Doc Democracy

Re: Keeping them distant

it's hard to dance around a spearman

I suppose you could just do what Achilles (Brad Pitt) and use a direct approach...

Re: Keeping them distant

hmm' date=' that sounds like a feasable option. I had tried to make something simular for shild/pike walling, but I used force wall.[/quote']

 

I considered force wall at the start and I think that it probably works well for shield walls but for one on one combat it just didn't feel right.

 

I also wanted the user of the reach weapon to _have_ to succeed to keep his opponent at range and then be able to damage him if he did so, without many extra dice rolls. With a force wall the opponent has to do enough damage rather than do enough manouevering to get in close.

 

Like I said with a shield wall the dynamics change and the need is to smash through the defence rather than dance round it...

 

 

Doc

Re: Keeping them distant

I was thinking of reach weapons like polearms or spears but I guess it could work wherever one weapon was significantly longer. Would it make a difference?

I have been trying to think of a mechanic that would emulate the use of a long weapon to keep an opponent at range and prevent them from using a shorter weapon to attack.

My current thinking is a special grab manouever (only to prevent closing movement) The requirements would be a long weapon and a successful grab would allow weapon damage to be inflicted. The best thing about it is that a strong enough opponent would be able to throw the weapon aside and close.

I think that the manoever would give 1/2 DCV - if someone did close the long weapon wielder is in bother...

Anyone else given some thought to this?

Doc

Runes

I'm thinking that I'll try and make runes a bit more prominent in the game than they were in either RQ or HQ.

On the character sheet there will be space to show the relationship between the character and a variety of runes. The initial runes for a character would be defined by the culture and family background of the character, for example, if the character was the son of an Orlanthi farmer he would have a relationship with the Storm rune, Movement rune, Earth rune and Beast rune.

Each rune will have two numbers associated with it - the rune number would indicate the strength of the association and this would play a role in contests such as joining particular cults or on heroquests. The second number would be a pool of available points - a Rune pool.

Every skill and spell would attract a 1pt surcharge that would add to a particular rune (often a choice of runes) e.g. Kuschile Horse Archery would add a point to Sky pool, though an argument could be made for Truth (another cult rune) or Beast due to the nature of the skill.

Points in rune pools could be used to purchase abilities taught by an associated cult (though while the cost still costs an extra point it does not add to the pool).

Associated abilities may also be boosted by spending a point of the pool - for example a character with 8 points in their Fire rune pool can increase the damage done by a FireArrow spell by 8 STUN and 2 BODY (STUN/3 no rounding)

The rune number (for a particular rune) would increase by one every time a point is added to the associated rune pool.

I would also provide special effects for high rune numbers, for example, a Humakti with a Death Rune number of 10 or greater would cause flowers to wilt if he stayed close for too long or increase the risk of abortions etc.

Doc

Magic in MyGlorantha

OK. the principles of magic in my Glorantha are that all magic must be activated (though this may simply be focussing on a tattoo). If targetted on someone else though then the spellcaster must overcome his opponent's spirit fo rthe spell to take effect.

Spirit gets depleted through the use of Battle magic

Spirit is used to buy Rune Magic though does not get depleted through its use.

A character's spirit is limited in size until he achieves Rune Priest status.

Battle magic is short term magic powered through spirit that achieves small practical effects.

Rune magic allows the caster to emulate the feats of his God.

That's what magic in Glorantha means to me. Magic mean anything else to other people?

Re: Help on mechanics for 1st ever HERO session

IIRC knockdown is determined by calculating the body damage of an attack (before defenses) and subtracting a 2d6 roll from it (3d6 for martial attacks). If the total exceeds zero the character is knocked down.

I was thinking that he was looking for a mechanic that didn't involve another dice roll - thus stripping down combat time requirements.

Re: VPP vs Multipower

So, looking for Cyberoptics, Cyberhear or Cyberarms, i see that thsi items can accept multiple "add-on", but are limited (only 4 spaces, some optional use more than one space)

For example, my cyberoptics has 4 free space for optional, but some optional (Times Square Plus, Video Imager, and like) use ore than one space.

Idea is to build this as a VPP: only one can be used at any time, i can change optional in any tech/medtech store (this is the true difference between VPP and Multis), and like.

No "free space for optional" is defined, cause VPP pool is the cap...

The problem I can see with a VPP is how you keep the power pools seperate for optics/hear/arms. It would be neater to have three multipowers than three VPPs and VPPs get less cost effective as their size and applicability decreases.

Doc

Re: Help on mechanics for 1st ever HERO session

The thing is, doesnt this mean that it's a bit tough to knock someone down with a Move Through if knockdown if a function of BODY damage?

 

I was thinking that if pre-soak STUN > REC, it's a knockdown (or if pre-soak BODY > BODY as you suggested).

 

Bear in mind that I am a complete newbie wrt the rules!

 

Also, let me just say that I do really appreciate your feedback.

 

Thanks,

 

(_8(0)

It depends on how often you want people knocked down. I was thinking of pre-defence BODY rather than BODY damage taken, so a 10D6 normal attack would knock down your average person but it would take more for more solid people (though BODY does not necessarily equate to mass).

Perhaps make knockdown a 10 difficulty which increases by 1 for every point of knockback resistance and/or x2 mass and perhaps decreases by 1 for every 5" of impact velocity??

If you go for pre-soak STUN > REC then every hit is likely to knock people over and you wont be streamlining your combats - you'll be making them longer - average REC is likely to be less than 10 (in a fantasy hero game) and so your average 4D6 normal attack will knock people over.

How often do you want knockdown to happen?

Doc

Re: Help on mechanics for 1st ever HERO session

- knockdown: we liked Exalted's pre-soak damage treatement of knockdown, and I'm wondering if there is really straightforward treatment of something similar in HERO without using hit locations (see below)

Well you could simply say that any attack that does a characters [unmodified] BODY or more knocks them down. That takes away any need to roll more dice etc.

Each character would have a knockdown number that would be equal to their BODY.

Doc

Re: Velocity Discrepancies

Doing less damage because of a HIGHER SPD is silly. The problem' date=' of course, is that the idea of velocity-based damage and SPD x Movement Rate are not compatible systems.[/quote']

 

Well, it's not really doing less damage because it has a higher SPD, its doing less damage because it has a less inches of movement. The question about cars is whay should they have different SPDs? What advantage does it confer? I'd say that all cars should have the same SPD and that simply for the purpose of calculating velocity.

 

In the case of superheroes - it remains a problem.

 

 

Doc

Runes

What role should the runes play?

When I got Runequest the runes seemed central to everything but in Heroquest they seem to have moved away from the centre of things.

I would like to see the runes play a significant role in Glorantha Hero. I was thinking that the character sheet should indicate the strength of connection the character has with a variety of runes - that might determine what cults etc the character would find it easy to join. The strength would come from development of particular skills and spells etc.

Doc

Re: Paying for Items, yes/no?

To me the difference in paying for things and not is control.

If I as a player as milling to spend points on something then the GM, as long as teh request is reasonable, has an obligation to help me get what I want. If I don't want to spend points then I can make do with what is offered up to me.

In the D&D game we've been playing another board member, Shem Whistler, is playing a stupid elf warrior who was designed to be a DEX based fighter. In the first scenario he found a huge sword that he thought would be better than his orcish long knife (he was raised by orcs, its a long story). He found the sword difficult to use until the wizard cast enlarge on him and he drank a potion of bulls strength.

Now he wants the sword to be able to enlarge him when he draws it. The GM wasn't willing to change the sword - and quite rightly so, it would be a huge advantage to him and would be done almost entirely by GM fiat.

If this was a Fantasy Hero campaign the GM would still be able to refuse until the player said "Well, I have a bunch of XP stored here. What if I bought the sword with the powers inherent in it and the bard recognised some symbols that revealed this hidden power of the sword or it fell into an alchemists pot when he was brewing an enlarge potion??" In this instance I would say that the GM would have a responsibility to make it happen. The player is willing to put up his XP for the advantage, and it isn't unreasonable, so he should get it.

Doc

Feel of the characters

While we are in a discussion here I thought I'd try and guage a few thoughts on what people expect when they play a Gloranthan character.

When I play in Glorantha my thoughts are to involve my character in the wider network of communities and politics that exist all over that world. Even choices about what magic you learn inveigles you in politics of one sort or another.

As far as I see it, all of this leads to the Hero Wars where the future nature of the world is decided and each faction in the world has to generate Heroes that can fight for their way of existence.

To that end I need to think how to present the characters and what facets of a character that I focus on.

I think the important parts of the chracter sheet are going to be

relationships/affiliations

major character traits

magic use

skills

combat

I liked the way that the King of Dragon Pass had a stripped down character decription indicating the broad areas where the character was strong or weak. I also liked the way that HeroQuest only mentions a characters notable traits. I may make the system so that I have something similar.

What made a RQ or HQ character stand out from other systems for you and was that because of the system or because of the setting. (You might guess that I'm more interested in setting type stuff).

Doc

Re: Glorantha Hero

75+ Disadvantages

15**Psychological Limitation: Overconfidence (Very Common, Moderate)

Hmm. Mistress Race troll, overconfident. It's not overconfidence when you are so much superior to everyone else!

Re: Glorantha Hero

I can't imagine not taking Dorastor seriously. Especially with Ralzakark the unicorn broo superhero and his broo Humakti castrati...

I think they'd just never considered that there would be super-powerful individuals in there. It was early in our gaming life and they were still naive. _I_ had read Cults of Terror and had my innocence stripped away from me!

Re: Glorantha Hero

Thed worship is definately animistic' date=' although only "socialized" broo would have any magic at all. Most animalistic or wild broo probably survive on the basis of their chaos traits. Broo who've somehow gained some kind of primitive learning would be animists, with their shaman dealing with spirits of Thed, Malia, and other Chaos spirits. Particularly in Prax.[/quote']

 

I remember soon after acquiring my Cults of Terror in the midst of my RQII campaign my players encountered a broo.

 

They were terrified as there was just _a_ broo. Treasure factor stuf indicated that there should be about 20 of the beasts but there was only one. They never expected to find a broo with a magic and a mastery rune tattooed on its forehead...

 

They decided to start thinking about their foray into Dorastor a bit more seriously after that.

 

 

Doc

Re: Glorantha Hero

A captured female PC's fate would certainly look grim' date=' but I'd come up with a way to stop the action, depending on how the PC's play it out. If they were to utterly screw up and neither come up with a rescue nor even a halfassed attempt to escape then I'd probably make it a bad-to-worse damsel in distress situation.[/quote']

 

And there you have a difference. In my Glorantha it didn't matter whether the rape was made on a male or female character, the larva was implanted and will be born.

 

It actually made the horror of the broo that much worse...

Re: Glorantha Hero

Well, there's a particular trait of the broo that seems to be missing... that broo propagation should probably be a Transform (with Gestures and Extra Time, maybe Concentration?). It'd probably be quite expensive, too. It might be interesting to try modeling it as a Summon, with Side Effects and Delayed Effect, though.

 

And I'd give them a small Bite attack of some kind -- they do chew their way out of "mother", after all...)

I might be inclined to model that as a killing attack, the pain and death are just 'delayed' a bit and might be avoided given some unusual healing magic. Just as another option...

Re: Glorantha Hero

"Typical" Broo

Kudos.

I'm not sure what I'll convert and what I wont but Broo are a must for any Praxian campaign.

The actual mechanics I'll eventually use will depend on how I set up the system but you can consider the majority of this to be stolen! Thanks

Doc

Re: Glorantha Hero

Prax: If you're thinking of running Prax' date=' do yourself a favor and pick up the Gloranthan Classics book that reprints [i']Cults of Prax[/i] and Cults of Terror. IMO, they're the best RQ Gloranthan books ever published.

I still have my RQII copies but the reprint is fantastic for the extras that it has - recommended to anyone.

However' date=' the rune cults in [i']Cults of Prax[/i] seem very theistic to me nowadays, not so much animistic. For Fantasy Hero, I'd actually recommend trying something like the summoning rules from the Valdorian Age to model animism, even though it doesn't really match what goes on in HeroQuest, either.

Thanks for the heads up. I haven't given a great deal of thought in how to make the different magics different. I guess that animism is based around the use of captured spirits etc. Theism is using powers that your Deity once displayed. HQ doesn't do a great job of differentiating these. I think it would be far more obvious using Hero.

Iron: Best source on Iron is from the Secrets Book from the RQ Elder Secrets boxed set. Basically, enchanted iron is tempered to steel (basically half again the armor points of bronze). Unenchanted iron is equivalent to bronze, but hinders magic (hindrance proportional to the weight of iron carried).

 

It also notes that iron damages certain elder races (mostly elves and trolls), and damages creatures otherwise immune to normal weapons.

I'll have a look at what it says. I think that in my Glorantha that I'm likely to have iron as a foreign substance that the dwarves have learned to work. Iron arms and armour will provide the obvious combat benefits but I'm inclined to make it a real problem for people trying to work magic near it. I guess in this endeavour I should stick close to Gloranthan norms.

Community in Heroquests: In Hero' date=' I'd either run it as an Aid effect that the community or temple adds to the hero via ritual, or I'd simply make it into a new Perk similar to the Equipment perk from [i']Dark Champions[/i] (where the hero'd spend points to have a pool of heroquest help available to him from the temple, instead of a pool of equipment).

 

I'd definately require the hero to take Contacts for his heroband, community, and temple, though. With the adders for being an Organization and for the amount of help he can get.

In Hero you tend to be defined by your network of contacts as much as anything else. I think that the contacts will be highly used in Glorantha Hero even up to your relationship with your God (or spirits) that provide your magic.

Heroquesting: The point I wanted to make was that you can't Heroquest to change history' date=' which is a common fallacy. You can seriously screw things up for yourself if you go back [i']before History[/i], particularly into the Green Age. Arcane Lore talks about this.

 

Most of the examples you used, however, are merely heroquests that reenact something natural.

 

The Red Moon rising into the sky wasn't a new thing -- there were a series of moons before the Great Darkness. Rufelza's heroquest simply put herself back into the sky where she belonged.

I guess the emphasis I should put is alter reality rather than change history. A moon was there and then it wasn't and then was again - at some point reality was altered! :-)

What the God Learners got up to with heroquesting is apparently not possible anymore' date=' so that's not an issue.[/quote']

 

Unless the current Hero Wars make that possible again. Not that King of Dragon Pass indicates that as the result.

Re: Grognardism ahoy!

Phew was right. Thanks for the effort in those comments.

First off' date=' get thee to http://www.glorantha.com/ and thence to http://www.lokarnos.com and read up on Glorantha. You seem to have a few, subtle differences in interpretation from Generally Accepted Glorantha (for which, see below). This won't mean much, though, other than that Your Glorantha Will Vary.[/quote']

 

I do have subtle differences in my Glorantha - they tend to be the bits that I liked from previous editions, mostly RQII. I've got most of the Glorantha stuff that Issaries have put out, recently I've probably run more HQ than Hero. I love the system but, ironically, I have a feeling that I might prefer superheroes using HQ and Glorantha using Hero...

 

Also' date=' I'd recommend choosing one small area of Glorantha and sticking to that, at least initially. With the nifty [i']Dragon Pass[/i] sourcebook for HeroQuest now out, I kind of like that as a setting. Prax, of course, is also an area that's well-supported (although somewhat out of print).

 

As you're going to have to be statting up everything, limiting yourself to one area/culture will make it easier on you. No need to worry about Grotarons or Rokari bishops if you're playing in Prax.

 

Yeah. I think that Prax is actually the area I want to stick to - there's been plenty of stuff brought out recently (Ian Thompson's stuff in the Pavis and Big Rubble Companions complement the fairly recent compendium). It means I can stick to Storm, Lunar and Solars and kind of ignore the West and Eastern mystics. I think I'll need to put some work into the animism though - the Praxian nomads need to feel significantly different to the theist stuff.

 

This is both a God Learnerism and a limited view of the runes.

 

It was something I picked out of the Unfinished Work on Heroquesting. I like the multiplicity of dualities - I didn't mean to say that they were all represented through the runes. The whole Hero Wars contest where the main contests are highlighted throughout the HQ rules are part of what I like about Glorantha - it isn't just good versus evil, there are contests between men and the elder races, between factions of the elder races, light and dark, life and chaos, storm and lunar etc etc

 

Iron isn't foreign to Glorantha, it just has a different origin than other metals (which are mined from the bones of gods killed in the Chaos Age).

 

Iron was invented by the dwarves specifically to fight Aldryami and Uz, which is why it burns both. It is also a runic metal, and as such has some specific properties -- much as other runic metals do, and the reason that they're tricky to use unless you get some help from a cult that knows how to work with that specific metal. (for example, one that knows how to fix quicksilver into aluminimum).

 

Hmmm. I always had it in my head it was foreign and thus so inimical to some of the elder races and disruptive to the magic that is intrinsic to everything else. I've also never seen it written as a runic metal and in my Glorantha it wont be!

 

You gain those unusual abilities by HeroQuesting into the Hero Plane or God Plane. And by doing so, you become a Hero (or Superhero like Harrek or Jar-eel).

 

HeroQuesting involves rituals that need the support of your community or temple or followers (better yet, all of 'em). All HeroQuests are dangerous and risky -- you "wager" your own abilities against other beings in the Hero Plane. You might win the abilties they have staked against you, or you might lose the ability you have staked. Or worse.

 

The least-risky HeroQuests are the ones where you reenact the deeds/myths of your own cult. Since your cult has knowledge about the secrets of these myths, they can tell you what you might be facing. Venturing off the myths you know -- "experimental HeroQuesting" -- is hideously dangerous and risky, since you literally don't know what you're doing.

 

When you enter a HeroQuest, the world responds as you face the challenges of the Hero Plane. Often, these opponents are your own, personal enemies, although they are filling the appropriate roles in the myth/story/quest you are enacting.

 

All useful stuff here. The role of relationships and community is huge in HQ and I think it would have to be in Glorantha Hero. I'll have to see what mechanisms I can use for this.

 

HeroQuests do not exactly "alter reality". They can bring back magic that has been done before (e.g.' date=' ending a drought with the Orlanth vs Aroka heroquest). Or they can verify that something is mythically "true" (e.g., the Red Goddess' battle at Castle Blue establishing her godhood).[/quote']

 

My biggest thought on altering reality was the introduction of the Red Moon to the Sky. The Glowline is also an altered reality that was probably accomplished via Heroquesting. The growing of corn I think was accomplished via Heroquest to infiltrate Dragon Pass with a Solar crop.

 

However you are entirely correct IMO as to the usual uses of Heroquesting (I'll have to finish that book I'm reading jst now - it was that that made me decide to do this).

 

Thanks again - such learned work will be most welcome on this humble thread.

 

 

Doc

OK. I realise that MarkDoc has done a good conversion of RQ2 to the Hero System [http://www.geocities.com/markdoc.geo/Gaming_stuff/Runequest/heroquest.htm] and that SCUBA Hero has been doing sterling work in converting RQ2 magic to the Hero System [http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7054&highlight=glorantha+hero]

What I want to do is set up Hero to play in Glorantha and make Hero a better system for Glorantha than RQ was. In both prior circumstances the conversions are system to system, I want to get the flavour of the setting and use the toolbox to provide a system to run in that world.

To that end I'd like people to chip in with what they think made Glorantha Glorantha rather than what made RQ, runequest.

To start I have some broad themes:

Magic (Sorcery/Theism/Animism/Mysticism) permeates the world, everyone has access to it and most tasks make use of specialised magic. Some magics are incompatible with others. The world revolves about dualities represented by runes.

Bronze age. Runic metals interfere with magic use. Iron is foreign to the world and provides a huge advantage in physical combat.

Adepts in magic systems can progress beyond normal physical abilities (e.g. Rune Lords)

Powerful beings can cross to a metaplane where reality can be altered.

When I get enough of this together I will try and put together some core rules for using the toolkit to play in Glorantha. I'll try and keep discussion on how the magic works til after I have the world basics down pat.

Anyone with anything else to add?

Doc

Re: Starting A New DC Campaign

One good way to make players stick together is to have an outside threat that they cannot defeat on their own. An outside threat that is a clear and present danger to their lives.

Maybe a villain has decided that these new street vigilantes are a bad thing, good job they work alone - he can beat any one of them, possibly any two. If he dedicates himself to the task the streets will be his before his 40th birthday. What a nice present that would be.

Perhaps a Lex Luthor style viallain would be better, luring these do-gooders into traps and killing them off.

I would even consider having them all draw up two character ideas at the start to get it straight in their head that this is _dark_ champions and their character could die - you don't want to waste time generating a new character in the middle of a game. This would allow me to kill any character that doesn't play ball without damaging the game for everyone else.

Doc

Re: In a Bind

Since the rope that I planned on using was 2 DEF/2 BOD' date=' I was going to treat it just like an entangle (Hands Only) and require a pure STR roll to defeat... but then I got to thinking that knots might would probably add BOD to that Entangle due to density, and in turn that might also add DEF. Would increasing the ropes to a 3 DEF/3 BOD due to the knots be out of the question?[/quote']

 

It depends on how easy you want people to be able to bust out of the ropes.

 

With a 10 STR, in a supers game someone could burst out of the 2 DEF/2 BODY ropes in a phase (10 STR pushed for 2D6 gives 4D6, averaging 4 BODY) and would break out of the 3 DEF/3 BODY in 3 phases.

 

Even in a heroic game the 2/2 ropes look a bit weeny. I would be tempted to go 5/1 for a supers game - the ropes will hold tight until a particular str total is reached and then will snap like a paper chain! I might settle for 4/1 for a heroic game.

 

You could also decide that a lot of wriggling would let someone get out of the ropes regardless of their strength. That is more like 0 DEF with enough BODY to reflect the amount of time you want them kept there for...

 

The beauty of HERO is that you can decide that you want STR 10 characters to be effectively tied for ever - make the DEF 8 and they have no chance at all of escaping (a pushed 4D6 will score a maximum of 8 BODY). Once you know what you want then use the mechanics to decide what the defences have to be.

 

 

Doc