assault

Re: Magnus: Robot Fighter

Magnus' date=' Robot Fighter[/i']... Man, I haven't seen an issue of that since Gold

Key Comics had the title.

 

Major Tom

What, you mean Gold Key lost the title?

MRF was one of the things I read when it was marginal that I could read at all... In fact, I probably couldn't, when I started.

The titles available in a provincial city in Australia at the time were a bit haphazard. My first introduction to the Marvel characters was a promotion an icecream company did, where they produced glider toys that had pictures of people like the Hulk, Thor, and other non-entities I had never heard of on them.

My "kid era" experiences of comics included DC, the Phantom, Magnus Robot Fighter, Archie(!), various Disney comics (including Super Goof - don't forget him!) and, of course, a whole bunch of war comics. The fact that a lot of them were Australian reprints meant that I got to read a lot of Silver Age classics well after their original publication, and before their republication. In particular, I developed a love of the JSA, very late in the 60s/very early in the 70s.

But then my comics habit died. Even then, you see, I was selective. I missed a lot of the finest and weirdest stuff. I actually remember the covers of some things I am currently kicking myself for not having bought and sealed in really cool plastic, because I would really love to read them. In fact, I would even take up smoking non-tobacco (again) just to appreciate them properly.

These days, I spend more money on reprints than on current stuff.

I didn't get back into comics until until after I started playing Champions. I did a good job of doing it though, since, fortunately, some of my fellow players and sometimes housemates had really good collections. I've read the New Teen Titans. And, a fair bit of the second series of Teen Titans. And bits of the Secret Society of Super-Villains. And a fair slab of Green Lantern/Green Arrow. And, of course, the new X-Men, including the Phoenix saga. And, of course, Frank Miller's run on Daredevil....

Blah blah. You know. Lots of the good stuff. A lot of it is in my collection now.

Oops. BTW, in your opinion, is there going to be a third X-Man movie, and, do you think, do you think, will Jean Grey make "an appearance", do you think?? I do.

Well, duh. If they can pay the actors enough cash for a guaranteed blockbuster.

Re: What happened to seeker??

He was killed by a group of Australian Gamers for his butchering of the Australian dialect!

Well, there is that...

To the very limited extent that he exists in my CU, he's come back to Australia, and is busily training young martial artists for Assault to beat up.

(Besides, he never ticked me off as much as Captain Australia.)

Then again, I'm not entirely sure that any of the characters from the official CU exist in my world. It depends on my mood.

Re: Does Sapphire bug anyone else?

My character Assault has always had a touch of "happy go lucky hero" about him, so I'm certainly not going to rain on Sapphire's parade for not being a self-pitying basket case.

On the other hand, I doubt Assault would give her the time of day if they met. Actually, I doubt Assault would find any of the 5th Ed Champions interesting. He'd probably get on well with Seeker though, at least once everybody's favourite swashbuckling Ninja put a shirt on, and bought some Combat Luck.

Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers

Considering the usual Silver Avenger costume and iconography' date=' "Southern Star" wouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps "Silver Star," with the seven-pointed Australian star as his emblem.[/quote']

 

Howabout "Phantom" or "Silver Phantom" if he's from the Australian SAS (they got the nickname "Phantoms of the jungle" in Vietnam).

 

These are all good ideas. I was already considering "Southern Star". The "Phantom" line of thought is kind of amusing, since local reprints of Lee Falk's "The Phantom" have been available for eons, and have even been supplemented by some local work.

 

Hmm...

 

On other contributions to the thread: I'm very fond of Red Shield. I've got him hanging around in Cuba these days, training young supers.

Re: Sin City

In two words: Cop Show.

There's plenty of these on TV. They range from realistic to silly. Pick the style you prefer.

Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers

I'm inclined to agree with the permanent effects and 5-10 point spread arguments. I just wanted to get a feel for everyone else's opinion.

I'm considering having PRIMUS train a Silver Avenger for Australia. The idea is that Australia is a close ally of the US, and doesn't have a lot of supers, so the US government might be willing to collaborate with the Australian government in this.

I'm having trouble thinking of a suitable code name for him though. All I've come up with so far is the following quote:

"My boss and I came to an amicable agreement. He agreed not to call me Captain Australia, and I agreed not to cram his desk where the sun don't shine."

I'm considering adding him to my "potential personal PC" file, as well as using him as an NPC. Hence my concern about his name - I don't want it to be something I wouldn't use for my own PC.

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

Further, bringing Batman or Superman into a discussion of Silver Age Comics is basically flawed since both are Golden Aged characters to begin with. Superman #1 is pretty commonly regarded as the end of the pulp era and the begining of the Golden Age afterall.

We're _not_ talking about Silver Age comics. We're talking about "four colour" comics, which covers Golden, Silver and at least some Bronze age material.

Of course, not everything published in any of those periods was exactly "four colour".

CvKs were imposed on Batman and Robin fairly early on in their careers, just not in the beginning.

From where I sit, the Golden Age began with Action #1, not Superman #1. Of course that is an arbitrary distinction, since Superman was still a very pulpish character. Bits of his concept had been used by Siegel and Schuster in their earlier, more pulpish work. Slam Bradley and Dr Occult are good examples of this. In fact, Slam Bradley pretty much was Superman, minus his superpowers - a bog-standard action tough guy.

But if you want to talk about Marvel Silver Age, you might want to consider the continuity between their superhero comics and their earlier horror/monster titles.

Ant-Man began as an unnamed non-costumed scientist, while the Hulk was a plain old misunderstood monster, like all the other misunderstood monsters.

I will refrain from mentioning "Captain America, Commie Smasher", since I've only seen images of the covers, not the material inside.

I would like to hear peoples' opinions on the following matters:

(a) What happens if a Silver Avenger stops having Cyberline treatments?

( How much variation would you allow between different Silver Avengers' physical characteristics? For example, could one SA be noticeably stronger than average? If so, how much?

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

By the Silver Age' date=' there were already a number of cliche's from the Golden Age and pre-Comics pulps and strips.[/quote']

 

The Silver Age has nothing to do with it.

 

Lots of cliches emerged during the Golden Age. And, yes, some were taken over from the pulps and strips.

 

But still, there was a distinct streak of originality there.

 

It's entirely possible to break down characters like Superman and Batman into a list of elements "borrowed" from other sources, but the combination is where the originality lies. So, while Batman was a standard pulp detective who happened to where a Superman-style costume, the combination was new.

 

More to the point, the whole set of four colour conventions didn't initially exist. Batman didn't originally have a code against killing. Neither did Robin. Nor, for that matter, did the concept of the teen sidekick really exist before the creation of Robin. All this stuff had to be invented.

 

Speaking of Codes against Killing: Captain America and Bucky didn't have them during WWII. They were quite happy to mow down Japanese and Nazis en masse....

 

And all this stuff was four colour. Literally.

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

Generally hackneyed and cliched concepts.

As always, they weren't cliches the first time...

Re: Master List of Distinctive Features?

For instance' date=' Dr. Silverback doesn't have DF, [/quote']

 

Hence the old joke: "A Thunder God and a gorilla walk into a bar..."

Re: Silver Age Superteam Archetypes?

Unless you give him to the 'Cap' character as a Follower.

Yes. I was editing my post to discuss this when you posted.

To repeat myself: I think it adds excessive complexity for this kind of game.

Re: Silver Age Superteam Archetypes?

How about a robot or teenage sidekick.

There are two ways you can use sidekicks. Both have problems as far as this kind of game is concerned.

First, you can use them as PCs. The problem here is that they tend to be less powerful than the other characters. This isn't necessarily a problem for experienced players, but it is likely to be a problem for less experienced ones. Of course, if your sidekick is called "Supergirl" that isn't so much of a problem, but you still have a "Superman" floating around.

Second, one of your characters can have an NPC sidekick. This, unfortunately, adds complexity to the play of the game, which isn't good for beginning players. It also can have the effect of giving the player in question too much "screen time". That is, of course, unless you hose the sidekick, and essentially use them as a DNPC. That's fine, but it tends to create a false impression of the usefulness of sidekicks! You would probably be better off using a more standard Lois Lane/Aunt May type for this kind of role.

So, in general, I wouldn't recommend a sidekick for this kind of game.

Re: Silver Age Superteam Archetypes?

The FF archetypes are pretty classic:

Smart Guy

Strong Guy

Young Impetuous Guy

Romantic Interest/Sidekick Girl

Obviously these days you would replace the last one with a stronger character.

Their powers corresponded to the "classic" elements of Water, Earth, Fire and Air. You could shuffle these around a bit.

You want two more?

Mystic/Mentalist

Living Legend of WWII

One of your characters might have a somewhat monstrous appearance.

You could also have a bunch of "Smart Guys". The Avengers had both Iron Man and Ant Man.

You could also break up the "Smart Guy" role between "scientist" and "detective". That way you could have both Barry Allen ("scientist") and J'onn J'onzz ("detective").

Oh, and you could also have a thunder god, a robot and a talking gorilla.

Re: Setting up a new game (general questions)

Tell them about the following website:

http://theages.superman.ws/welcome.php and point out the "read comics online" function.

There once was another site I would have pointed them too, but it's shut down.

Really, of course, the problem is: are they happy with the genre?

If they want to hack and slash, they are going to.

If they want to loot, hand them some pregens with lots of wealth.

Many Golden Age characters are still being published. With care, you can use modern versions of these characters to show what their Golden Age versions were like. Batman, Superman and Captain America are probably suitable for this.

If anything, the present day versions of these characters are less lethal than their Golden Age counterparts.

Re: Weakest Supers in books you've read?

I wouldn't pick on Robin as the weakest non-powered super. I'd go for one of the other sidekicks who wasn't trained by Batman, and who doesn't have the range of neat gadgets.

Come to think of it, there's Robin, and there's Robin, and there's Robin. Tim Drake may well be the best trained fighter. Dick Grayson probably had the best all-round training. Jason Todd was probably the lamest. That's not counting the various Robins from things like the Dark Knight Returns and so on.

Personally, there is no way in the whole wide world that I would play a character with a name like "Sandy the Golden Boy". Eww...

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

The strings are cut. For the first time in many generations (if not centuries or millenia)' date=' the orcs suddenly find themselves having free will. They are no longer supernaturally compelled to be evil. Now what happens? Do the automatically become good? I doubt it. They have no concept of what it means to be good. Is there some alternate supernatural force that will suddenly make them good, like a "Good Overlord"? That seems rather silly to me. I think this would be a great place to *start* a campaign, rather than end one. The orcs have to figure out who they are, and what their values are, and how to live their lives, and how to build their society. [/quote']

 

Interesting.

 

Of course, usually when the Dark Lord falls, most of the Orcs get killed off in the catastrophe, but, yes, there would be survivors.

 

I guess they would do what they have always done - head for the hills and turn bandit.

 

The fall of the Dark Lord rarely sees the eradication of Evil as such - just its major focus. New threats usually arise.

 

So Orcs will usually find themselves either self-employed, or working for a new boss, rather than going into another business.

 

I doubt they would end up forming a distinct society of their own in any short period of time. In the long run they might, I suppose. In the short term they would probably be stuck with whatever band/clan form they kind of inherit. The toughest/smartest leads, with the aid of a clique of toadies and bullies.

 

Now, if we go with the idea that the original Orcs were corrupted Elves or whatever, that is, that they are fallen immortals, it is possible that one or two of them may be capable of repenting and being forgiven. But this is pretty much like vampires gaining souls - it can happen, but it's pretty rare.

 

There is one final conception of what Orcs are, and that is that they are just another bunch of humanoids, who happen to have fallen under the Dark Lord's power. That is, they are essentially just the same as the humans that worked for him. In that case, they could behave in exactly the same way as the latter.

 

This is the case where they could build a "Good" society.

Re: Is "evil race" an intrinsically rascist concept?

Halfelves and half-orcs are infertile' date=' are they? That'll be news to Elrond and Elros. [/quote']

 

In fact, of course, the situation is a "none of the above". We aren't dealing with scientifically defined species, obviously, but we aren't dealing with culturally defined "races" either.

 

It's entirely normal in fantasy literature and mythology for radically different groups to be interfertile. The whole demigod thing is the best example!

 

This isn't something that can be formally defined - "it just is".

 

As for Agemegos' political scruples - I think you are trying too hard. There is a difference between fantasy and reality.

 

I'm not going to give you my political resume, but I'm quite happy killing imaginary orcs, or playing with plastic panzers, and then going out and campaigning against racism and militarism. I've been doing it for decades, and I'm planning on keeping doing it for decades.

 

So, just - chill out.

Re: What is Evil?

A good example of the problems of applying modern moral conceptions to the ancient world is the slave revolt lead by Spartacus (and the earlier Sicilian revolts, but few people know about them).

The slaves were, of course, the most nastily oppressed section of society (in general). Clearly, their revolt was morally justified - "Good".

I'm not stressed about their various acts of reprisal against their owners - sometimes chickens come home to roost. Fussing about their "Evil" acts here is really just siding with their owners.

The more difficult question is: what social and political conceptions did they hold? What kind of society would Spartacus have led if he had survived?

The answer, unfortunately, is that he would have probably wound up leading a society very much like the one he rebelled against!

Why? Because, ultimately, he would have had no choice.

Reality is rarely generous in such matters.

Re: Doulocracy: how's it work?

I think the slave bureaucrat idea is right. The Romans were into this kind of thing as well, although they mainly used freedmen - former slaves. This ensured that the nobility still notionally had the power of hiring and firing their officials.

Having your officials dependent on you is a good way of ensuring they rule in your interests, rather than their own. They get privileges, you get loyalty.

Someone else mentioned the mixed Native- and African-American settlements in the southern US. Apparently, at least some of the "slaves" "owned" by Indians were actually free, but passed as slaves when dealing with white officials. Amongst other things, it reduced the probability of them being (re-)enslaved for real.

Re: So, how do you plan on using your Galactic Champions?

I'm seriously considering having an LSH style future team interacting with my Silver Age silliness. But that's a team from the _real_ future - the far distant 21st Century! You know the period - flying cars, robots, and nuclear families living on the Moon.

And just think - if Adlai Stevenson hadn't been elected, it mightn't have happened.

Slightly more sanely, the Big Giant Head is likely to make an appearance. It's just so _right_.

Re: Faster than a speeding bullit...

I'd like to keep his super leap for a "typical" tall building in the 30's' date=' probably a 40 story building (or is that extremely tall, don't know). [/quote']

 

The quote for Superman was that he could "hurdle a twenty story building".

 

Exactly what "hurdle" means could be subject to interpretation, but I wouldn't be too fussy.

 

He should have swimming - he swam the Atlantic a couple of times early in his career.

 

The escalation in his power level began _very_ early, so the official initial statements about his abilities were very much starting points to be exceeded. But, frankly, I wouldn't stress too hard about it for a Champions character. Of course, you could always build him on 700 points - he'd be able to do everything he did from 1938-1940, easily. And probably 1941, to boot.

Re: Character Challange: Superman Clones

Actually' date=' Marvel has two of the most blatent rip-offs if you ask me: Hyperion (of the Squadron Supreme/Squadron Sinister team of JLA rip-offs) and Gladiator (of the Shi'ar Imperial Guard).[/quote']

 

Well, Gladiator doesn't really count, since he's a relatively rarely seen supporting character.

 

Hyperion does fill the role, but only in the Squadron Supreme Earth, not in the main Marvel universe.

 

Being a rip-off and actually filling the role are two different things, IMHO.

Re: Character Challange: Superman Clones

I've been thinking about this a bit more.

Other comics publishers have had plenty of Superman clones - Captain Marvel (Fawcett), Captain Atom (Charlton), Captain Atom (the Australian 50s one), Marvelman (British "continuation" of Captain Marvel), etc. Most of these are flying bricks. They were all pretty much top dogs in their own universes.

Marvel doesn't really have one. Captain America comes closest, but that seems to be more a Silver Age and subsequent development. In the Golden Age he coexisted with people like the Human Torch and Namor, whose powers were more Superman-like than his.

Still, he's near enough to suggest that the key element is attitude, reputation and role than rather than powers as such.

There are other DC characters that could potentially fill the Superman role. Wonder Woman is obvious enough. Also, though, some of the Green Lanterns are possibilities, too. First of all, on many worlds, the alien Green Lanterns actually are the top dog heroes, and so presumably hold that degree of respect in at least some cases. Even on Earth, Hal Jordan was a pretty well-regarded guy, only overshadowed by Supes. In his absence, he could have stepped up to the role readily enough.

Better yet, of course, there was Alan Scott. This was actually done with him to some extent, once the Golden Age Superman was written out of continuity. Scott became probably the highest profile, high power Golden Age hero. The only other real contender was the Flash. That's because Dr Fate and the Spectre - the other heavy hitters - tended to operate in the shadows of the mystic world a bit more.

So there is an example of an Energy Projector at the top of the heroic heap. Of course, he's effectively invulnerable, and his telekinesis gives him "superstrength", so he has most of Superman's abilities anyway. Perhaps more to the point, he has a certain fondness for closing in and finishing the bad guys with a good old right to the jaw. In other words, he's still a physically oriented action guy.

That's probably another aspect to the matter. An egghead probably can't fill the role. Reed Richards and Charles Xavier need not apply.

There is also a question of cockroach persistence and unstoppable determination. The Marvel character that epitomises those characteristics is Ben Grimm. He, unfortunately, can't fill the Superman role because, to be blunt, he's too ugly!

So there are three more criteria: action-oriented physicality, persistance (determination, willpower..) and a certain degree of physical attractiveness. This probably also shades over into general charisma.

Re: Character Challange: Superman Clones

1. The First and Greatest. The Hero of Heroes. The Inspiration. This is the essential characteristic. Everything else is optional.

2. Powerful. Brick-like defences.

3. Does not need to be able to fly - Superman himself couldn't when he started! Nor could Captain Marvel (the real one). However, he should be able to run, jump and swim really fast.

4. Doesn't necessarily have to be a true brick - a really powerful energy projector could fulfill the role. See point 1. Of course, this option and option 3 are mutually incompatible!

So, a Superman Clone needs to meet case 1, but can otherwise be:

(a) a flying brick (the default)

( a non-flying brick

© a flying energy projector.

The key is attitude and social role more than powers.