Doc Democracy

Re: 3 Questions - Force Wall and Area of Effect

OK. What I see here is that you want to be able to generate a disk of force that on one side would repel attacks and on the other would allow you to step into it and teleport.

To me that is an entangle (only to create barriers) and a teleport (only fixed locations - location of barrier). Thus, if you generate a disk close to you to hide behind, you could then create another disk at the range limit of your entangle and then step from one to the other.

I think you could define the size of the entangle barrier when you create it (bit harder to work out without the book in front of me).

Doc

Re: Which are the optional bits?

DrFaust

Steve Long has pitched 5th edition as a toolkit. As such I think that everything is optional. Pick and choose what you want to use and play the game you want to play.

The main caveat must be that HERO has probably been designed for balance more than any other system out there. You have to be careful that the changes you make don't unduly unbalance the system. As Nexus pointed out, dropping turn mode has the potentially unexpected impact of changing the value of running relative to flight.

Changing things gets easier as you get more experience. HERO is a tinkerers dream - have a blast.

Doc

Re: Presenting a genre using the toolkit

If this custom supers sheet is accessible anywhere online I would love to see it. I'll even send Doc D a SASE.

have attached a few sheets - two champions and two justice inc

Doc

Re: Stretching A Core System: Part Deux

nicely put. I'm afraid you are looking for people to be careful of the words they use in debate and discussion - a controlled vocabulary.

It'd be lovely but I don't think it'll happen.

I sometimes think that people don't want to speak clearly!

Doc

Re: Stupid question

Wonder Woman Clone has bracers with which she can deflect incoming ranged attacks. They are built as obvious inaccessible focii.

 

Missile deflect 20 points (all ranged) and +5 on the deflection roll for 10 points.

 

Apply the OIF: what does it cost now?

 

• 20 points: you can apply the limitation to the whole kaboodle
  
• 23 points: you can't apply the limitation to the skill levels
  
• Something else
  

To me it is 20 points - the OIF applies to it all - you lose the levels when you lost the focus as well. If you wanted to keep the levels available in the event that some other method of deflection came up that you could use them with then the OIF wouldn't count.

[warning]That's all from my head - I haven't looked at a book[/warning]

Re: Interesting power for help and discussion

I suppose for me it would depend on the actual play effects. It seems obvious that it is either damage shield or trigger.

If it is trigger then it has to be reset every time it goes off. If it is damage shield then it'll have to be made a continuing power but would have the offset limitation that only telepathic contact would incur the damage.

Personally I think that you are looking at a PRE Attack Damage Shield. It would be xD6 PRE Attack, damage shield, only when contacted telepathically.

Doc

Re: Presenting a genre using the toolkit

I also don't believe in the idea that something is bought as a whole like "Savvy" is a set plus to INT or somesuch.

Is that like I don't believe in ghosts?

I'm not sure what you mean. You don't believe that the GM should make packages that PCs can purchase?

Obviously this is all about the style of play. I know I can put together a package of stuff that makes HERO as playable as D20 in the minds of my group - but allows me to monitor balance issues whenever I want to add something new.

When I create a spell list for my Fantasy Hero game surely I'm just putting together a whole like 'Savvy' that provides a set plus to INT or somesuch??

I was using this thread to ask whether people have thought about altering the presentation of the game to their players through either the character sheet or limiting the available rules. I guess your answer is no!

Doc

Re: Presenting a genre using the toolkit

Ok this is not really on topic but ---

 

If this custom supers sheet is accessible anywhere online I would love to see it. I'll even send Doc D a SASE.

I'm at work just now. I'll have a scout through the files I have on my PC at home and see whether I've kept everything. If I have then I'll mail you what I have.

Will PM when I know...

Doc

Re: Presenting a genre using the toolkit

While I totally understand where you are going with this... I think this might be anethema to many Hero vets. The point of Hero to many (and partly to myself as well) is that the Character sheet looks the same for every game... characters from one game are insertable into any other Hero game' date=' etc. That buying INT means the same thing, whether you are a Mad Scientist in a Dark Western game or an Astro-Physicist in a Sci-Fi game. [/quote']

 

Yup. I think that HERO vets might not like it, though, given our technology now it shouldn't be too hard to have electronic files that can produce the Dark Western sheet - full of genre goodness - or the HERO geeksheet - full of crunchy goodness - depending on the player.

 

As a GM I may want to run a Dark Western game with players who would throw up their hands in horror that I planned to foist HERO on them but would lap up the Dark Western sheets without any realisation that they were HERO gaming.

 

I do plan to get round to designing this character sheet and a list of house rules for running a Cowboys game - when work, young baby and neglected wide allow...

 

Doc

Re: Presenting a genre using the toolkit

I thought that one of your original ideas was to list the stats and figured characteristics but change the name to fit the genre.

 

Didn't you use the example of guts instead of stun?

 

Maybe something like savvy instead of INT

 

Shem

That's right. If I felt the need to quote stats then I'd try to use more genre style names for them (stolen from Deadlands and so a good idea!).

I'm loathe to have something on the character sheet that I don't intend to come into play though. If I don't want people increasing INT on a point for point basis but instead through buying 'Savvy', which would be +5 INT then I shouldn't put INT on the character sheet, just somewhere to note that the person bought Savvy and can indicate the consequences of that.

I thought I'd spin this off the 'stretching the core system' thread.

For example' date=' when I run my "Western Champions" game I intend to remove the speed chart with cards (Each player is delt a number of cards equal to his speed, then count down from Ace to Duece). I will also be using one of the options for the luck system, and representing the rerolls with poker chips.[/quote']

 

I'm interested in this as Shem said. when you were considering the campaign did you sit down and decide what genre 'bits' you wanted to emphasise?

 

Cowboys to me mean gunfights, gamblers, corrupt politicians, indians and horses.

 

If I was playing in a cowboy game I'd want these things to be paramount and therefore I'd want the bits of the system that emphasise these to be prominent and other bits to be completely absent.

 

As such I'd redesing the character sheet. I'd have a box for gunfights that's have OCV type data and room for weapon stats and manouevres. I'd have a box for horse stuff and what skills I have there. I'd have a box for social status - possibly bounty value would go in here as well. I think a lot of cowboy stuff would depend on social status so I might record Hunteds as well as Perks and other things in this box.

 

Haven't completely thought it through but I think nearly everything else would be hidden. Rather than list STR DEX etc I'd have a box for physical characteristics that would assume everyone was 10 unless otherwise stated. I'd give names to increased stats - Strong as a Horse for example might indicate STR of 18-20 and provide "+2D6 in brawling etc" on the character sheet. Lightning Fast might indicate a DEX of 18 and the character sheet would indicate that Shootin' etc would get a +3 bonus.

 

How would other people present a genre to their players? Anyone thought about it?

 

 

Doc

Re: How far to stretch a core system?

I think a lot of the "HERO is sacrosanct" mentality stems from a need for a Unified Hero Theory (UHT) on the boards. If we all were to start posing questions' date=' and get really bogged down in our personal house rules, the community would be less able to help.[/quote']

 

I think what is being suggested wouldn't remove the ultimate UHT - it would just move it out of view. The detailed system is like the 'elephant in the sitting room' that we all agree to ignore - then everyone laughs at us when we say "What elephant?".

 

The genre rules that people would use would all have the UHT underlying it. If they had a genre applied to their campaign then they would still be able to use the UHT to answer their questions and then they would have to think about how the answer should look and feel within that genre application.

 

Does that make sense - I feel that I'm starting to speak in jargon....

 

 

Doc

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

I guess I am in the minority. I love the toolkit nature of Hero and if anything, I'd like to see that expanded on. I don't really need setting. I can come up with setting and most published setting bore me to tears anyway. I love books like Star and Fantasy Hero though. Instead of precanned setting I get the tools to create as many different games as I feel the need too.

 

That being said. I did enjoy Terran Empire and Turkanian Age. And another Hero setting might be nice to look at it, but I wouldn't want it to eslipse the genre books.

I don't think you are in the minority, at least not on these boards. HERO is a game for tinkerers whether they admit it or not. All HERO people love to look at the detail of the system. What people are saying is that sometimes it would be nice to be able to pick up something that allowed you to use the system without tailoring the bits and pieces to get the genre feel you want for that game.

I was thinking that one of the things HERO might want to consider is a low-cost supplement kind of thing - like a skin for the PC - essentially a list of house rules for a genre - cost $5 or less. You could have hundreds of these available for download - even better if they could be GM shield style theat could be ordered on coloured cardboard for perhaps a bit more money.

I think that people are more likely to drop $5 a week on four small purchases than $20 a month on one bigger one. I think that game companies, like comic companies, are abandoning low value products and that the end effect is that they rarify the market. You need to be bringing kids in at the low end and for that you need some accessible products. Sidekick is fantastic, at the price it provides an easy purchase and a playable game that can lead to the bigger books. Once you have the bigger books, I'd welcome something lower cost that I can impulse buy more often.

Doc

Re: Stargate Hero

The problem with the way you do it in the file is that you risk the occasional blip where the number of workers drops...I think about the 20th iteration whereas using total BODY the numbers can only increase with time (unless the heroes are doing their job and taking them out....)

Doc

Re: Stargate Hero

I thought you'd have used total body transformed to calculate the number of Workers and Warriors available...

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

To me... from a perception and sales perspective... you have to make the potential buyer say "WHOA! That's cool!" before you get them to ask "How did they build that? How does the system support such a cool game?"

 

[snip]

 

Hero has no sports car... they just have a really REALLY nice, fully equipped machine shop.

Apparently I'm not very good at spreading rep - just tried you (and Zornwil on another thread) and will have to give others before I get back to you....

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

It's your opinion on the books. Personally I don't agree.

I thought the 5th edition was a bit corporate but given that the system was being resuscitated from a mortal gap in revenue generation I think that I was delighted to see a book at all even if it didn't feature art by George Perez.

I've spoken to Steve Long and he said that he learned a lot through writing the Fifth Edition and learned more writing Sidekick. Those statements could be taken as an acknowledgement that the rulebook was less than perfect but it also shows that he thinks the books are getting better as they go on.

I'm not sure where you get fluffy from, the books are as hardcore as you can get - there's crunchy bits EVERYWHERE. I reckon you mean unfocussed but that is IMO the strength and weakness of HERO.

It's hard to be focussed in a toolkit. 4th Edition was still Champions where the rules might be used elsewhere and so the focus of the book was superheroes. In fifth edition there is no pre-supposition that the book will be used to play superheroes (and maybe some other stuff) that makes the rules hard to focus. They are supposed to be open ended.

Personally I thought Star Hero was the best generic space RPG rulebook I've ever read - it provides so much aid to someone wanting to set up a sci-fi game. Like any other long time HERO player the other stuff is nothing that I couldn't do myself given time. Alien Wars and Terran Empire should be sefl referential - they're campaign books - they need to connect.

Why were we afraid of the Xenovores - well STR 13 compares to an average human STR 8 - or in HERO terms the aliens are twice as strong as humans. That's impressive - it's just that the system doesn't make that immediately explicit.

Fantasy Hero is a huge tome that tries to provide guidance on how you can use the toolkit to construct a huge variety of Fantasy campaigns - it wasn't the place for concrete examples - it was very much an ideas book that provided broad paths that could be developed.

I guess that means I pretty much disagree with you - which doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong. I'm pleased that the books are there. I'll buy more when they are published. IMO you have approached a few of these books looking for things they were never designed to provide - no wonder you were disappointed.

I'm pleased you posted though - even if you don't buy any more books this is the place to be for anyone that wants to game using the HERO system.

Doc

Re: How far to stretch a core system?

People might be beginning to recognise that this is one of my hobby horses.

I think that HERO, as a toolkit, should be allowed to provide all kinds of frameworks to enhance gameplay. If a particular feature of the game doesn't work for a particular type of game then eliminate it. To me its still HERO.

I would be interested in buying such stuff with the provision that there was a section for HERO geeks that detailed what they'd done to the core system to achieve their particular use of the toolkit. I wouldn't care if that was in the book (expensive) or in a pdf that I could download.

I think that anything that uses the HERO system as the starting point of constructing their particular ruleset could easily come within the extended HERO family.

HERO has provided core rules for effects, characteristics, skills and several contest mechanisms (combat, skills, mental combat to name three - PRE attack to name another). I think there could be a lot more evocative games produced using even fragments of the core system that would be understandable and scalable by owners of the toolkit but would allow more limited gameplay just through the gamebook.

See. My hobby horse...

Doc

Re: Fooling Detect

I was wondering whether you might use shapeshift for this. It is simply a super-disguise power you are talking about....

Doc

Usually a NGD thing but this seems to be Shem's natural home.

Happy birthday weird mutant hobbit....

Re: Torg HERO

There's more than two ways to go Phil, this is HERO.

Anyway. I think you are looking to create as much of the look and feel as possible without feeling constrained by bad mechanics.

If you want to use the cards then you do need to limit speed - that has nothing to do with initiative though. I think the cards are pretty integral to TORG - though not the background. The cards are how the game tries to inject cinematic and HERO is not the most cinematic of systems so the cards should stay for look and feel reasons. The cards assume the same number of actions per round thus SPD should probably be static.

Re: Torg HERO

I'd probably limit SPD to 4 (since it is a heroic setting) unless there's some reason (say in the Nile Empire) that you would want a 6 or better speed. The Atomic Top could RULE in Nile Empire with a 6 speed!

I think, if you were using the cards that it wouldn't make much difference. Speed variations would be through powers or the cards

True. Cutting out Speed altogether and getting rid of the Speed Chart wouldn't be too bad, unless you were running a speedster of some kind.

 

Jak

even then. the speedster could get some advantages - not necessarily extra moves per turn...

Re: How would you build this

no need, but he wanted the mind controller to believe he was successful. the ds or trigger manages that

Re: How would you build this

That's right, a 5th edition change. It's made DS _very_ expensive...

Re: Horror HERO: Unofficial What Would You Like To See

a cool character sheet (or sheets) so that you feel like you are playing a horror game rather than just a low power champions game...

Doc