Dust Raven

Re: Would you allow?

The issue here (at least for me if I was playing in the group too) isn't with the use of the optional rule to turn off an Always On Power. This is an established rule the GM is free to use, and the limited amount of gain is offset by the limited point break the Power gets in your given examples. Instead based on the SFX of the described Powers, I'd say neither would be limited by Always On in the first place.

Now, if the GM has assigned some disadvantage, or has approved a player suggested disadvantage, for these abilities being Always On, as long as it affects them appropriately for the points saved I'd say all is good. Obviously if the character is injured and unconscious and needs medical attention, he can't turn off his Clinging to allow a medic to lift him or move him unless he's making a STR roll every Phase, which might be worth that 1 point. I can't think of anything for the KBR, but maybe the GM has. I'd suggest find out what that is from your GM and hopefully whatever it is will satisfy you. If not, continue to talk with your GM about it.

Keep in mind though that this is only 2 points. It might be worth your time to simply forget about it.

Re: Flying Dodge

If you're going to ignore Steve and houserule it' date=' why not just have the attack occur [i']before[/i] the target gets behind cover, as Steve himself suggests in the rationale behind the maneuver?

Because Steve is wrong. That is to say, I go usually along with his rules rather than his explanations of them. As it is, I don't even consider my recent suggestion a house rule, but instead an inadvertent omission in the description of what happens when someone Flying Dodges out of LOS of the attacker. In fact, I'll go so far as to say Steve's answer/explanation would have been different if approached from the angle of LOS rather than cover, but that's pure conjecture.

Re: The Uber-Blast

Games like CoH don't really follow the same dynamic as table-top RPGs. I've never seen a blaster in Champions cycle through his attack Multipower and wait for his slots to recharge. Obviously if such a high damage power was available to you, you'd use it as often as possible. In a more story-like setting, as often as possible is determined by plot and drama rather than a recharge mechanic.

Granted, I've always wanted to run, or play in, a table-top game with powers such as these. I use the house rule I posted above for everygame use (for a superheroic setting), but I rarely see people take advantage of it and have never played with a GM who used it (or allowed a Power to be built to mimic it).

Re: Not Dead Yet

So far I like the Summon version. I can easily write that up with things like One Non-Recoverable Charge and Trigger so it goes off at the moment of death, and the SFX is that is animates the recently created corpse.

Another idea I've had is simply adding in some extra DEF with a clever Limitation of "Only To Prevent Death For Two Phases". Basically he continues to take damage as if he didn't have that DEF, then when "dead" he just keeps going for a bit. This would make tracking massive damage easier, because if you can kill him by doing enough damage beyond this extra DEF, he just dies.

Re: Not Dead Yet

It's unclear from the original post (above) whether the intent is that sufficiently massive damage can destroy the creature before its two extra phases are up. The intent in this regard would make considerable difference to the build.

To clarify, "sufficiently massive damage" will prevent the creature from continuing to function after death. What is sufficient will depend upon the SFX of the attack and how much damage is actually done.

Re: Flying Dodge

And if the move ends' date=' say, 10" behind cover?[/quote']

 

Then that's officially where you calculate the range modifier from' date=' but without giving the benefit of the cover. A compromise between "realism" and simplifying / balancing play. As GMs we tweak as we like, but that's the default.[/quote']

 

It would seem Flying Dodge can protect you from an attack should you completely move out of range of that attack, but things like dodging behind cover won't matter at all.

 

This is worse than a logic problem; this is a paradox. Image you have Teleport and you Flying Dodge into a sealed bank vault. There is absolutely no possibility of an attack penetrating that vault and striking you, and there is no intervening space for you to be in "on the way" to that destination. The only possibilities are that you get hit before you have a chance to teleport, or that you don't get hit. But for some reason Flying Dodge makes it possible for you to escape to the safety of the vault and get hit anyway.

 

I think ending the movement with Flying Dodge behind full cover should not count as an absolute defense, but the attack must penetrate whatever cover before damage is dealt should it hit. So in the example above, the attacker would still get his attack (assuming the inside of the vault was still in range of his attack), and would roll without any kind of OCV penalty for the cover being there, but should he hit, his attack must exceed the BODY/DEF of the vault wall before it damages the target.

 

Similarly, should the destination be behind a flimsy paper wall, the attack will just blast right through and hit the target.

Re: Flying Dodge

Has anyone found the following two quotes from the Combat Handbook to be contradictory?

Yes, I find those contradictory. Either you resolve the attack before Flying Dodge's move, or you resolve it after, and whichever one you do you do consistently. There is no "maybe" involved and there is (or should be) nothing special that differentiates Ranged and Melee attacks.

Re: Flying Dodge

Dive for Cover :

[snip]

 

vs.

 

Flying Dodge :

[snip]

This is my favorite argument against Flying Dodge. Based on this argument, ALL Martial Arts maneuvers must be baned as they are ALL too powerful.

Consider Offensive Strike vs Haymaker. Instead of a crippling -5 DCV and being forced to wait until the end of the nest Segment, it goes off immediately and even provides you with a DCV bonus (and an often negligible OCV penalty). Why so much hate over Flying Dodge when there are so many other Martial Maneuvers "guilty" of being "too powerful"?

P.S.: I'm not saying Outsider hates Flying Dodge, just using his post for context.

Re: Flying Dodge

I just don't understand this position. You can still use up to a Full Move with it when you're not Aborting.

 

I don't think there's anything unreasonable about defining the FMove element to mean, "FMove allows a maneuver to be used along with up to a Full Move, at any time when Movement is otherwise allowed." If you look at it that way, then it's obvious why Aborting to a Flying Dodge would give you only the DCV modifiers: because movement isn't otherwise allowed when you Abort.

Well, to me, the entire purpose of Flying Dodge is to allow you to abort to movement. The DCV bonus is just icing on the cake. If you aren't allowed to move during an abort, it's an utter waste of points.

Re: Twas The Night Before Christmas - Champions Style!

That was awesome! Repped!

You realize of course I must now start my own trend of running a Christmas episode featuring Foxbat... my players should be very afraid. Mwuhahahaha!!!

Re: Susceptibility to Persuasion

I personally don't like the idea of taking any sort of Disad that effectively says "treat me like an NPC". If it's a player character, you get all that it comes with, especially the ability to say how your character reacts to stuff, and not the least of which the responsibility of role-playing proper reactions.

That being said, all the normal Psych Limits are more than enough to cover those gaps where one PC may be more susceptible to the wiles of an NPC than another. The villain doesn't need to make a Persuasion roll to convince the hero to abandon his weapon, he just needs to convince an Honorable one to "fight fair". A beautiful woman doesn't need to make a Seduction roll to distract a hero, merely to approach the one who's a Sucker For a Pretty Face. The players of these characters know what they're doing (one should hope), so I let them do it.

Re: Prolly not a new Q:

The best way I've dealt with issues such as this myself is to manage the expected point values (or point caps) of the campaign.

Start with the most lowest powered weapon/attack you feel should have some kind of affect on the "average" PC. Figure out how much defenses would effectively make a target immune to it, then rule the "average" hero must have less than that. Basically, if that value turns out to be 12 rPD and 18 total PD, most of the PCs should have less than that, while it will be okay for some to have more.

Once you have this baseline, figure out how powerful an attack must be to be "too much" for targets with the above figured defenses and rule the max values to be less than that amount. All that is left is to balance all the NPCs to function appropriately under how you've geared the PCs.

And if all else fails, buy lots of NNDs, AVLDs, Entangles, etc.

Re: Not Dead Yet

Just a suggestion,

 

KA.

Excellent suggestion. I might make it work a bit more than 0 points though. It is far more limiting to die 2 Phases after reaching 0 BODY or less than it is to have the opportunity to not die at all.

Re: Not Dead Yet

Sounds like several automaton powers - takes no stun (continues until destroyed), does not bleed.

 

Since the players don't know when it's dead, because it just keeps on going, they'll still be dishing out damage, so this doesn't make a whole lot of game sense. Usually when something reaches zero body, or an automaton reaching its destroyed state, it is not in any sort of physical condition to continue fighting.

Perhaps giving it a clearly obvious 'self destruct' state when it reaches that point, where it continues to function (poorly, with considerable negatives to its abilities) but the players realize it's time to get away from the thing because it's effectively 'dead' having gone into negative body (where zero Body = Dead, not just bleeding). After two phazes it 'falls apart' (self destructs), perhaps catastrophically.

Ah, yes. To clarify, it is obvious the thing is dead and should not still be active. The ultimate idea is to freak the players out with the first few of them they fight, then their odd behavior of still moving for a few seconds after death is just a peculiar quirk they need to take into account when fighting. Ultimately it doesn't become any less effective when it dies, but it may become more effective (haven't decided if it has a build in fear of death/destruction like a truly living thing that will go away after it dies, making it more dangerous).

Re: Flying Dodge

Personaly I do not allow characters to abort to FMove' date=' you cna still abort to a manuever that includes FMove, but cannot use that element in a abort action (In otherwords abord to Flying dodge gets you a +4 DCV, no movement, normaly you get movement and +4 DCV if you do it as your action)[/quote']

 

For me, this cripples Flying Dodge. Granted, I don't think you should get a full move out of it, but you should a 1/2 move.

Re: Help needed for weapon build

How about building a normal knife, then building +X STR, Only With Knife that works with an END Reserve? Basically all the "powered" part does is provide additional cutting power, effectively replacing the user's STR with it's own. Makes for a simpler build at any rate.

Powered Knife: HKA 1d6 (usual weapon Limitations) plus STR +15, Only To Add Damage To HKA (-1 1/2), OAF (-1), plus END Reserve XX END XX REC OAF (-1), (Limitations to flavor). Total Cost: Whatever it ends up to be.

Simply add +5 STR and a +1 pip HKA to the "powered" part of the build if you want to total damage to actually equal 2 1/2 d6.

Re: Flying Dodge

Clarification; I'm under the impression DR is saying its binary; you either go on your turn' date=' move and get +4 DCV, or Abort and ONLY get +4 DCV. I may have misunderstood.[/quote']

 

 

To clarify:

 

When aborting to a Flying Dodge: You get +4 DCV, may move up to half your available full move, and move before the attack is resolved (thus potentially negating the attack entirely by moving out of range of the attack). Think Nightcrawler suddenly bamphing away to avoid getting hit.

 

If you should simply perform a Flying Dodge as your actions, you may do so as a Full Phase action, get a +4 DCV and move up to your full move. This is like performing "evasive maneuvers" when in a combat situation. You really do nothing but move, but as a result, you are more difficult to hit. Think Spiderman backflipping all over the place.

I'm normally good at this, but maybe I'm just out of practice or this really is that complicated.

I want to create a monster type villain/creature thing that doesn't die immediately after killing it. Basically, after delivering whatever will be the killing blow, it will continue to function for 2 additional phases, then collapse dead. During this time, it cannot be healed, repaired or otherwise saved from death, as it's already dead, it just still moving for a bit. Also, this creature will take no STUN, but that part I've got covered .

I'm thinking things like extra BODY with a Trigger and a short Continuing Charge but I'm not sure if those mechanics will do what I want.

Any other ideas?

Re: Help needed for weapon build

You could also make those last two Limitations as a Variable Limitation. You have either one or the other.

The part that bugs me though, how can you have a Limitation that it doesn't work if you don't have END to fuel it. It would already not work because there's no END... Unless I'm missing something.

Re: Flying Dodge

Yes.

 

Darren has voiced the opinion that you could even abort to throw a force wall between an attacker and his target, on the basis that it's a defensive action.

Certainly if that target is you. It requires Ref permission if the target is someone else' date=' as by default you are only allowed to protect yourself with an Abort.[/quote']

 

I thought you could officially Abort to a Dive for Cover to interpose yourself between an attacker and his target?

 

As others have said, with GM permission. Of course, the DfC mechanic is exactly what I'd use to handle aborting to placing a FW between an attacker and a 3rd party target.

Re: Flying Dodge

Still catching up with all the posts, please forgive.

You're mistaken. Per the rules FAQ' date=' you still get a Full Move worth of Movement with a Flying Dodge, even if you Abort to it.[/quote']

 

I see...

 

Look at it like this, DR:

 

Normally, you abort to [Defensive Action]. As part of your Abort, you've taken up your entire next Phase (you abort on 6 to 8, frex). Instead of now just having "+3 DCV" (everyman Dodge) or "+5 DCV" (martial dodge) as part of the abort, you also get the movement you would have gotten in that phase. You've still aborted, you still don't get to go on 8 (you must wait until 12), but part of the maneuver is to give you the movement you would have otherwise lost.

 

Make more sense that way?

 

No, it does not make more sense... I like Flying Dodge. I really like Flying Dodge, and this is speaking from the point of view of a game master, not a player. I've always allowed since its conception in 4th edition and I've never had an issue with it. However, I've never allowed an abort to a full move. I've never even considered it even remotely balanced. Flying Dodge is a 1/2 phase action and the most you can get from a half phase action you abort to is a 1/2 phase. At least in my book. Sure, it uses up your entire next phase, but so does any other abort action, even ones to a 0 phase action (such as to turn on a FF).

 

I'll just chalk this one up to another "Steve Wrong". I think I'm up to 5 now.

Re: Flying Dodge

No reason to limit yourself to a 1/2 move.

Unless I'm mistaken, you can only abort a Flying Dodge to a half move. You can only perform the full move if you perform a full phase action.

Re: Flying Dodge

"I'll abort to Flying Dodge and make my 25" half move to there" seems rife with potential for abuse.

So does anyone with a 25" half move. That's a 50" full move (a 100 active point power for Running, Teleport and Flight) and who knows how much NCM the character has...

Re: Flying Dodge

Characters with high Movement values (and especially if they also have a high SPD) can remain nearly unreachable in combat against foes who lack ranged attacks. They can attack and retreat with near-impunity.

Technically, so can any character with a Ranged attack, and chances are they spent about as much on their EB (or whatever) and the martial artist did on Passing Strike and Running (or whatever).

Re: Giant Brick Tricks

Transform: Large Masonry into Large Building.

And don't forget Transform: Large Building into Large Rubble.