i3ullseye

Re: Fixin' what's broken - switching from d20 to HERO

I appreicate classes, and hate levels. thats where the problem lies, not within the class structure. Classes can be easily modified. You can add or remove and not worry too much.

The problem is the assumption that not everyone of a given class gets all their abilities right away, and that as levels are gained, they will progress in mroe or less the same way along that path. It is very arbitrary and false. In a class syustem, a Wizard has little chance of also meing a talented martial artist until you multi-class him. But who is to say his father did not teach him martial arts since he was a child?

In a point based system we avoid all this. We can indeed have a spell caster with a strong hand to hand background. But then we run into the other side of the coin. Taking 5 good combat maneuvers, and a magic pool lone, the character is then seen as done.

What about those knowledge skills that logically woudl go along with such training? What about that Breakfall or weapon element that is normally part and parcel with that training? What about that magic skill to utilize that spell pool? What about any disadvantages for the choice of art or magic?

Sure, those of us who have been at this for years LIKE to balance our characters and make them as detailed as possible. We like balancing those disads ans support skills to make a living and breathing character. But even with all this, does it fit in with the campaign world? Is it possible for soemone to learn this specific martial art form their father? What are the professional skill requirements or social limitations of this chosen school of magic?

The packages are a great tool to cover this, and I think the msot brilliant way a system can handle all these questiosn and still remain both flexible and balanced. I nearly wept the first time I read Fantasy hero... the idea of a racial package and it's cultural package being seperate was a true stroke of genius. Now you CAN have that Human who was raised by elves, and everything makes perfect sense.

But by adhering to these packages, all those who come form the land of elves will harbor enmity toward the enemies of their race, which is as it should be. Without that package in place, you have to work extra hard to make sure that every character fits in with the campaign paradigm... and by the time you do this you are still enforcing classes/packages anyway.

But all this makes sense. It is the level based component that is really the problem. Some people might just step into their warrior role, and through natural talent and prowess, why wouldn;t they be able to stand next to someone who has done this 20 years Sometimes they might be considerably better than the aged veteran. Level based systems make this all but impossible, but HERO makes it work well.

Now that aged old coot coudl have a vast array of tactics and support skills that the young upstart has yet to learn, even if his sword arm is stronger and faster. And they are both human, and will survive roughly the same amount of actual physical damage... last I heard, that really shouldn't increase tenfold with age.

Re: Can this Detect even work?

Mechanically it isn't illegal. Just more expensive than a basic detect.

Detect: Temporal Anomolies (teleports)- 5 pts.. Sense +2 pts... Transdimensional (any dimension including future and past).. +1

Total cost... 14 points.

Re: Mythos of the Werewolf

I used to love running Chill.

Some notes on all this. Vampires, by description, aren't normally destroyed by sunlight in original legend, just weakend. Dracula comes out during the day in Stokers novel even.

I like the idea of the Moon forcing a werewolf into his beast form, but that not being the only time it can be assumed. Of course, this should be the mark of a very old, and very strong willed lycanthrope. In my games I have always assumed werewolves to have regeneration at all times. It is accelerated while in beast form, but they always heal faster than normal.

Further, they are damaged as normal while in human form, but are more likely to heal it back. They will slip into a coma rather than die when possible, but can certainly die. They can even die while in beast form from massive damage. Often I base them on good stats to start, then add 75% rPD and 50% rED Damage Reduction, neither applies to Silver.

I would avoid the holy relic damage myself, but thats just my call.

If you use the Loup Garou, who change by putting on a wolf skin, then salt can also kill them. If you put salt on the inside of their wolf skin, when they strip down and put it on to change, the salt is then put inside their flesh and the amount of pain is said to kill them outright.

I really like the take on hunger, and eating a large meal ahead of time to try to curb the lust to kill. Certainly a great berserk disad in that one.

But as for spreading the disease, I woudl treat it as a bloodborne pathogen and an STD combined. Basically picture AIDs. Antyhing that is an exchange of bodily fluids has a chance to transmit the disease, but not every contact is a gurantee of transfer. I would say it might be a Con roll to resist it, at a -1 to the roll for every BODY of damage taken. The worse the attack the more likely the infection, but a grazing blow would not likely cost most to change unless they were unlucky.

Re: Endurance question.

The basic setup I have used since 4th is 1/10 AP, with the exception of basic strength. Normal strength, and thus physical hand to hand and melee weapons, is still 1/5. This really shows the difference between exerting raw force, and using powers.

Another effect of this, it works well in heroic level campaigns with magic or martial arts powers.

Consider this, those characters that will use the 1/5 on their strength most of the time will also be those characters with higher physical stats, and thus higher endurance. Those that rely on powers (or magic or psionics or whatever) tend to be build with less physical attributes, and less resultant Endurance. This tends to balance it out and you will find both will get tired at roughly the same time.

If anything the physical combat monsters actually outlast the others since their base recovery is also higher. So i use the heroic level rule for even my super level campaigns.

Re: Killing Damage and Defenses

I use the roll, or the multiplier form the hit locaton charts depending on the situation.

According to the rules, if you have ANY resistant defenses, then you can apply ALL your normal defenses tot he stun. This should also apply to damage reductuction (and in my games certainly does). So bricks can be truly hard to bring down if built well.

One good build is to take a decent base PD. To this, either add a resistant defense or make half of this resistant. then add normal damage reduction, with the limitation Stun only to it at 75%.

The end result is someone who has decent resistant defense, but when they get hurt, it hurts them. But the stun never overwhelms them. Example numbers for a typical 250 pt character might be this.

Base Pd is 15

Armor bought to 10 rPD

Damage Reduction 75% PD, stun only

So the first 25 pts of normal stun and normal body is stopped, pretty damn tough. And he feels only 25% of the stun that makes it through.

The first 15 body of killing damage is blocked, but he feels everything beyond that. This puts him right in range to stop 2 1/2d6 of killing, but major guns like 3d6ka will be able to hurt him.

But even with a killing attack, he stops the first 25 stun, and only feels 25% of the remaining stun. this is actually very cost effective for a physical combat character, and if you want it to be energy defenses also, you will see the major focus of the character become these defenses, which will prevent them form being too powerful overall in other aspects of the game.

Re: Something I just noticed and dislike about multipowers

I did also early on. But as time went on, certain characters (normally my villains) were far more effective than their points woudl dictate. It cause a severe arms race of attacks and defenses.

Really, limiting the active points brings everything nicely in line, and allows defenses to be reasonable without being overly expensive for the players. If they are built with defenses to block 80% of the max normal basic attacks, then any special attacks will tend to be less lethal to them, whcih falls in line nicely. If those special attacks are using real points only, armor piercing and penetrating attacks, not to mention the NNDs, will obliterate even the most solid of bricks.

The lower your point scale, the less noticable though. And I run a lot of street level games, so it was even less apparent at first. Of course, if your games allow real world equipment like guns to be bought with money, then all this flied out the window anyway. The more realistic the campaign, the less this matters as you can always buy the bigger gun.

Re: Newbie: Building a Power

NND Killing exists, but only in very rare (and VERY lethal) forms... like hard radiation and such. Normally it is only used for plot devices and not character (or villain) owned powers.

Thats what that little stop sign is there for!

Ok, thanks to everyone who hlped me settle on my final rules for Sanity. again, the game I will be using these in will be at the end of WWI, and leading into WWII era, and will be Cthulhu based. Then wacky Nazis were after soem pretty funky occult stuff... and soemone has to stop them from succeeding. Panzers are easier to fight than Shuggoths any day.

So here are the basic rules I will use..... and I would love more feedback.

Going Mad

HERO system sanity for Cthulhu campaigns.

The idea behind these rules is to be as invisible to the players as possible, and as easy as possible for the GM to handle as can be. To this end, they are very vague in actual rules, but can easily be adapted to the specific character or situation as the need arises.

The basic concept is that when one comes into contact with the unknown, they realize WHY it is never meant to be known. Each brush with chaos leaves a mark on the viewer, and the more the understand the true nature of what is out there, waiting eons to swoop in and obliterate us like the insignificant beings we are to them, the weight of this realization becomes too much to bear.

The human mind has a defense mechanism, a barrier against this sort of collapse, and that defense is denial. Even the most direct evidence can be explained away by the human mind… as a gas pocket, or chain lighting, or just another species of squid that got too mangled in a fisherman’s net to identify. But some know otherwise, they know the truth. And the darker that truth, the darker the mark left on their psyche.

The Slow Transformation

And that’s exactly what this madness is, a slow transformation. In game rules it is a 1 pip Major Transform with gradual time that affects EGO instead of BODY. Easy enough, and we don’t need to go into the details of how it is built even, because at its root it is really a plot device. There are 2 questions we need to answer however.

First question is what do we roll? The simple answer is an EGO roll, but that just scratches the surface of the issue. This EGO roll will be modified by a few factors, and these modifications are what really adapts this mechanic to each and every encounter. The 3 things that impact this role are the basic awareness of the chaos on the part of the observer, the general aura of the event or item witnessed, and the current sanity state of the observer.

Understanding Evil

Each and every detail that a character knows about evil will bring him closer to understanding it. By that same token, it will also bring him more madness for this knowledge. To this end, the EGO roll will be penalized based on a few things. Every 5 points of INT above 10 will give a -1 penalty to these EGO rolls… so a 15 INT is a -1 penalty, and the human maximum of 20 is a -2 penalty. These penalties do NOT round up, so a 14 INT is still no penalty on the roll.

For each campaign you will need to define a set of key skills that add to this penalty also. Often they will be knowledge skills, like Cthulhu lore, or perhaps AK and PS skills regarding the occult. The skills that trigger this may change with the campaign and the character also. For example, a scientist may know physics, and that is of no detriment to him. But the day he experiments and realizes that String Theory allows dimensional openings to the great old ones… and that these forms exist in every streetlight in his neighborhood… NOW that physics skill counts against him. For every 3 skills known apply a -1 to Sanity EGO rolls.

Looking Into Darkness

When witnessing evil, a good rule of thump is to make the roll at a -1 penalty for each 50 active points of the evil, and this one IS rounded up. So as you create your creatures, just note that a 233 pt Yuggoth is a -5 roll creature. Each roll is made during the first encounter with each creature or item, or each very traumatic reappearance, but the characters need not roll continually for the same set of circumstances.

In your campaign you may also decide that certain powers or attributes lead to some creatures being more horrific than others. You should certainly add circumstantial modifiers as well. Seeing a cultist with gills sedated on a medical table is one thing, but seeing them in a back alley eating an infant is another matter entirely, and you should adjust accordingly. Normally this will lead to a penalty anywhere from 0 to -3.

Also, some creatures may be more directly damaging to the viewer, and in this case you may assign more than the normal 1 pip of insanity to the character. I would also keep this reasonable, with the vast majority adding 1 pip, and only a great old one themselves adding a full 3 in one viewing.

Fractured Egos

Each failure of the EGO roll will add 1 pip to the insanity of that character. On the surface, this doesn’t impact them that much, but it does accumulate. Your campaign may have ways to clear this insanity, but it should be very hard to do. Gaining it however will be relatively common for your players if you are keeping them ‘occupied’. And as it builds, it makes it harder to resist future terrors.

As this insanity builds, the character gets a -1 to his EGO roll for each 5 points accumulated. This DOES round up, and it does so immediately. So from 1 to 5 Insanity causes a -1 to all EGO rolls to resist future insanity. Once they hit 6 points, now their rolls are at a -2. This will tend to cause a slippery slope effect for those with stronger wills. The higher your EGO, the longer you can resist insanity. But as those points accumulate, the harder each roll becomes.

Cause and Effect

So what happens next? What does this build up of insanity do? After the EGO has been doubled by points, they all go away. Seems easy enough, but they are replaced by giving the character a permanent 5 pt disadvantage, often Psychological but sometimes Physical. Depending on the circumstances, you may also want to offset this with about 3 points of an advantage somewhere, but this needs to fit the theme and the situation.

As an example, say an investigator finally goes mad while trying to find a resolution to a massive rat infestation. With homeless and children’s remains found, and rats by the thousands, he finally comes face to face with a large rat like humanoid eating an old man. His mind snaps with what he sees, and he goes over that final edge.

As he hits double his EGO, you then wipe his insanity points out completely, and start all over. But now he has a 5 pt fear of rats. They haunt him in his dreams, and he hears their scratching in the walls even when no one else hears a thing. As a bonus, he has a +1 to all hearing perception rolls now, but he is always on edge listening for the slightest squeak or scratch, and never knowing when he may awake to find himself to be the next meal.

Lastly, once someone has gained this first psychosis, they also permanently have a -2 on all future Ego rolls against insanity.

Gradual Decay

Insanity takes place in 3 major stages. What we have described is the first stage, but each following stage is identical. The only difference is the ‘reward’. Once a character has gone through this process a second time, again you wipe out their insanity, but now they gain a 10 pt disadvantage. If you DO give a balancing reward however, it is still best to keep it around 3 point’s worth.

Now that they are at the 2nd stage of this insanity they get a -3 on all future rolls to resist insanity. If they go through this entire process again, they gain a 20 pt disadvantage, and will be at -4 for every sanity check thereafter.

They really shouldn’t make it much farther than this. By this time if they aren’t Byahkee food, they should be committed.

Documenting the Dementia

One final note, the players should NEVER make their own rolls for this. On a separate sheet, write down a few key things about each character. Write their EGO roll down, and write down their EGO itself. Then calculate the current penalty to their roll and write that down also. Then track their insanity points on this same sheet.

Yes, I suppose in theory there are things that could add a bonus when making these sanity checks, thought for the life of me I can thing of none! But if you are kind hearted, and generous and benevolent (also WEAK!) you MAY want to also list anything your players characters have that help them resist this. I assume it will take virtually no space however.

You track it, you make their rolls, you know whether they gain that point or not. The only time they will know that it has overcome them is when you tell them what disad to write on their sheet with the label Class I Insanity.

Like the idea of bonuses to this roll, I assume in some fairy tale lands there might be ways to reduce these insanity points. If this is the case in your overly sensitive and PC world, then you will want to keep the progress on that side of the equation secret also. Really, the impending doom of the entire campaign will benefit by you being incredibly stringent about the mystery surrounding the sanity scores.

Re: Top Ten All-Time 'Favorite' Superhero RPG Books Ever

Hmm.... tough one......

1) Champions 4th ed (BBB)

That just opened up so much. Being able to have that book, and pick up a few copies of the 4th edition core rule book for players, has a real nostalgia for me. It really opened up more roleplaying for me and my gorups than any other book.

2) Ninja Hero

Aaron Allston has done some of the finest work in the industry, and him working his magic with the HERO system was great. This empowered a lot of good games also.

3) MURPG

The Marvel Univers Role Playing Game. This is the new diceless system, and it has soo much right with it. Sad that a petty squabble and a new line editor killed a game that was actually very successful in the industry.

4) MSHRP-Advanced

the second boxed set for the Marvel Superheroes RPG, with the old FASERIP system. Man, you just can't beat that system for speed and simplicity. And how cool was it to play with official versions of the Marvel characters we all loved?

5) Dark Champions & An Eye for an Eye (4th edition)

Mr. Long sir. Who would have ever thought that an expensive and hard earned law degree woudl benefit the gaming world so much? As a lover of street level games, these were mind blowingly good. Hard to say which i loved more as I picked both up at the same time, and my gritty games were never the same again.

6) Sidekick

Yes, that Sidekick. I really like simplifying things. I really like having extra core rule books to hand out to players during a session. I LOVE that these were costed just right. I bought 2 so I have rules books for others during our games. It fits much easier into a backpack and I will often grab it to work out an NPC instead of the toolbox.

7) Mutants & Masterminds

It has it's problems. It doesn't handle all levels of play equally well, and it is a very binary system... you either hit and success greatly, or miss and fail miserably. But it is a fresh take on D20, and one of the nicest print layouts I have seen in a book. Worth every penny.

8) Handbook to the Marvel universe

An encylopedia of heroes and villains? Detailed backgrounds and stats on all of the marvel universe? I had this thing (4 releases, and 2 annual updates) loaded into 2 huge D ring binders. As a gamer, and a comic lover, this was a bible to us.

9) Champions I, II and III

Pure nostalgia again. We played these releases so much it wasn't funny. Well, Foxbat WAS funny, and he really made these an enjoyable read. We have come a long way in our world of balance and fairness from the days when sidebars taught you the rule of 3 and 8. hehe....

10) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Yup, good old simplified Palladium. More streamlined that Heroes Unlimited, much more streamlined than Rifts, this ganme was wodnerful when it hit. Not only were the comics hot at the time, but this game held to the originally gritty feel, not the candy the kids are fed today. The turtles used to be bad assed I tell ya!

Re: Worldbuilding exercise

"BRAEDRALAG AF HIN SANLEIKUR"

Brotherhood of the Truth

Just a name idea.

Re: Psionic/Mental Combat

Well, there are many times (and it has been well documented) where you might sleep for only an hour... or less... but when you awaken you vividly remember a dream that seemed to last hours. I have personally nodded off for less than 20 minutes on a road trip, only to recall a complete story played out in my head that lasted well more than 2 hours worth of information. Your perception of time is certainly differrent once uninhibited by physical reality.

No real way to document this other than anecdotal testimony however. And who is to say that you aren't creating a burst of memory without actually having the initial expericne as it were?

Odd thing this mind of ours.

Re: All Flesh Must Be Eaten

I have a tackle box with all my Zombies!!! stuff i it. Thats 200 zombies (plus 6 glow in the dark ones) and neat map tiles to build scenarios with. I have been musing combining the two. Play with the Zombies minis, and the map tiles... but let the characters use actual HERO rules on thsoe combats as they move form spot to spot in the city. I might even work up some conversions for the deck of cards in Zombies!!! to give HERO rules bonuses and penalties.

Hmmm..... soo much to do, so little time.

Re: Fixin' what's broken - switching from d20 to HERO

No, actually classes aren't a totally bad idea.

First, it is where almost all gaming started. Each had class structures. Very few mainstream games broke form this idea for a long time. It is used in computer games also. Why? It is the structure. It cuts down on the work of creation.

And one beautiful thing it does is prevent a character form gimping themselves. We have all seen it... new player to the HERO system, a pool of points, a glint in their eye, and an idea. It is beautiful to see. But then they go and dump alm ost all their points on that super cool power they want, and guess what? Every other encounter obliterates them.

Experience has taught the rest of us to be wiser, but without knowing the rules well, or how they interact on a regular basis, we are flying blind. Leaving your Dex and Int and Ego at 10 because you are just super strong... well, you are in for a rough ride.

Classes prevent people form breaking themselves at creation, and that in and of itself goes a long way toward making those games enjoyable and easy to learn. It is not what i prefer mind you, nor any of us here i would assume. But it is an easy entry into the world of gaming, and a tool to keep games much simpler on the character creation side.

It is easier to balance a session against known classes with known abilities. Factoring in HERO characters, and tailoring things to them, is MUCH harder I think, but also much more rewarding. But classes serve a real constructive purpose here.

In computer gaming it reduces the massive amount of code neccessary for everyone to have access to anything. It makes sure that group dynamics can be enforced in both computer AND table top gaming. If that warrior can also pick a lock and read scrolls... why does he need the rogue or wizard again?

Now in HERO we have our ways of dealing with these issues. I prevent skill crossover form happening too rampantly in my games, and sometimes I tell players they have a certain amount of their points for Stats, another amount for Skills, etc... and have them try to build within a set balanced structure when they are starting out.

But this is all stuff we do because we DON'T have classes. In a class based system most of this is not neccessary.

Re: Psionic/Mental Combat

Much in the same way, take one of the ranged martial arts and just rename each approapriate attack and call it good. Doing a stat equivalency works well for this. Ego becomes Strength and Con... Int becomes Dex for mental combat... etc....

One thing I have always struggled with here though. This combat takes place at the speed of thought. It shoudl not take place during the normal phase structure to my thinking, and your intelligence shoudl replace Dex for this calculation, not your actual Dex. If you have lighting calculator, thats like buying +1 Speed mentally.

We can do all this easily enough. When you go into mental combat, the player involved gets this rich battle with great detail. After a few turns maybe, it ends... and then he realizes this has only lasted but 2 seconds of real world time. this is a great story telling method to keep combat from impacting timelines of the game world as a whole.

But what about the players not involved in the combat? Do you put their game on hold for this? The first few times they will enjoy watching this play out... then it will get old real fast.

So while it can add a lot to mental combat, it is an all group thing, or a single person thing... and no in-between. And I can;t think of a good way to pull this off enough to justify one character becoming the sole focus of a game for even 20 minutes to the exclusion of all others.

Just a rambling idea....

Re: Psionic/Mental Combat

Ok, the Astral Forms is a wonderful idea. A whole campaign could be based around just this mechanic. It coudl even be modern day, but people call upon their totem animal, or spiritual conscruct to battle.

Nothing like sitting in front of your PC at work, whole drifting mentally to Antarctica in giant leapord form to battle the evil cult summoning an ice beast.

Re: Morwold: So how does a Fantasy World Come to Be?

Think ecology. The Scorpions would likely eat the ants, as woudl the wasps. So if they exist, they shoudl WAY outnumber the other two, and probably fear them.

I think it is reasonable to assume a unique race to inhabit any vast area not already dominated by humans. Normally this means mountain tops, and deep deep forests, the desert and even caverns or sewers.

Decide which humanoids you have, and where they rule. This often means the Dwarf/Elf/Human/Gnome/Etc... and possibly include the goblinoids ... and divvy up the world. This is a LOT. This becomes cliche or staple only because it is most logical.

So anyr ace that woudl exist outside fo this has to be clearly designed to fit in a unique ecological niche. Rat men in the sewers is a great one. Some races can exists by looking human, or humanoid... like the Ogres in Krynn. Having multipel races can be fun... but it needs to be well planned in order to not feel out of place I think.

This also ties into the religion. Religion can unite people of differrent races... but it often segregates them. Further, some dark religion make create an underling race. But how unique would it be to make the glorious elves, with healing magic and beauty and grace, a clearly good aligned race... what if their gods created Gnomes as servants for them? Property to be traded and bought and sold? Maybe they are winged so they can fetch things quickly for their masters in various places in the trees?

Sure, to see one treated as property. To see one punished for a minor infraction. To see one sold to another. All of this woudl outrage most 'good' races. But if their gods have created this race for JUSt that purpose, and they accept that role willingly, how can an outsider call it evil?

And yes, I can be a very cruel bastard when I run my games. If your interested I will tell you the tale of my jungle goblins and the prophecy!

Re: Help Me Populate A Creepy Hotel

Or maybe I am the husky lady twin? My wife might be shocked by that admission.

More.....

The Exterminator

Slighty odd fidgety guy, with thick glasses. He seems to be in the hotel 2 or 3 times a day. Always with a tank of checmicals, spritzing and spraying corners. Thing is, there never seems to be any sign of rats or roaches. No evidence of anything at all. And the guy shows up in peoples rooms form time to time.

What is he spraying?

Re: Help Me Populate A Creepy Hotel

Where is the family?

This guy is always seen in the lobby, checking for messages for him or his faimly. he refers to his wife and kids, but they are never seen. Often, at night, he can be seen carrying small trashbags, very saggy, perhaps even soggy, down to the hotels incinerator. Whatever he is throwing out, little bits at a time, he is very gaurded about.

And no one ever actually sees his family.

Where is the parent?

The stock creepy or annoying little kid. About age 7 seems just about right. This can be a sad child, or a pest. But always popping up and beying a pain or hinderance when least wanted.

You never see this child with a parent. The hotel staff might even refer to the kid in strange ways, or not even acknowledge the kid is there many times. Evidence of thier coming and going should be apparent, but maybe they are never seen by any staff or other hotel patrons. And they will always find a way to avoid showing someone which room they are in, or even giving their parents name(s).

This gets real annoying when they are playing up and dawn the hall on school days when they should be in class.

The new bellhop

Every single day, maybe even every single encounter can be a new bellhop or doorman. It might not seem wierd at first, but after weeks go by and the same BH or DM is NEVER seen again, things can start to feel creepy.

The lost pet

A dog or cat, on a leash, gently sleeping on a hallway chair. Maybe it comes to be pet from time to time. Maybe it sometimes growls or hisses. But the pets owner is never seen.

My brothers sister

You might see a fairly attractive woman with a deep and alluring voice in the hotel bar, and she talks of being there to meet her brother. Or you might see a young and handsome man in the lobby reading the latest business paper, who says he is there to see his sister. The near identical look to their features paints them as twins.... or are they?

YOu never see both together, and maybe one or two masculine features pop up on the female. Maybe a hint of female perfume, or another tell tale sign. But if you see the female in the bar, you can actually walk into the lobby and there is the male..... but walking back to the bar the female is nowhere to be seen.

Re: Morwold: So how does a Fantasy World Come to Be?

I like the Arcanum idea alot.

So again, this need nto be answered right away, and maybe even never. But in your secret GM file, you know the one with the Cheeto and Mountain Dew stains... you now just need to focus on the ways this resource is tapped.

And a note. If this mystic plane is the source of all magic, arcane and divine alike, that does NOT mean the gods don't exist.

1) The belief in those gods, the collective faith of their worshippers, might be the willful force creating them into real being out of that mystic force. So the collective, while having little or no power in and of themselves, when guided as a group grant the energy to give life to the shared concept. This then becomes the religion being as strong as the cummulative will of its faithful.

2) The gods could be very capable spell casters, perhaps who have ascended to a higher state of being. Maybe they are form that dimension, and only seem as gods on your main world.

3) The gods may indeed be the source of that mystic plane. Maybe the priesthoods actually serve to grant those without the innate ability to wield these magics some chance to harness that power for the betterment of the faithful. This then is the god acting as a guiding hand, and empowering a non-spellcaster ready human with the ability to weave magic.

4) And again, maybe the truth is everyone is a latent psionic, and that is the true source of all this energy.

Fun part is, everyone can think that ALL of these are true, and many of them can be right at the same time. If the collective will is actually creating the god... then that factions gods do exist. If those gods are now enabled to actually empower their priesthood, then that faction truly does have divine intervention.

If those god forms were once mortals, than even the ascended concept is true at the same time as all others. And lastly, if the true source of power is latent psionic force, and even those great ascended spellcasters of old never saw it for what it was... EVERYONE is 100% correct in their assumptions.

It isn't even important if you know all this going in. I would just focus on it one new magic school or church at a time as it enters the game. If you purposely try to add new and unique twists to this as the campaign goes on, this will grow to add so much detail to your world it will help write its own scenarios for you.

Re: Going Crazy!

Ok, without too much detail since at least one of my players reads and posts here...

I am going to go with the slow cummulative transform effect, and the result will vary each time. The transform will be based on EGO. Some creatures or events will generate more than 1 pip of transform, but most things are a base of 1. But there is a catch....

You will use EGO to resist this gain, but it will be blind rolled by me. The reason it is blind is there is a negative penalty applied. this penalty will be based on certain skills, perks, talents or powers. The more of these flagged items you have, the larger your penalty on your EGO roll. The higher your skill ranks or active points on these items, the higher your EGO roll penalty. This means a bit of book-keeping on my part, but the list of items won't be too long and it puts no extra work onto the players.

The cummulative transform to the EGO will also act as a negative modifer to this EGO roll, but I want to play with it or a bit and see how much of a negative I want it to cause. As you slip away, you start slipping faster and faster.

But since i don't want an over-night snap, I am going to make it a multi tiered drop. After the transform has doubled the EGo once, the player permanently gains a 5 pt disad... and a permanent reduction to furute EGO rolls of some as yet determined mystery amount. Second time through it is a 10 pt disad, and yet another EGO roll penalty against chaos. third time through is a 15 pt disad, and unless things are really weird for the character, this should just about have them committed.

Now even with a transform, I am hesitant to arbitrarily assign disads with no real point balancing benefit to the player. I am NOT sayifn i am matching it 1 for 1, but there will likely be a side benefit at each rank. It will be a sort of poetic double edged sword type thing, and will differ from character to character, and situation to situation.

Example.......

Long story arc where the player has to descend into dark crypts on multiple occasions, and each time rats swarmed him and his freinds. They hear a deep sound in the distance that sounds much larger than any normal rat. As this goes by for a few stragiht days, the sound gets louder, and closer, and he is sure he hears it hissing and squeaking out words in some language. As he is the only one who speaks Egyptian in the group, he starts to udnerstand the words directing the rats to feed on the gorup, and infest the food supply.

Since he speaks the lingo, he starts losing it a bit faster than the others. when they finally come face to face with a 15 foot long rat beast, and one of their team is rips to shreds in front of him, he snaps. this is when the EGO roll fails, and the transform has doubled his EGO. From that point forward he gains a phobia of rats... and he is permanently at -1 on all rolls VS chaos.

But since he is so on edge about rats, and heard them in the distance, he becomes hyper vigilant about it. He gains a +1 on all hearing related perception rolls as his paranoia has him always on alert for the crawling in the walls.

The disads are clearly worth more points that the single point of perception bonus, but it thematically ties in and takes the edge off this first neurosis.

Any suggestions other than this? Agian, I don't want to spell out any hard mathematical numbers on this, and a lot fo it I will be winging honestly to fit the situations best. But this is where I think i will go with it.

Re: Campaign idea!

One game I used flashbacks in went well, but i had to tailor the sessions for it. Here is how it normally went.

The players were retracing the steps of a legendary band of adventurers, to obtain an item of power once again needed to save the world. But the item was in pieces, and they needed to find those pieces. I had a sort of mmory storage device that hey could peer into, and it was said to give them glimpses into their future by revealing a key past. IE... plot device for seeing the flashbacks as a group.

Now when they found a key device, they often didn't know where the second part might be, or how to use it. So I woudl hand out the character sheets for the earlier gorup, and the entire game would shift for a time... now they were plaing these legendary heroes.

I set up scenarios where this device first becomes seperated in the past, or stolen, and playing throguh that even gave them the clues they needed to follow up on it in the present. Sometimes the villain of the past woudl utter the key words needed to use an item in the present. Soemtimes, the way they played out in the past could change dramatically what they needed to do in the present, and that was something i had to plan for by having 2 or 3 very clear options in case thigns didn't go as planned.

This same group later had to travel to alternate dimensions for this quest, and I had some real fun with that. I actually had them trade character sheets, and play as each other. they got more XP for really playing the other person well. I even had them swap characters to replay the past once,... an exact session we had a few months before. those who matched it closely were rewarded, but the end result was drastically differrent than the first time around.

Flashbacks can be rough, but if you have a lot of Player and GM trust, they can be some of the most fun you will ever have in a game.

Re: Morwold: So how does a Fantasy World Come to Be?

C) When a Mommy Fantasy World and a Daddy Fantasy World love each other very much......

Seriously though, the best approach is you allow multiple ideas to take hold. having a creation mythose like Krynn does is fine, but boring. Unless you have a rival faction who believes it was done differrently, there is no real conflict between them. And this conflict is often what propels real history.

So the orders of one religion believe the 10:3 theory. The problem is, they have gods actually communicating with them and telling them this is truth! Or do they? First you have to decide how personal the godly interaction is with priests. Sure, they have spells and powers, but can that just be a misinterprations of normal arcane forces? Could they all be latently psionic?

Many worlds use the same gods for every race, but each race elevates their own view in the creation mythos. But if we model it on our real world, you can have a completely seperate pantheon form another region. They can say their gods are true, but their one deceptive demon god is folling all of the others, and they don';t realize it. Sort of the "it is all the devil fooling you" ploy.

If you add this, always make sure to really constrast this. Not to delve too deep, to start any theological debates, but let's look at a real world example. Early Aryan beliefs, and pre Zoroastrian/Parsi beliefs said that when the gods created all, there were beings known as Devas that came to earth to help us... but there were also malicious Asuras who looked down disdainfully form the heavens and held creation in contempt. In modern day Judeo/Christian dogma, the Devils (from the Deva) life in a hell, often thought of underground... while the beautiful Angels (form the Asura) are gods helpers in heaven. The older story is NOT what is common belief today, and the religions are thus at odd but still based on the same basic premise.

Jewish faith tells us there is only god, and Satan is his appointed served to act as an adversary to men. Later Christianity would say that he is in hell, and opposes god directly which the Old Testament clearly does not support.

The Serpent in the garden of eden was merely a snake. No old testament reference says he is anything but. No Judaic source says otherwise. But New Testament adherents have linked him with Satan... and also Lucifer which technically there is even less of a link to in all the the writings of Judeo/Christianity.

So we have a basic framework, but differrent factions favoring differrent sides of it. all of them woudl unify in calling the 'Gnomes' wrong as it were, and woudl believe their origins have the real hint of truth... btu they woudl still disagree at what that truth is.

We even have the Gnostics which believe (and have quite a bit of historical scripture to support) the idea that Lucifer and Christ were one and the same, and he was here to save us form YHWH, the imposter creator god... who did no create all in actuality, but has lied to the people of Abraham and the people of Moses in order to secure their adoration.

This is all from jut real world sources, and I haven't even touched on religion form the various other regions of the globe.

I do this for many fo my games... but it is one of my passions. You have to ask yoruself something... how important is it really? If no one will ever ask abotu the creation mythos, why map it out? If you have no one playing a priest, how often will it come up? I tmight be best to just jot down the 2 or 3 basic ideas you have, and not get into specifics. If they want specifics, make them seek it in game.

This does 2 things nicely. First you never establish a basis of fact. Thats a real problem with pre-completed pantheons. The players know right away fact from fiction... and fact and faith don't really go together. Once you know soemthing to be true, it takes no faith to believe it. what they are told from a wise old mans view point might not match that of the academy professor, and that is all the better when they can not say for sure which one is fact or fiction outside of game knowledge.

The second nice thing this does is buy you time. Time to come up with a world view form a certain perspective to answer these questions. And better still, a month down the road, in another kingdom maybe, all that flies out the window.

At the early points i would instead focus on these few questions.

1) Is there magic?

2) Is there scientific/arcane magic?

3) What is it's real source?

4) Is there divine magic?

5) Does this power come form direct personified gods? Or is this just a misperception of the priests?

6) Is there psionics?

7) Can the 3 types of power impact each other? Or are they differrent SFX?

8) Is one of them the true underlying sourc eof all the magics without people perhaps realizing it?

Answer that and the rest is merely window dressing. And your players will need never know the true answers to these questions.

Re: Not Quite another Killing Attack Thread

You coudl apply the rPD to the body ONLY, and not to the stun. For the stun they would then use normal PD.

But in all reality, the problem isn;t with killing attacks. The problem is with what the character concept is, and how it is modelled. Guns hurt and kill people. even supers, guns and killing attacks are really REALLY bad news.

But if your hero is going to shrug this off, high PD and rPD isn't the way to go, at least not once you go over a certain point. If you spend over 30 points itno a defense, you should start looking at damage reductions.

But those can be extremely powerful. Thats why active point limits, and little stop signs and magnifying glasses, and PD/ED campaign limits all exist. If you can build the guy that can never be really hurt, where is the challenge?

Re: Fixin' what's broken - switching from d20 to HERO

Ok, now suggesting for actually moving from D20 and into HERO.

1st- show the players how much more colorful combat is. Show them how their attack level and magic sword ranking are often negligable, but which martial art maneuver they use can make all the differrence in the world. Let them knwo that catching the opponent off guard, or actually beign faster than your opponent, really matter for a change. Let them know that a single dumb initiative roll wont lead to them being skewered by a lucky critical hit roll.

2nd- let them be far more creative with their characters. Instead of asking which class they want to play, ask them what they want to be. Package professions are great, and certainly have a good place in most fantasy games (same with racial packages), but using those to get to what they want instead of the reverse will open some eyes right away

3rd- show them how NOT using a class system, or levels, can truly allow for a far more enjoyable and creative character.

I ran one campaign for about 2 years, 2 to 3 nights a week (yeah, there was nothing to do where I was astationed) and these are a few thigns that really stood out and people liked.

Apprenticing- All characters started at 50 points, with 25 in disads. A basic 75 point character. But during the first few weeks, i accellerated their XP gain. Each week they earned 10 HP, plus whatever XP they had actually earned during that time. How they could spend it was limited however.

Every point needed to be justified. Working out with weights? You coudl spend it on physical abilities. In the library? You coudl increase or gain knowledge skills. Since this is a magic realm, you could even justify some minor powers, some perks and talents also. During this time I also gauge what they are doing during this time and see if any disadvantages are earned.

And believe me, they are earned. When you make an enemy or a hunted during this formative stage, it holds MUCH more weight than just writing something on a character sheet when you create it.

This gave me another strong control point. I could pick which magics were available. They could learn nothing unless they apprenticed to someone who coudl teach them. Lock picking? Priestly Magic? Arcane Magic? Many things I wanted to keep a clamp on were never an issue.

Further, thought they all fell under 2 strong characters (I actually had them act as henchment to these 2 legendary heroes for about 2 months) they sought out desired skills on their own form various sources. If one player finds his admittance into the thieves guild, you are set. Teh other characters might not have the same access. Now you don;t have a game where everybody can pick a lock. You get skill divrsification from the players just by nature of limiting the early availability.

During this early period they gain 25 HP (plus experience) and 50 Disads. This brought them right up to 150 point characters by the end, but when they say theyc an pick a lock, they can tell you the guild member who taught them, and what trials they had to go through to earn that skill. When the local swordsmaster is hunting them, they can tell you WHY and even recall the words of the challenge on that fateful day.

Another big hit was creative magical systems. Their possible schools of study were limited by what was local to them. Fire and Ice were these, and I think 3 others. One favored warriors, and there were NO real churches. That meant i kept healing magics to a minimum from the very start. there was personal healing in the warrior school, but not a lot of ways to heal an ally, and this was central to the early part of the campaign.

Part of that early campaign was seeking out one of the few remaining members of the Church of St Akeem. This was a church who coudl still heal, but was unlike anything the players had seen before. Picture huge barrel chested Sinbad looking brutes with massive Scimitars. Each one was a warrior priest. This magic was based on Presence!

Yes you read that right, Presence!

The skills were mostly combat oriented, or minor food and water creation, but they coudl also heal. Spells were NEVER a simple affair however. Loud chanting, spinning, waving arms whildy. Imagine the most possessed genie of the lamp image you can, and thats a low key priest in this order. They dominated the room wherever they went, and when they did ANYTHING magical, everyone knew it.

Another thing to keep in mind if the pet optiosn in HERO system. Bulding that tiger that follows you, and giving yourselves a mind link makes for a FAR more interesting (and fun) combo than a typical pet in most D20 based system. because here we have rules to customize and also balance that, and you shoudl exploit that to really pull the players into the world you make for them.

Re: Fixin' what's broken - switching from d20 to HERO

I remember one classic discussion in our gaming gorup that this whole thread reminded me of.

There I was, Reginald the Anatomist... from the Necromancer Handbook (2nd Edition AD&D). It was tough to get the GM to allow me to play a necromancer in the first place, but the concept was the classic renaissance surgeon, experimenting in the macabre to understand how the human body works and fix it.

The discussion erupted in our group when I aksed about a cosmetic change to one of my spells. Already i had a negative energy blast that was much like Magic Missle (don't recall its exact name right now) but would actually heal an undead if hit with it, since it was negative energy. I asked if it could look like a small screaming black skull shooting out form my hand... and people went crazy.

The spell clearly said it was a black beam, and most players started thinking I was trying to manipulate the rules. All I wanted was a skull. The way the spell would function would not change, its damage, its effectiveness, its level... everything would be the same. But the basic idea that i wanted it to LOOK personalized was call for cries of heresy.

In the end, I went with the stock black beam. It was better to safe group unity, and apparently save some sanity for the less courageous of that bunch, than to be original and have ANY spell look even slightly unique.

Don't even want to recall how many hours that discussion went on either. Pointless. I had one ally in the discussion, and he played HERO also, so he understood the basic differrences between cosmetic and real changes.

I don't hate AD&D, or D&D. Many fo the things I didn't like from 2nd edition they did fix in 3rd. I actually think D20 is a great idea, and a great system. the OGL is a brilliant marketting move... Ryan did it to emulate the whole Windows paradigm... that anything can run as long as you have Windows underneath. D20, especially Wizards books themselves, have been some of the most graphically appealing books I have ever seen.

But for all that, you still have people locked into the mentality that what is written is exactly what must occur. No deviation, and no variance.

GREAT: Feats..... CON: Everyone tries to maximize the combat feats alone in most campaigns, even to the point of takign entire character class levels just to get an exclusive feat that by concept they woudl never truly have.

GREAT: Prestige Classes..... CON: People plan their character paths and assume that at a given level (the minimum to meet the requirements) it is their right to take this class. They are an amazing in-game tool for special orders and select fields of expertise... but they shoudl occur within the game reference, not be a target that people build their characters to hit.

In all actuality, if you run a game with the Dungeon Masters Guide, a Players Handbook... and one Campaign reference for more Feats and Prestige classes, D20 can still be an amazing game. It is easier to learn, and has the benefit that at any convention, 9 out of 10 people can sit down and game with you. It is when you add eight bazillion extra books into the mix, and instead of them conforming to the basic rule set, they deviate and in many cases break them, you get a real mess.

I highly reccommend the Ebberron campaign seetting book. The whole contest they ran to pick that one I thought would end up with more Forgotten Realms type diluted crap, and I couldn't have been more wrong. But beyond general scope books, I am not a fan of Modules or Villain books or any thing of that nature.

Ok, long winded this one... so let me actual give some constructive ideas in a follow up thread post hehe....