Questions on END and STR

[Vorvodoss]

Hey all, I've kind of asked this question before but it's the one I'm still kind of confused on and can't find in the book.

 

OK...STR has an END cost listed for it. I just want to verify that this cost applies to actually using the STR bonus to HA, HKA, and Melee weapons (especially for FH). If the player chooses NOT to use his STR bonus to damage, he may do so and not spend the END.

 

Is this about right?

[Fuzzy Gnome]

Yes. The only other thing is that if the weapon has a STR Minimum, you have to pay END for that much strength or take the penalty.

I've read something on these boards about requiring a minimum 1 END to make a combat maneuver, but I don't know if it's a rule.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Yes, it is a rule that any Combat Maneuver requires a minimum of 1 END (H5E, page 286, third paragaph).

 

If you use your STR for any purpose (including wielding a weapon with a STR Min or adding damage to an attack), then you pay END for your STR. However, you only pay END for your STR once per Phase, no matter how many uses it might apply to during that Phase.

[Vorvodoss]

However, you only pay END for your STR once per Phase, no matter how many uses it might apply to during that Phase.

Ok, but what if you made two attacks during the phase (a la two-weapon fighting, etc.) and you want your strength bonus to apply to both? Do you pay the END cost for each?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Originally posted by Vorvodoss

Ok, but what if you made two attacks during the phase (a la two-weapon fighting, etc.) and you want your strength bonus to apply to both? Do you pay the END cost for each?

No. Again, you only pay END for STR once per Phase.

 

For example, let's say I have a SPD of 5 and I act on Phase 3. On my DEX in Phase 3, I do a half-move Leap (which uses STR). Since I've applied as much STR as I can to my leap (in order to move my full half-move distance), I pay, say 5 END (assuming a 50 STR in a superhero game). With my other half-Phase action, I punch someone. I don't have to pay the END for my STR again, because I've already used my STR to leap this Phase. Later in the same Phase, I get Grabbed. I can immediately make an attempt to shrug off the Grab using my Casual STR. Again, this costs me no additional END, because I've already paid END for my STR this Phase.

 

No matter how many ways you use STR in a single Phase, you only pay the END for the STR once.

[Vorvodoss]

I can immediately make an attempt to shrug off the Grab using my Casual STR.

 

Ah, but you hit on something here. If you, say, Leap as per the ability using your STR to do so, you spend END to accomplish the feat. But then, when you swing your axe or throw a punch, you shouldn't get the extra damage based on STR. You say here that you can the use your Casual STR. That means that you have already spent your END to take advantage of your STR and cannot do it again, thereby negating the need or option to spend more END to tap into your "extra" STR.

[Lord Liaden]

Except that Casual STR is a 0 Phase Action; a character can perform other actions after it, including moving and even attacking.

 

Check the last paragraph on p. 283 of the 5E rulebook - it specifies how Casual STR can be used, as well as other uses of STR. Derek has it right: you can use your Casual STR in addition to your regular STR in a Phase, even multiple times, and still only pay the END for STR once in that Phase. That's true of everything you use your STR for, no matter how many uses would fit into a Phase.

[Vorvodoss]

I'm gonna review the rules on the page you cited but here's my point as far as gming goes. You get a bonus for strength (say, a STR 17 would get a 2d6 bonus to damage with HA's). You hit your opponent using all your STR bonus, spending your END (1, I believe). In the same Phase, you are forced to resist being pushed off a cliff. You can use your casual STR (a no-cost, 0-Phase action) but you could no longer call upon extra STR (represented by your END cost and bonus) to do so, having already spent your STR on your HA. Other circumstances come to mind but this one makes my point ok.

 

I have to go out to dinner but will review the rule and get back you guys on my thoughts. Thanks for taking notice of my question and helping me understand it from all angles. Thanks bunches!

[MarioTani]

I'm gonna review the rules on the page you cited but here's my point as far as gming goes. You get a bonus for strength (say, a STR 17 would get a 2d6 bonus to damage with HA's). You hit your opponent using all your STR bonus, spending your END (1, I believe). In the same Phase, you are forced to resist being pushed off a cliff. You can use your casual STR (a no-cost, 0-Phase action) but you could no longer call upon extra STR (represented by your END cost and bonus) to do so, having already spent your STR on your HA. Other circumstances come to mind but this one makes my point ok.

 

No as per FRED 283, it's not a matter of the bonus spent,. it's an ecception.

 

The normal rule is:

"you pay END for every action you make"

 

The rules for casual strenght (FRED 283) and for strenght (FRED 20) clearly state an exception to teh normale rule:

"no matter how many times you use your strenght you only pay one time for it at the maximum cost you've used"

 

To clarify it (even to me, my definition is a little crappy ):

1) Joe Fast in one of his phase combines the following attacks in a single multipower a 6d6 EB

and a 3d6 Drain.

He spend END as listed:

EB 6d6 = 30 AP -> 3 END

Drain 3d6 = 30 AP -> 3 END

 

Total END: 6

 

2) Later on Joe Fast uses it's new EB, a EB 3d6 Autofire, for three shots

His AP are 37,5 -> 37

With an End Cost of 4 END per shot

3 shots are so 12 END

 

3) Joe Fast uses Martial Throw and his HA for 2d6 More of N Damage, let us say his strenght is 15, but later on in this same phase he has to abort to Martial Block an attack:

Supposing a still opponent we have 3 (STR) + 2 (HA) = 5d6 of DMG and an END cost of 3 (STR) + 1 (HA) = 4 END, when he Blocks he spends an additional 1 END for a total in the phase of 5 END

 

4) Joe Fast has taken an autofire naked advantage on his STR 15, Autofire for a net 7 AP and 1 END, it uses it as above for three strikes.

Every strike deals 3d6 N Dmg, but for Autofiring it he has to spend the cost of the naked advantage for every use so it's a flat: 3 (STR) + 3 (3 strike in autofire) = 6 END

the Autofire costs 7, if he wanted to get ridden ofthe extra cost he could make it Red END (0) bringing it's AP at 15, but it's END to 0.

 

Now suppose that Joe Fast was grabbed by a child, obviously mind controlled by the enemy, and he wanted to fre himself before making any of the previous attacks his Endurance would change as follows:

 

1) He has not used any strenght in the action so he has to pay for it's casual strenght, the value of his CasualSTR is 7 and so he has to spend 1 END

2) Just the same as 1

3) Joe will pay the full STR-based END for the manuever so the use of Casual-STR does not mean any additionaly END expense

4) Just the same as 3

[Killer Shrike]

Derek gave you the full scoop, but just to clarify, think of your STR as being a non-Persistent Constant Power and you wont be too far off mechanically.

 

You pay END for it each phase that you use it, up to the amount that you do use it (minumum of 1 END for STR based attacks), but once X amoung of STR is "on" for the Phase, its on and does not have to be paid for again. You would only have to may more END for STR if you were not already using all of your STR and subsequently used additional STR over and beyond what you had already used and paid END for that phase.

 

So think of END paid as an ON switch for X amount of STR per Phase; once youve pade the END for X STR you can use that X STR anyway you can think of following the normal limitations on the number of Actions you can take per Phase.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Vorvodoss

I'm gonna review the rules on the page you cited but here's my point as far as gming goes. You get a bonus for strength (say, a STR 17 would get a 2d6 bonus to damage with HA's). You hit your opponent using all your STR bonus, spending your END (1, I believe). In the same Phase, you are forced to resist being pushed off a cliff. You can use your casual STR (a no-cost, 0-Phase action) but you could no longer call upon extra STR (represented by your END cost and bonus) to do so, having already spent your STR on your HA. Other circumstances come to mind but this one makes my point ok.

 

I agree that in this case you could not use your full STR after attacking someone with a HA - but only because that's an Attack Action, after which you can't take any action that's more than 0 Phase. All the uses of STR before that still require only a single expenditure of END. For example, a character could use Casual STR to break free of someone's restraining grip, Leap a Half Move to close with an opponent, punch the opponent, then resist being shoved backward by the opponent's counterblow using Casual STR, and all of that would require only one payment of END for the most STR used.

 

I can see why you might find that illogical, but as far as I can tell that's the rule. You should feel free to change it for your own games if it bothers you, though.