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Semi-Vancian Vancian Powers


Armitage

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I've been tinkering with adapting elements of 3.5 D&D to Hero System off and on for ages.  One of the things that was always an issue was D&D applying Vancian-style "fire and forget" rules to things other than magic, effectively giving everything charges.  I realize that it's a game balance issue, in order to prevent a paladin from wading into an army of orcs and just smiting them every round, a monk stunning everyone he fights, or a cleric turning undead over and over and over.  Resource management has always been part of D&D.

For spells, I prefer using long-term Endurance, so a wizard can cast a Fireball every Phase if he wants to, but he's eventually going to exhaust himself.  It also helps avoid the notorious "15 minute work day".  The question becomes applying the concept to class abilities while retaining some of the flavor of D&D.

 

I had a thought...

 

Basic Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets).  Total cost: 16 points.

 

Modified Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets) (16 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2) plus Buy-Off Costs END and Increased END Cost (10 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2).  Total cost: 9 points.

 

For a savings of 7 points, you have a paladin who can Smite Evil once per day normally, and then each time he uses it after that, it costs 6 END.  At +2d6, it's a 13 point savings and 9 END.  The same thing can be applied to other class abilities that have limited uses in D&D.  The END multiplier and number of Charges can be modified according to personal preferences for a campaign.

A character still has to carefully consider when they want to expend their abilities, but they're not left completely helpless if they unload on a lieutenant, thinking he's the Big Bad.

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The real comparison to me is:

 

Basic Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets) (16 Active Cost); 1 Charge (-2)  Real cost: 5 points.

Use once per day, period.

 

Modified Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets) (16 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2) Real Cost: 6

plus 

Buy-Off Costs END and Increased END Cost (10 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2) Real Cost: 3  

Total cost: 9 points.

Usable once per day with no Endurance, unlimited at 6 END per cast (subject to LTE, etc).

 

I would be more of a mind to simply ditch charges and apply LTE as a side effect directly. So:

 

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets) (16 Active Cost); Side Effect: Minor, Always occurs, Lose 3 LTE per casting (-1/2) Real cost: 11 points. 

 
If the player preferred it could also cost End and/or Increased End to reduce the real cost and possibly make it have an effect on the combat directly. A maxed out high endurance Paladin could have 50 END (and thus 50 LTE) which would allow him to cast this many times a day, assuming that was all he needed to do. But if he has to fight and run and cast this and other effects, he has choices to make.
 
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Not sure that would be PRE. More like:
 

Mental Illusions: 6d6

Undead only (-1), Only to show images that would disturb their sense of reality (-1/2), Only if currently buried or entombed (-1)

 

Example: Play "Hooked on Classics 2" for undead Mozart.

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I've been tinkering with adapting elements of 3.5 D&D to Hero System off and on for ages.  One of the things that was always an issue was D&D applying Vancian-style "fire and forget" rules to things other than magic, effectively giving everything charges.  I realize that it's a game balance issue, in order to prevent a paladin from wading into an army of orcs and just smiting them every round, a monk stunning everyone he fights, or a cleric turning undead over and over and over.  Resource management has always been part of D&D.

For spells, I prefer using long-term Endurance, so a wizard can cast a Fireball every Phase if he wants to, but he's eventually going to exhaust himself.  It also helps avoid the notorious "15 minute work day".  The question becomes applying the concept to class abilities while retaining some of the flavor of D&D.

 

I had a thought...

 

Basic Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets).  Total cost: 16 points.

 

Modified Smite Evil:

Smite Evil:  Deadly Blow:  +1d6 (Against Evil Targets) (16 Active Points); Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2) plus Buy-Off Costs END and Increased END Cost (10 Active Points); 1 Charge (-2).  Total cost: 9 points.

 

For a savings of 7 points, you have a paladin who can Smite Evil once per day normally, and then each time he uses it after that, it costs 6 END.  At +2d6, it's a 13 point savings and 9 END.  The same thing can be applied to other class abilities that have limited uses in D&D.  The END multiplier and number of Charges can be modified according to personal preferences for a campaign.

A character still has to carefully consider when they want to expend their abilities, but they're not left completely helpless if they unload on a lieutenant, thinking he's the Big Bad.

Vancian Magic refers to the concept that Wizards charge up their spells by studying spell books. And once that spell is cast it is gone. Nothing about paladins in that.

 

Why should a paladin be limited to once per day smite?

Why not have his paladin powers run off an endurance battery with a limited recovery. It only recovers thru prayer or  rituals to the paladin's God.

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