Howto? A power to do weapon grab at range? vs. Multiple opponents?

[RicoZaid]

Is there a way to make a power do a weapon grab at range? What about vs multiple oppentents in an area?

 

Yea, like the Jedi do lol

 

Thanks!

[massey]

Yes, there are multiple ways to do it.

 

 

One way would be to use Telekinesis.  You'd do a disarm maneuver with it (which I think is -2 OCV unless you buy a martial art maneuver, but that's just off the top of my head and I might be wrong on it).  You could use it against multiple people by either spreading the attack, or doing a rapid fire maneuver.  Then it's a Str vs Str contest to get the weapons out of their hands.

 

or

 

You could start with TK, and put the Area of Effect advantage on it.  In order to specifically target certain people, you'd want the Selective advantage as well.  This lets you hit everyone in the area and grab all their weapons, Magneto-style.

 

or

 

You could buy it as a Dispel.  When Dispel is used against a Focus, with GM's option it "breaks" the Focus (though they can normally be repaired).  Calling it a disarm would be perfectly appropriate.  Likewise you'd buy it Area Effect to hit multiple people at once.

[RicoZaid]

Awesome! Thanks, you saved me a lot of time

[Christopher R Taylor]

Stretching with multiple power attack grab works, so would a transform (armed to disarm) or a blast (indirect, knockback, only to weapons held) or a teleport (area effect selective, only weapons held).  Lots of ways to do it, some more silly than others.

[Cantriped]

In ​Champions Complete​, when using Telekinesis to perform any maneuver other than Grab, Haymaker, Strike, and Multiple Attack the character must purchase said maneuvers separately for Telekinesis at a cost of 3 CP for a Standard Maneuver, or at their normal cost for Martial Maneuvers. For example, learning how to perform a Telekinetic Trip or Telekinetic Martial Grab each cost 3 CP, and learning how to perform a Telekinetic Martial Strike costs 4 CP. In the case of martial maneuvers it is implied you have to pay for the maneuver twice; once through Martial Arts, and again through Telekinesis (CC 83).

[massey]

In ​Champions Complete​, when using Telekinesis to perform any maneuver other than Grab, Haymaker, Strike, and Multiple Attack the character must purchase said maneuvers separately for Telekinesis at a cost of 3 CP for a Standard Maneuver, or at their normal cost for Martial Maneuvers. For example, learning how to perform a Telekinetic Trip or Telekinetic Martial Grab each cost 3 CP, and learning how to perform a Telekinetic Martial Strike costs 4 CP. In the case of martial maneuvers it is implied you have to pay for the maneuver twice; once through Martial Arts, and again through Telekinesis (CC 83).

 

Seriously?  You can't do Weapon Element: TK anymore?  That's dumb.  Those maneuvers aren't that good.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'd probably require a character to pay for using maneuvers with telekinesis but a 1 point weapon element should be sufficient.

[Cantriped]

I can kind of see the balance logic behind paying for Telekinetic Maneuvers, certain maneuvers don't reference your STR at all (such as Block), and certain martial maneuvers give huge STR/DC bonuses compared to their costs. For example, Martial Grab basically adds 20 APs to your TK for the price of 3-6 points (+1 DCV & +10 STR over a normal TK Grab).

I could see myself allowing someone to buy a Telekinetic Maneuvers package without first buying the martial maneuvers as a Martial Art. But I would never allow someone to simply pay 1 point for a weapon element to apply their Martial Art to Telekinesis (or their Telekinetic Maneuvers to hand-to-hand combat).

[bigdamnhero]

In ​Champions Complete​, when using Telekinesis to perform any maneuver other than Grab, Haymaker, Strike, and Multiple Attack the character must purchase said maneuvers separately for Telekinesis at a cost of 3 CP for a Standard Maneuver, or at their normal cost for Martial Maneuvers.

[emphasis mine] It doesn't quite say you have to buy them separately; it just says you must have paid points for them. "GMs may wish to allow characters to use TK with Maneuvers they’ve paid CP for." [CC89] The text on 6e1 p295 and 5ER p230 are functionally the same, so this isn't a new change.

 

I've always interpreted that to mean that Weapon Element: TK is allowed. I could swear I've seen published 6ed examples of character with Weapon Element: TK, but I don't have time to go hunting for them right now. But of course Weapon Element doesn't apply to non-Martial Maneuvers, so per RAW if you want to use TK with Standard or Optional Maneuvers you have to purchase them.

 

6e1 and 5ER also state you need to buy Fine Manipulation for "maneuvers requiring finesse (such as Nerve Strike)," but I've always required Fine Manip for any/all Martial Arts maneuvers. That cost more than covers what is basically just adding Ranged to existing Martial Arts.

[Cantriped]

Finding a pregenerated villain with Weapon Element (Telekinesis) isn't actually very good evidence for the case anyway (unless you found several I suppose). Poorly written (or outright illegal) Game Elements end up on published characters all the time. For example, Captain Chronos has an NND Entangle (which to be fair the author noted was illegal, but still)

 

While CC doesn't explicitly use the word "separately", it can be infered from the phrasing of the first two sentences of "TK With Maneuvers" (CC 89) that you are supposed to purchase a Martial Art followed by Telekinetic Maneuvers. From the first sentence we can infer that having already paid CP for the Maneuver (or gotten it for free) is a prerequisite purchasing a "telekinetic maneuver". The second sentence then explicitly defines the cost of purchasing telekinetic maneuvers​.

I believe that if the intent was for Weapon Element (Telekinesis) to be a valid option, it would have been mentioned in the second sentence instead of stating that telekinetic Martial Maneuvers are purchased "at their normal costs" "For these purposes".

 

Although, if the core rule hasn't changed since 5th edition, I'm sure a more interested party than myself could post a Rule Question for Steve Long to weigh in on.