Progenitor Idea (or Someone Talk Some Sense Back into Me)

[Phoenix]

Alright the current "End Goal Ideas" of my Champions campaign is getting out of control in my head (no rush I'm only at about step two or three out of ten in actual game play) but the ideas keep coming. 

 

Backing up a bit before I post: 
Current heroes consist of: 
-  An armed martial artist immortal knight from Camelot era wales.
-  An electric based teleporting energy projector, great-grandson of Zeus.
-  A Chaos driven (both in power and personality) teenage magic user.
-  And a soul of a distant star/sun given human form flying brick/energy projector, thanks to the actions of the chaotic magic user.

 

Events so far: Keep in mind there wasn’t a real plan in the beginning, this was more of a between “D&D” campaigns filler game that is now entering year two. I've been pulling chunks from 3rd Edition's "Wrath of the Seven Horsemen" (page 12 Servitors of the Ancient Ones), 4th Edition's "Kingdom of Champions" (Page 145 Nuada of the Silver Hand & page 179 The Lyonesse). Stealing villains from from “Enemies - The International File” and “European Enemies” Plus I'm mixing in some of Lord Liaden's old ideas. 

 

The game is based in western Europe, Early main baddies are a pair of Demon lairs in Paris, France (not at odds with each other more akin to the Sith Rule of Two). They have been doing what Demon.org does; opening Extra-Dimensional portals to gain power. This has led to the awakening of Nuada of the Silver Hand, freeing of Nimue, and the attention of Merlin the Lyonesse computer.  There have been a few side villains. An Anti-tech terrorist, a duo of gambling themed bank robbers, a “Just looking for a fight” solar themed a-hole villain, and a duel with Black Paladin aided by Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (I love Hunted). As of last session In a 4-way fight between the Senior Demon Morbain, Nimue the Blood Queen, Nuada of the Silver Hand and the PC’s.

 

Yes I’m “That GM”, my players are now stuck in what to do “choice paralysis”.

 

The new main baddie has become Nimue (now inspired by Milla Jovovich’s Nimue) who intends to get revenge on the Lyonesse who imprisoned her in Circa 400 AD. Ref: "Kingdom of Champions"

 

So the mid to late game baddie is going to be related to the Elder Worm Empire (Not Slug). By  way of “Wrath of the Seven Horsemen” and continued problems with Demon. This will most likely lead to a slightly Galactic Champions theme, I just know they are going to steal the Norwegian Saucer from the ancient ones. 

 

In response to this I’m planning on introducing some Progenitor issues. Using ideas from Lord Liaden's thoughts on Danu Ref: "Kingdom of Champions" and the information discovered on the circa 100,000 BC war between the Empyrean/Progenitor versus the Elder Worms, I’m designing an abandoned Progenitor colony. 

The really crazy end game idea that is rattling around in my head is the possibility that the PC’s may gain the attention of one of the few remaining Progenitors that may show up not as an enemy but rather a plot device/wisdom of the ancients type session. Now out of all the Progenitor information scattered throughout official sources, here on forums and fan-based web-sites: all I’m really getting is that the Progenitors are basically gone.  One note that stuck with me is that the Progenitors are loosely the parents of the old gods. To me that translates as Titans (Movie Wrath of the Titans) or The Frost Giant Ymir who is stated out in the 4th edition “Champions Universe”, Now my brain is stuck on this idea: Something akin to Galactus/Marvel’s Celestials type encounter as the “Last Progenitor”
 

Any thoughts as to my ramblings?

Thanks Folks.

[Lord Liaden]

That's a lot to digest. I'll need more time to give a thorough response.

 

In the meantime, I can tell you that the most information about the Progenitors can be found in Champions Beyond. Let me offer you a few highlights.

 

Scions of an ancient, very advanced and enlightened race, for millions of years the Progenitors have studied the rise of life and intelligence in the Milky Way Galaxy. What they call their Great Mission is not only to promote the evolution of sapient species, but to guide their development so that wisdom and compassion will ultimately prevail over hatred and fear. Many races have had their prehistory and genetics studied and altered by the Progenitors, including Humanity. Humans' superior potential for developing super-powers was inserted into their genetic code by the Progenitors. They also evolved proto-humans into the superpowered Empyrean race who co-exist with Humans on Earth.

The Progenitors continue to conduct new experiments and periodically monitor previous ones, but very few beings alive today are aware of the full scope of their activities, or have even heard of them. They're very secretive, and practically impossible for less-advanced beings to perceive unless they wish it. The Progenitors may be concerned that knowledge of their actions will compromise the results of their experiments. At least one early project of "uplifting" a race to sapience developed such biological and social flaws that the Progenitors wiped out the species as irredeemable. This example highlights that while the Progenitors' goals are ultimately benevolent, they're capable of great ruthlessness in the name of the greater good. They're also not infallible, or even always in accord -- occasionally a Progenitor has disputed the Great Mission and chosen a different path.

While not stated in CB, it would not be unreasonable to assume a Progenitor might want to perform some "followup" experiments on one of their subjects, such as Humanity, which could lead to the origin of a superhuman. They might also intervene if they discover an outside force tampering with or threatening one of their projects.

The Progenitors long ago transcended mortality and the need for physical bodies. They exist as pure energy, although they can resume corporeal form at will, in whatever shape they choose. Only a few dozen of them remain, most still engrossed in the Great Mission.

 

In the official setting the Progenitors are actually much older than the Elder Worm race, and did not war against them directly -- the Worm's eons-long rivals for control of the galaxy were the Malvans. You are of course free to change that for your own games.

 

What you describe does give me a few additional thoughts, though. Referring back to Champions Beyond, what is now the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter was once a planet, inhabited by a sapient botanical (plant) race called the Phytians, who were also the subjects of Progenitor experiments. By the time they'd achieved a level of civilization comparable to 20th Century Earth, one of their supervillainous scientists discovered some Progenitor devices, and attempted to use them to blackmail his world into submission to him. But he didn't truly understand the fantastically advanced tech, and shattered his planet.

 

As CB notes, it's possible that some relics of the Phytians are hidden in the asteroid belt, as well as a few Progenitor artifacts. If you want to arrange a space-borne encounter with a Progenitor, that would seem the likeliest spot for it to happen.

 

I have some thoughts regarding the Elder Worm, and Old Gods, but I need sleep right now. I'll try to revisit this topic some time tomorrow.

[Phoenix]

Yea, I've been snowed in for a bit, plus I was on my third cup of coffee as I rambled on.

 

I have the Champions Beyond pdf I think the reference to the war between Empyrean and the Elder Worms came from that book or maybe Monster Island. All I remember without a lot hunting is the Empyreans managed to drive the Elder Worms from Earth or killed them, Slug and company ended up in that tomb where Mike Perkins was transformed. The Malvan/Worm war was hundreds of thousands of years before, according to my notes (~500,000 to ~270,000 BC) I look forward to your thought Liaden.

[Lord Liaden]

On the above front, the Empyreans did give covert aid to their human cousins when they (or I guess I should say, we ) overthrew our Elder Worm masters, around 100,000 years ago. The impression I got is that it was less of an open war for the Empyreans, and more of a resistance/sabotage operation. Humans also benefited from the aid of our "proto-gods," supernatural beings created out of our collective imagination. Ymir from 4E Champions Universe could date from that era. Since the Worm need hot and moist conditions to survive, a god of cold and ice would be a natural being to imagine opposing them.

 

Champions Beyond notes a few worlds in space which still have Elder Worm survivors, as well as some of their enslaved or created servant races, notably the Thane, if you want space encounters to involve them. The Prime and its ilk from Wrath of the Seven Horsemen would easily fit as their servants, and would explain the difference in reproduction between them and the Worm.

 

Since you want Nimue to be summoning "extra-dimensional entities," beings from the Qliphoth would make for the easiest tie-in to both the Elder Worm and DEMON. There are several options there. The Kings of Edom are of course the classic example, although perhaps rather obvious and overdone. The gods of the Elder Worm, as mentioned in CB, would also be a logical option. Personally, I'd lean toward the mysterious "Presences Beyond," which empowered Sharna-Gorak the Destroyer who brought about the Atlantean Cataclysm. These are explicitly the same beings who are the patrons of Shadow Destroyer in the modern era (see Champions Villains Volume One), so they have a history of granting knowledge and power in exchange for sacrifice.

 

One other tidbit about Champions Universe history might be worth considering. During the ancient Turakian Age, the island nation of Thûn worshiped five unique gods who were not the same as other gods of Men. They were in fact Elder Worm, of such tremendous magical power that they could not be destroyed with the other Worms, but could only be imprisoned deep within the Earth. The Thûnese sought the means to free their gods, believing they'd be rewarded. There's no mention of what happened to those creatures over the intervening millennia, but Takofanes' own prison survived to the modern era... (The Turakian Age source book describes Thûn and its gods.)

 

This is in no way official, but I've long suspected that the gods of Thûn might be the same "Old Gods of Earth" worshiped by the Dark Druid cult and its leader, Cairngorm (Champions Villains Volume Three). Just a thought to play around with.

[DShomshak]

I'm sure the outlined plot can work, and probably work well. The only advice I'd offer, based on my experience and the other (and better) GMs in my group, is: Don't overplan. Develop the characters, locations, Bases, and other resources you think you'll need, but keep the actual storylines loose so the players can change them through the PCs' actions.

 

Possibly have DEMON, Nimue, or other Big Bad attempting some other villainous plot that the PCs can thwart, but the villains accidentally set something bigger in motion that leads to the Progenitor-related endgame. It's as much a surprising plot twist to the bad guys as to the heroes.

 

Players often miss the plot cues you dangle in front of them, especially when you think you've made them especially obvious. If the players won't proactively follow the leads you've given, or can't decide which villain to pursue first, prep a few villainous plans for the PCs to react to, and hope you can tie them in later.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Steve]

Another thing to consider. Sometimes the players suggest things during table talk that turn out to be much better than what the GM had planned, so don’t be shy about stealing their ideas if they’re good ones.

 

I’m wondering now if the Progenitors had a hand in crafting Faerie. It would be wild if they were somehow its architects and now reside deep within it conducting experiments there as a form of test bed before trying things in the universe. The Dragon chained in humanity’s collective subconscious could be a fallen Progenitor.

[Lord Liaden]

That's a really intriguing suggestion. The Dragon's origin being a mystery, it's not impossible; although IMO justifying that would require a major paradigm shift from what's been officially revealed about the CU. But for one's own campaign, why not? 🙃

[Phoenix]

OK some clarifications:

The only side doing any summoning is Demon (because well Demon), who opened a portal to the home of the Fomori, hence Nuada's involvement. The two morbains are necromancy based not really summoners though both have unluck.

Nimue only wants revenge against the Lyonesse for imprisoning her for roughly 1600+ years because her actions during that Camelot debacle. Otherwise her goal is retirement as a normal human, food and friendship are things she has missed greatly.

Nimue's Prison was not some horrible Qliphothic place it is/was a hybrid of "Pathfinder's First World" and "Champions in 3-D's Fantasy World". To which the player have decided it's a great place to have a base now. <sigh> I've been utilizing elements Turakian Age Sourcebook for that.

 

The existence of the Lyonesse and Nuada (who Nimue f*ed up, in order to collect his sword & hand), are so far the only Progenitor reference (the term progenitor hasn't even come up beyond my GM notes). I have a Progenitor themed encounter for later if events go in that direction (ancient aliens conspiracy). No actual Progenitors just an earlier version of Nuada dating back to 100,000 BC, (pre-egyptian themed). I'm not truly planning  on any larger Progenitor events unless the player's really push for it.

 

The Elder Worm involvement are so far going to be limited to the concepts from Wrath of the Seven Horsemen. So no additional material needed, except for some 100,000 BC archology of which I have found plenty and cthulhu fhtagn based object names. Yes I've been conversing with the creature from the shower drain about this  

 

When I said things could go galactic, it's only because the alien PC wants to go check up on her "people planet" keep in mind from her point of view: last month she was the semi-conscious soul of a star 400 LY away. Also two of the other characters have a 0-point value burning curiosity type personality.

 

As for my GMing experience: I've been running D&D games since 1979, Champions since '82. I steal ideas from everything and everyone. As far as over prepping I have two old hard drives with nothing but champions material filling them.

 

Well g'night y'all. And thank you very much for the input and ideas.