why, because everyone and their dog will have defences "only against cosmic power" and maybe some other effect. For example, Lightning Lady will have a force field "only against cosmic power, electricity and lightning". Why? Because, of course, her "lightning" powers are a specific manifestation of "cosmic power".

The LSH works quite well, incidentally. I've been building their early members.

In 1953, there was a story called "Superman's Big Brother". It was reprinted in "Superman in the 50s" in 2002. The character that showed up there was a precursor of "Superboy's big brother" - Mon-El. He had all the stuff that Superman had, except that he had to pay endurance for it, and wore out really quickly. In other words, he's a really easy design. And his costume was exactly the same as the one Mon-El wore when he turned up later in the same decade.

The original three members of the LSH were pretty easy designs. Two were energy projectors, and the other was a mentalist. And then there was Ultra Boy. He was basically just an energy projector with a bunch of enhanced senses on his first appearance.

In other words, before you get into them in detail, the LSH consisted of three energy projectors (Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy and Ultra Boy), a mentalist (Saturn Girl) and a Superboy lookalike (Mon-El). Modify Mon-El to be his precursor that I described above, and you can build them all on whatever points you like.

And, of course, they all can suck up "cosmic power" until the cows come home. After all, what do you think is powering their powers.

So cheap. So easy.

Re: Cosmic character for review

The following thread had a bunch of 750 point characters, including a rather crudely designed high-powered version of Assault. He needs some serious reworking, although he had some good aspects.

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12524&page=1&pp=15

Re: Cosmic character for review

While your well-meant and to the point (useful for the day SL eventually decides to do Ultimate Energy Projector' date=' the sooner the better) suggestions certainly have much merit regarding Standard Energy Projectors, I do not really think they are needed for my character, who is purposefully built to be a Cosmic Brick/Energy Projector. 105 STR with Variable Advantage, 50/50 PD/ED, Damage Reduction, 30 REC, 100 STUN... Who the heck cares about martial arts ? Any martial artist short of really high-end anime level has no hope against him. [/quote']

 

You stack martial arts on top of your other powers....

 

Assault can take your character in hand to hand combat on 700 points. Unfortunately he wouldn't be any tougher on 1000 points, since his character conception maxes out about where he currently is.

 

Of course, I could always go with the "radiation accident" gadgeteer version I designed a few months ago, and zap your character with the cosmic bazooka from Apokolips.

Re: Cosmic character for review

Well, I got Galactic Champions today, and, of course, I redesigned Assault on 700 points. Then I compared him to your character.

Don't get caught in any enclosed spaces.

I mean that. I've played energy projectors before.

If a close combat specialist can close with you, and you can't run/fly away, they will pummel you into a small pile of paste.

Buy martial arts.

I mean that.

Changing the subject, Assault is a fine old close combat specialist, who wouldl suck hugely against energy projectors who have the opportunity to stand off at a distance. But that's OK, he was never intended to be a cosmic level character. But, he actually works quite well against the sample characters in GC...

Re: Name My Character

...can anyone suggest some cool names that the local media may have come up with to refer to these 'strange sightings of the winged vigilante?'

Eww... relying on the media for names will usually give you a dumb name. Like "Doc Ock", for example.

Dragon Man sounds likely, unfortunately.

For better names, go with latinised versions: Draco, Draconis, Draconius, Draconian etc; or with mythological dragon names - but unfortunately most dragons in "western" cultures are villainous. You could also go with names derived from celestial objects - comets, stars, etc.

To repeat myself: PCs shouldn't rely on the media for names, unless they want dumb names!

Re: Campaign Premise - Elite: Year One

The main problem is that most elites wouldn't use their powers for anything in this situation, but would simply stay underground.

You need to ensure that the PCs can't/won't do that.

Ways of doing this include having their powers erupt in public, ensuring that they can't go back to their previous lives; having distinctive features (wings, tails, fur, horns, being big and green, etc); having accidental change, physical limitations or dependencies; or having really strange backgrounds and/or psych limitations.

I suspect that the most likely "adventuring" elites would be serving or former military, law enforcement or espionage personnel. Other high-profile elites would either be on the run, or would be involved in rampages/monster hunts.

Reading early issues of the Hulk would probably be useful.

Re: Teams that Want to Change the World

I'm working on a quick mini-writeup of an outfit I have sitting in my files called "The Pledge", which I've never really taken beyond a rough concept/outline before.

The short version is: during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a bunch of supers signed on to trying to prevent, or stop, the then apparently imminent nuclear war. Later on, they opposed the involvement of supers in the Vietnam war, adopted a pro-mutant position on an "equality with normals" basis and so on.

Fast forward a few decades, and you have a left-wing anti-interventionist group who are willing to defend even the grubbiest right-wing dictatorships against liberal do-gooders and conservative super-patriots alike. And then provide covert assistance to the opposition to these dictatorships... They prefer not to go head to head with major governments, because they know they will lose, but they will face off against other supers.

Their main deal is fairly standard mutant rights stuff, though.

They have a few, mainly mutant, heavy hitters, some very serious scientists/gadgeteers, allies in strange places, lots of relatively low powered non-adventuring supers, non-super contacts, and a few non-powered but capable operatives. And a few hippy mystics, even though most of the core of the organisation don't really believe in magic.

I'm still struggling with getting the core membership of the group to feel right. Part of the problem is that the group isn't necessarily built around its toughest members... I also want a feel that isn't quite as X-Men as the usual mutant rights outfit.

Hopefully I'll have more tomorrow.

I was visiting my parents today, and my dad mentioned he had found an old box full of comics...

My old comics from when I was a kid!

There aren't a whole lot of superhero ones. What there are are DC reprints, more or less like I remembered.

It looks like I was more into Jimmy Olsen than I remembered. There's more Jimmy than anything else. But I don't mind, because they're... gooood.

A brief quote:

"Daily Planet reporter Jimmy Olsen is famed not only for being the pal of mighty Superman, but also because of the weird transformations which in the past have changed him temporarily into a Wolfman, a Human Porcupine, a giant Turtle Man and other unusual forms! But one day Jimmy finds himself transported to another planet where his grotesque identities exist! And Jimmy faces a horrible menace on -- The World of Doomed Olsens!"

There's just so much other good stuff too. I'm in raptures.

Re: What do you like about the various ages of comics?

Golden Age: they were making it up as they go along. Characters like Superman and Batman were new, and still being invented. The pulpish bits are particularly interesting - mysteries are fun.

Silver Age (DC): the stuff I read as a kid. Classic sense of wonder coolness. And some good silly fun.

Silver Age (Marvel): a new beginning, heroes with problems, etc.

Bronze Age (DC): an interesting combination of Silver Age (Marvel) and Silver Age (DC). Some of the attempts to deal with "real issues" are hilarious in their cluelessness. And others worked very well. By the end of the period, "Marvel-style" titles like the New Teen Titans.

Bronze Age (Marvel): continuation of Silver Age (Marvel), mainly. "When the X-Men were good"!

Bronze Age (minor publishers): sometimes excellent. Sometimes hopeless. Often pushed the envelope beyond where the majors could go.

Iron Age: Difficult to define. Really a continuation of the (late) Bronze Age. The prevalence of graphic novels and reprints probably makes it easier than before to appreciate the full range of all previous periods.

Unfortunately, "Iron Age" tends to be associated with a small number of mean-spirited and generally inane titles. I would tend to dismiss them as an aberration, except that their "creative teams" seem to be the stars of the industry at the moment, and will be emulated. Still, a broad spectrum of titles are being produced, so the nasties are only a small part of it.

In other words, the Authority sucks, unlike four-colour titles like Catwoman.

Re: Well of Worlds and the Dreamtime

A lot of indigenous people aren't incredibly thrilled by outsiders making use of their cultural material/intellectual property. Doubly so if bits of different cultures get stuck together into a hybrid structure.

Some years ago a friend of mine wrote a book that uses such material reasonably authentically, and in a way that just begs to be lifted wholesale for a Champions game. Unfortunately it would be almost impossible to track down for anyone without access to major Australian libraries!

For what it's worth though, here are the details, and a bit of a summary:

http://www.penguin.com.au/PUFFIN/features/aboriginal/title-details.cfm?SBN=0140111727

"In his twentieth year, mixed-blood Aborigine Tommy Gubba is initiated in the eternal flames into an ancient clan of sorcerers - the Kadaitcha. Accompanied by lesser spirits, he is sent into the mortal world to take revenge on the fair-skinned race, the invaders of the South Land who have plundered its wealth and laid waste to the chosen people. His fate has been ordained, and Tommy must race against time to confront a savage, evil foe."

It's pretty grim reading. NOT for kids.

Re: Silver Age Flash - Any Explanation for Iris West?

The Flash we are talking about first appeared in 1956, and his appearance marks the beginning of the Silver Age.

At that point Iris West had no idea that Barry was the Flash. The idea that she did came decades later.

The idea that the Fastest Man Alive was also the Slowest Man Alive was part of the character's conception. Iris wasn't supposed to be horrible - just frustrated about Barry always being late.

Eventually, of course, she was killed off. And then resurrected, and generally twinked around with by writers and editors with nothing better to do. But she was originally a bog-standard superhero's girlfriend (DNPC).