Taking over a person's dreams with Mental Illusions

[indy523]

Ok so I am envisioning a power that allows a mentalist to insert his mind into a person while they are dreaming and essentially taking over the dream in the characters head and replacing it with their own mental illusion.

 

I am thinking that this is a full mental illusions power whereby the mentalist can control elements of the dreams from cosmetic changes to completely reorientating the complete mental landscape and recreating every element of the dream so from +0 to +30 effects.  I also envision that one can take damage in the dream and if you die in the dream you die for real .  This power will of course have to have at least 10 dice to be effective at that level.

 

Since this is a dream effect the target must be dreaming.  I am assuming the -1L Target must be dreaming because it can only be used on a sleeping person and only when they begin dreaming

 

Alternatively, I could envision the power as forcing the individual into a daydream thus they experience a waking dream.  The power still affects a dreaming sleeper above however now the daydream requires at least a mandatory +30 effect or more as you have to take over the target's senses while they are awake which means you shut off their perception of the real world.  So this is a -3/4L instead of the -1L above.

 

I envision the breakout roll to mean the character wakes up from the dream.

 

I am assuming that there must be some way to end the power by simply waking the target up in real life since they are no longer dreaming because they are asleep.  I also assume that the power would not work if the target is under any drug or effect that eliminates the ability to go into REM sleep.  Is this best handled with a limitation Restrainable at the -1/4L  This is affecting the target not the character with the power but this most closely aligns with the restrainable power in that one can end the effect by waking the target i.e. restraining the sleep.  

 

Mental defense then would reflect the targets mind being able to control the dream.  However as this involves a character disbelieving the dream or realizing that it is a dream then the power has to be bought AVAD Mental Defense +1/2A indicating that no PD or ED provides defense against the damage only mental defense.  Because the power is a dream then inconsistencies cannot build up thus giving bonuses to the rolls so this is I assume a +1/4 or +1/2A

 

I also assume that one could by the autofire advantage for the power indicating the number of minds that can be linked into the same dream setting so that characters could interact with each other.  This would by necessity preclude using it to hit a target more than once and instead allow the character to target multiple lines.  Of course, for this power 2-3 people at once would be an advantage of +1&1/4A making it much more costly. 

 

Is this the best way to create this power?.

Edited March 20, 2022 by indy523
Add Autofire

[Lord Liaden]

"Best" is always a loaded term when using Hero System.   There are usually multiple ways to do anything, the particulars depending on how you want the Power construct to work for your games.

 

What I read is that you have a very thoroughly thought-out design that fits your intention, so if you're happy with it you should use it. I'm not sure Autofire would be the most efficient way to "link up" multiple people in the dream, though -- the cost for END, or Reduced END, can get prohibitive. I'd probably go with Area of Effect, Selective Target.

 

FWIW there's an official Champions villain called the Dreamwitch (Champions Villains Volume Three: Solo Villains) who has that kind of power, also based on Mental Illusions, although nowhere near as detailed as what you have. However, she also has an Extra-Dimensional Movement Power to "the Dreamzone," a Champions Universe defined region of the Astral Plane where people's astral selves go when they dream. Another possible way I can suggest building this power is to jump off from EDM.

 

Let's say your character has a power like Dreamwitch above. If you give it the Advantage, Usable As Attack, that would let them force a sleeper's mind into a part of the "dreamzone" of your creation, where the conditions you want them to experience apply. Since such a Power construct requires you to define a way or ways to resist it, that could include Mental Defense, a successful Ego roll, not being asleep or being awakened by someone, or whatever Lims you prefer.

 

Just an alternative for your consideration.

[LoneWolf]

This sounds like normal mental illusions with no modifiers needed. I would not put the AVAD because a person in a dream still perceives themselves as they are.  A person’s dream self with naturally high defenses is going to have the same.  Keep in mind that if you achieve the right levels you can control access to a characters foci. If you can do body to the person dreaming you should be able to use transformation or drains to strip them of their powers.  Nothing in the rules on mental illusion prevents you from using illusionary adjustment powers.  Between this and being able to control access to foci should be all you need to reduce a characters defense to almost nothing. 

 

Since this power is going to need a lot of dice to achieve what it does adding any advantages are going to make it extremely expensive.  Adding things like autofire or area of effect may be technically correct will probably push this to the point of being too expensive.   If this is for a player character you have to consider game balance.  Just because you can build something in the hero system does not mean that the characters can have it.  Some power are too effective and should be out of reach for the characters.  If you are the GM and this is an NPC there are better ways to achieve this The extra dimensional movement that Lord Laiden mentioned is a better way to do this for a villain.

 

Another thing to consider is can the character controlling the dream perceive and interact with the dream?  If so you may also need telepath.  The last thing to consider is the fact that mental illusions are an instant power.  That means if you want to be able to change the “dream” after the you affect the target you need to make another attack and roll of the illusion.

[indy523]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:43 AM, LoneWolf said:

If this is for a player character you have to consider game balance.  Just because you can build something in the hero system does not mean that the characters can have it.  Some power are too effective and should be out of reach for the characters.  If you are the GM and this is an NPC there are better ways to achieve this The extra dimensional movement that Lord Laiden mentioned is a better way to do this for a villain.

 

The way I look at this is yes there are advantages that make it more expensive but there are significant limitations as well.  I am not seeing the advantages however as overpowering the attack for game balance i.e. making it more powerful as much as they are just expanding how the power works.

 

The reason for the AVAD Mental Defense is the dream is completely in the mind of the individual and the mind knows it is dreaming even if the dream seems real at the time.  Therefore any PD or ED would have no effect.  This is also why inconsistencies give no bonus to breakout roles as dreams by their nature are inconsistent.  The concept is a character that controls one's dreams.  The achilles heel to this power is the restrainable effect.  The character breaks out when they wake up, period.  The power has no ability to force the mind to continue to dream.  This means not just drugs that stop REM sleep but people trying to force the person up and if the dream becomes violent or scary enough to do damage it is possible the character wakes from fright.

 

This is for a character that is an NPC villain but despite the high RC of the power I am OK with it as in the end it is not that out of line.  I guess the other thing is since Mental Defense always applies I could use the AVAD to change PD and ED to the Resistance Talent making it easier for characters to survive it.

 

I tend to try to make powers that match how I envision them so even when I add significant limitations they are to my mind integral to the power and limiting the way I see them.  For this particular power the limitation is the ability to end this the way one would normally wake someone up.  The first version is more useful in that one can use it to make cosmetic changes as well as full fledged takeover of dreams.

 

The character may very well have to have some form of telepathy for that element of the power though now that you mention it because in that case they may have to know what the current dream is which may mean the power is linked to a successful telepathy attempt.  Not Sure.

[LoneWolf]

Based on special effect I would not use the AVAD.  A persons dream self is a mental construction built by the person dreaming.  You are attacking them in their own mind not yours.  The entire world is of their construction which you can change because of your power.   That is my view but as GM you are free to do as you wish. 

[Tech]

Okay, you have thought it out. A few questions: is this power for a player character? Do you intend to use this power to cause damage? If not, what practical effect will it have?

 

This is a similar question to the Time Stop power: what do you intend to do with the power? Cause damage, move things around while time is stopped, run away, etc?