Glabutz

Ok. I'll try that. But if I remeber well, FREd gives the Comt Peacemaker as an exemple.

Thanks. But it looks like it is 4th Ed...

Ok, I should have wrote this on the other genre board, but it is also some kind of general discussion. I hope... So, I'm playing an old west scenario in 25 hours, but I don't have any characteristics for 1875 rifle or shotgun, or I don't recognize them in FREd. I bought the old Western Hero, but like someone told me on the Other Genre BOard, the guns are les effective than FREd's ones. Does anyone have updated characteristics ? Thanks.

I'll need time to analyze all this. but, for the OAF, it is possible to take it pff, in a duel. But thiswould be really difficult, because : 1. You have to go through the force shield 2. You have to grab that tiny little thing, near the heart of your ennemy. So, grab it of or killing him is quite the same...

Better, no doubt. But i'm not sure with the staistic : it doesn't need a skill roll to be efficient. It's more likely like a Dune Shield that does not explose in a nuclear way when someone shoot at it. It's a very thin force field that turn on when something arrive quickly on the zone it is supposed to watch. So, only slw hth fighting style can hit the bearer, wherever does te damage come from, because they do not activate the hield. On the other hand, the most powerful weapons can just blow it of. The shield is a little broch you have on your coat. So, it should be an OAF. it should be a 40 or 50 PD/ED, with 15 PD/ED resistant. No charge.

I think this will be the opposite for a few sessions, because it is a PC's tool. But I know how it works... :D

I trust you. I have no other choice, sine i can't read your white font on the grey board.

Ok. That's definitly clear, and i understand the "hold action" thing. Also the +4 Dex ligthning reflexe. I'll call it the Killer Shrike mantle, if you don't object.

I'm really uncomfortable with the "held Actions". In most of other games, it is something you can easily get through, for, usually, it is quite useless and inadapted. It seems very different in Hero. So let's talk about that : Mad Scientist has Dex 13 (17), SPD 3 and Fast-Draw 17 (thanks the coat). In front of him is a cow boy with Dex 18, SPD 4 and Fast-Draw 15. It's a classic pistol duel at Hgh Noon. The Cow-boy should fire first, but if he does it, he would be charged with murder (even if such a situation can look quite weird for any lawyer). So, he hold on, but in the same phase, because that foght start on the 12th segment (the beginning of any fight). On Dex 17, Mad Scientist may fire. But then, he has to draw his gun fast, so he can fire in this segment. Cow-Boy shall also do this, seeing that Mad Scientist is going to shoot. he makes a fast draw roll, success is 5. Cow-boy's marge of succes is only 3. But he has the best dex, so he shout the poor mad scientist... Then, you don't need a high Fast Draw score, but a high dex.

Ok, but in this case, the powers aren't obvious, until you discover them . Until you fire your first shot, you should not guess anything. It is also true for the Spring loader. On the opposite, nothing could tell for the exosqueleton... The armor cannot be removed, but the exosqueleton and the Spring Loader might be damaged... (a shot in the back that pass the armor for the exosqueleton, the same in the right arm for the spring Loader) I like the names you gave, even if "micro mail " sounds not to pulp to me...

I don't understand the Ligthning reflexes : isn't the fast draw skill also used to be quicker ? (or am I confusing with the Fuzion rules?)

Thanks. You're closed to what I'm looking for. But i don't get th math. -1/2 means taht the option cost 3/4 of it real cost, rather than 1/2 ? Moreover, I'm a little bit confused with the OIF and IIF. For example, I want that no one nows that the coat is an armor without a close look. OIF ou IFF ? Also, there is no way that you can take his coat off in a fight. But,on the other hand, the exosqueletton and the fast draw mechanics can be damaged by someone who knows that they exist and where they are. Only a very close look (inside, mostly) will reveal the truth about the coat. OIF or IIF ? And then, is there an advantage that I should take, mostly a "secret identity" for coat ?

Hi all. I'm trying to create a device for one of my PCs, who is some kind of Pulp mad scientist. It's my first device, so i'm afraid to misunderstand some rules... He wants a amored coat that works like an exosquelton, with some kind of mecanism that allows him to have quickly his gun in his hand. So, I think of : a 8 DP/EP armor (24 points) With a fast draw skill (FD :17, works on a 14-, 10 points) And a Strngth of 16 (no figured characteristic, 3 points) It should have the OIF malus (coat) So, is it worth 18 or 31 points, or am I really miles away from it ?

I felt like that when I started a month ago Well, it is not very difficult to create acharacter until you come to the powers. For the basic character, you just have to spent points on the caracteristics (1 point for 1 strngth point, 3 for one dex points...), calculate your caracteristic roll (9+ (caracteristic/5)), and then buy your skills (depends on the skill, generaly 3 points to "open" the skill at your caracteristic roll, and then 2 points for a +1) The exception is the combat skill, but a thread cover this up (and is mure clear than the book ) Then, you may pick up advantages and flaws, and, if your game is about it, some powers. Hero is a "free ride" system, and you do really need to know where you're going before designing a character. Personnaly, I find that the GM toolkit is really useful for creating the characters : all the information you need are in the book sold with it. Welcome to this world I've just begun to discover...

After reading all this, I grab that old Western hero that was sleeping in that old shop. I didn't knew that ICE developped sold Hero Games in 1991... But, I'm glad to have it, and can't wait fr the 5th Ed. Whatever, meanwhile, can I use the charactes in that book without translating them ? Can I also use the weapons like that or should I translate them ?

I was more thinking about using it to determine the effect of the Hexe (spell). That's Gurp's choice. I find it interresting. So, if you need an Ego contest to make that power work, you'll still have to. But instead of rolling XD6, you pick X cards and see waht your hand is worth, with 5 of them... The effect should depends on that. For exemple, on a attack power, a pair would be woth 1 NDC, 2 for 2 pairs...

I think that more than death, you should show the players that they can loose something very important. CoC showed us the way, with insanity. That's a way you can use, changing the SAN (mental health ?) points to real psychological consequences, related to what they saw or went throught... A good exemple is GURP's fright table. The more you miss your roll (I'd say EGO roll ?), the more you get (phobia, psychose...) Also, the death of the character is not the most horrible thing that can happen (or a stupid death for a long loved character), for this also happen in other games. Especially if you play in semi historic medieval settings (japan is a good exemple) And if your character die, you just have to make an another one... New background, new motivations, new mentality... Some players enjoy that. On the other hand, I feel that the worst, for a player, is to see his character going down. So, that's my t to make horror scenarii : First of all, horror is not only fantastic.You can play horror films without any alien, ghoul or vamps. The ambiance is what makes an horror movie. 2. Start by playing "normal" scenarii, two or three, in which the supranatural (or whatever) may seem to appear, but dosen't. So, the players will learn to like their character, to developp his life, friends, wife, children... 3. Once they feel that the game is something else, just start to throw in "horror" things, so they can't really understand what happens. This is a great strength of the Hero System, versus CoC or Chill. When you give your players a CoC character sheet, they know what to expect... Horror and supranatural are worst when the players don't think that it could happen... 4. Then, you can go deeper in the horror. Their friends, wife, children may disappear. They need to be lost. They can't explain what they experienced to anyone, for they will appear mad. They can't figure out what happens. Flee the Buffy syndrom (you can't find anything you need in XVIth century books). They should guess what can happen, but can't get any certainty about htat (is this a vampire ? what kills the vampire ? Are the cross, the holy water and the stake in the hart useful ?) IMHO, horror is like erotism : the less you see, the more it works... 5. Hurt your players. Life isn't easy, and dealing with horror shall have consequences. Not only death, which is a kind of liberation, an end to all this, but more horrible : psychological limitation, physical injures... A maimed character is worst than a dead one. You can't just throw it away. you have to integrate this in your character psychology... Make them loose their lives. No more friends,no more social contacts. They may become, for others, killers or even worst. Once, John Wick said that the things the players remember the most is when they go throught the story, but get badly hurt all along. I agree. Of course, all this is hard, and you may become a badass GM. But then, your players will get what their looking for... Just keep the other ideas, for all of them are really good.

So do I, but not for the same reasons. I really don't like that system. First of all, if I've been playing GURPS, Fuzion, Action! and now Hero, it is mostly because I dislike playing with tons of dice, especialy with the 20 sided ones. Moreover, the system seems to much unfair : on a D4, tour chances to get a "hit", a critical success is 25%. I'm not sure that 2D6 is better than 2D4. So, after reading that empty book that is Deadlands - Weird West, bought for a few cents on e-bay, I went to GURPS Deadlands, which seems to me far more interesting. More things to read on the universe, more understandable rules... Good shot, even if I don't want to use Gurps. Hero gives me the feeling to be much more close to the spirit of that kind of universe than the two other systems. But then, I have to work on the hexes (spells), so they could still get that kind of feeling... I think that the way Gurps developped it is a really good thing. I'd like to introduce it in my HS game. So, rather than having D6 to throw, I'd rather have some kind of poker figures. I have to get the right number(in Gurps, the maximum might be 10 cards). The first 5 cards should be quite cheap, and the further ones should cost a lot...

Back again with WH, in a special background. I'm talking here about Gurps Deadland, since I find this "game" much more interresting than the Deadlands core rulebook (much more things in the second one) and easier to convert (what the hell can d8 represents in game temrs ? ) So, I think tat most of the game is easily convertible, but Deadlands magic is quite original. In Gurps deadlands, the Huckster (occidental mage) use a pocker card game to determine the effect of the spell : he first make his spell roll, and then take 5 cards for his first Magery level + one card /magery level above one + one card/5 ponts of success of the roll. The figures he gets gives the effect of that spell (let's say, for exemple, that a pair gives 1DC ND, 2DC for 2 pairs and so on...) I'd like to keep this part which bring some fun in the games but wonder how to convert it to hero. So far I think : 1. Buying the "power" gives you 5 cards to draw. Then it may be : 2. a) You may draw one more card for that power if you spent the points for it (5 points/card, or +1/4 ?) 3. a) If you make a Ego contest, you should get one more card for each 5 points you overthrow your opponent Ego. Or : 2. rather than buy 1D of effect, you gain 1 card. 3. you gain 1 card for each 5 points you succeed your ECV test. Wat do you Think of it ? Did someone work on that ? Thanks

I feel like 15 Ed is not enough against Bem can see in Space Hero (6D6 or 9 D6, for 21/32 to 36/54 normal damage...) I'd rather thought of a distinction between low velocity (no PD) and high velocity weapons (maybe 25 or 30 ED/PD) 5 KD is quite a lot if you use that system, for a laser or a gun can do only 5 KD. I can't imagine that this is a low velocity missile... That was one of my problems with FS. But it also use a 20 sided dice and 1.000 6 sided dice for the damage, with the possibility to make a head critical shot for 0 damage Even if I'm not entirely familiar with the HS, I prefer that system. Sorry, but I do like logic I'm so confused with the Companies that develop illogical (and sometimes awful) system for such great world (Hi, Deadlands ) when there is so much good ones out of there, and some of them free (Fuzion, if I remeber, is a good exemple, and so are Action! or Fudge).

I will have difficulties to answer to that, since we have a tradition of stupid translations for old westerns movies. The only one I know and remember (and really liked) in his true title is "The Man Who Killed Libety Vallance". Good classical movie, with a Cow-boy hero that is not what anyone thinks he is. But my favorite Cow-Boy is Clint, whatever the movie was, may he be pale Rider, unforgiven or a yojimbo . And in Sergio Leone's movie, he was so good....!

I know it has been spoken about a FREd version of Western Hero for 2009 , But I'd like to use it sooner. So I may ask a few questions, that some may answer with the old WH, that I don't own, since I'm a 5th Ed newcomer. So there they are : 1. The duels Duels are an important part of the Western feeling (at least for us, Sergio Leone & Clint Eastwood fed europeans). How can you use that feeling ? Is there rules for this, rather than just a fast draw skill ? I was wondering of a ECV contest, with a fast draw malus for the looser. What do you think ? May holding action help to create the "Sergio Leone " feeling ? 2. Mortality Life of a Western Hero is not that simple. You can't get your ultra cool plate armor, nor this kevlar suit. Fights gonna be deadly. That's the way it should be .Since players are hero, hey should not die agains only one henchman, but this can change if they face the level big boss. What do you think of using "Hero Points", for exemple, non used xp, that you could trade for a +3 bonus on a skill roll, attack roll or that reduce the body loss by 3 points, or Stun by 6 ? 3. "Rodeo" and such "I'm a horse riding star" Just a Riding roll ? No great fun...

I must disagree with that. But so do you. In fact, the way your OCV/ DCV is calculate is very important to me, because it describes your character. So,if little John is a Winchester pro but doesn't know how to keep on his feet whil ehe is running, he should have a low dex (and so low OCV/DCV) but a high CSL for winchester range attacks (3 or 5 points par level ?) On the other hand, if Big Bill is a natural born killer, he should have high dex, and so far, not necessary a lot of CSL. It looks like munchking is quite easy, since for 15 points, you gain a +1/+1. Well, it is true that you could gain the same advantage with 11 or 13 points (8 for general, and then 3 points for defense options) French players are not really used to high power games. When I first read FREd, I was surpized by the Super Hero feeling (but I understand it) and that you all seem t play it in supeheroic levels. Well, at first, I'd rather have Heroic characters, than super heroic. But things may change after all our discussion. Why not, if they don't wear 4 colors pyjamas ? It looks like we, french players, need maximum levels, that no one can have, and get them after a few gaming sessions. But my original point was to say that I feel the need to have different characters (that is the first and main reason I decided to leave Gurps, because I am fed up of STR 9, DX 15, IQ 15, H 9 characters). That is why I dropped L5R. So I wondered how not to have the same problem here. But with a 20 Dex max, I think I'm quite ok. And you showed that you can have the same efficency with different ways. Kewl

Thanks, Killer Shrike. That helps a lot. But, if I can, I'd like to ask a few more question about this : what can I do when there is no martial manoeuvers ? Example : In a few weeks, we'll start a Deadlands campaign. The deadlands system is horrible, and there is no way I can play with it. So I have to choose if I switch to Gurps (bof) or to Hero (I find it cooler). But then, the OCV/DCV thing shows up again. Let's say that PCs will have a base OCV/DCV of 5 or 6. No martial art will be available, but for the chinese or european PCs (savate is described in UMA). Gunfight will be quite frequent. So, I think that each of the should have some +5 CSL with their favorite gun, +3 HTH CSL (or the opposite if they feel more "manual"). They might trade some points to get range modifier or loc modifiers. Will they be Munchkins ?

Yop, it loks quite incomplete. Everything depends on what you call rifle and pistol caliber. The HK MP 5 and a Beretta M92F or a Glok 19 use the same ammunition. On the other hand, pistols use shorter ammo than hand guns, and this is what you mean, I guess. So, even if this is incomplete, I think I can work something out with it, so thanks a lot.