The Old World

[Midhir]

Currently I'm using Fred and FH to put a group through the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Campaign, The Enemy Within. As I convert the NPCs, magic items and spells I'll be posting them a website I'm working on (FH Project). I'll post any updates to the site here to let anyone know who might be interested in the material. All material will be in HD v2 format for easy download and reuse along with the write ups posted on the site.

 

The site should be up soon and I've hosted the first session so there will be a few NPCs ready to put up soon.

[Eosin]

Loking forward to it. THere are too few FH sites out there.

[tkdguy]

I'm looking forward to it too. I'm a recent convert to the Old World, but I've used a modified version for my campaign (currently in limbo).

[irishspy]

Snotlings rule!

 

I'll look forward to seeing this. I'm an old-time fan of WFRP and I'd like to see how Hero can be adapted to its gritty, low personal magic feel.

[Midhir]

Well I've run my second session so once I have the website finished I'll be able to put up all the NPCs for first Adventure in the Enemy Within Campaign.

[Killer Shrike]

Hehe, I was just re-reading Restless Dead and paging thru Death on the Reik last night and extended my world map in one area as a reasonably close parallel to the Old World. Ive got a stack of WHFRPG material that I can grep in case the PCs stray (or are lead) in that direction.

 

The only problem with the WHFRPG material is the heavy influence of Chaos and Chaos cults, but with a bit of ingenuity the more egregious bits can be filtered out.

 

Im also planning to revisit my old simple WHFRPG to HERO System conversion and give it the full-on treatment.

 

I dont plan to need it for my campaign for at least a few months, but I need to work on it in the background so I have enough material to "pull" or "push" influences into the ongoing campaign.

 

The old WH material was the best. The level of detail and flavor injected into the supplements was staggering. Granted, the plot lines are a bit simple or downright silly, but theres a lot of grist for the old mill to be found there.

[Midhir]

I've made an Excel Spreadsheet to do basic WFRP stat conversions to HERO. I'm still tweaking it a bit but here is the first draft.

 

I've combined the Low & High Fantasy Excel sheet and added an average of the 2 to create a Medium setting.

[tkdguy]

So far so good on your conversin chart.

 

What I'd really like to see is the description of each country. I know a bit about The Empire and Bretonnia; I know next to nothing about Kislev, Estaalia, and Tilea.

 

Some people have written stuff about Norsca, Albion, Cathay, Nippon, and Araby. Maybe those sites can help you with your project.

[Killer Shrike]

Heres the chart I use to do WHFRPG Conversions into the HERO System:

WARHAMMER FRPG TO HERO SYSTEM STAT CONVERSION by Killer Shrike
HERO System		Warhammer
STR	=	Sx5
DEX	=	(I+DX)/5
CON	=	Tx5
BOD	=	W+4
INT	=	(INT/5)+5
EGO	=	(COOL+WP)/5
PRE	=	(LD+FEL)/5
COM	=	USER DEFINED
SPD	=	Figured + (A-1)
Other Figured	=	Figured as normal
OCV HtH Bonuses	=	*WS/5 - Figured OCV=HtH Levels
OCV Ranged Bonuses	=	*BS/5 - Figured OCV=Ranged Levels
Run	=	M+2
*Combine into All Combat Levels where possible.
I.e. -- WS 46 BS 36 DEX 39 INIT 49 = 16 DEX, Base OCV 5;
WS 46/5 = 9 - 5 = +4 HtH; BS 36/5 = 7 - 5 = +2 Ranged; thus +2 All Combat and +2 HtH Levels

[Angaros]

The Excel sheet is nice Midhir, but your Tables tab has a small error. It says that a Toughness of 4 equals a CON of 19. I guess it should be 10, right?

[Midhir]

Heh, whoops, thats what happens when I work on it at 3am in the morning. Thanks for the catch. I'll make the fix. I think I'm just going to use the same table numbers as STR for CON as they seem to hit the same range.

 

KS your conversions work great if your running a 100+ point game since it is likely that in more advanced characters will end up with above normal characteristic max on some attributes. I looked at some of the standard archetypes from the empire such as Aldorf Army Sergeant or Cavalry Officer and used them as standards for above average characters (higher attributes in the 15 to 18 range).

 

Cavalry Officer

WFRP

M:4 WS:65 BS:50 S:5 T:5 W:13 I:50 A:3 Dex:49 Ld:69 Int:39 Cl:69 WP:40 Fel:50

HERO (KS Conv)

STR: 25 DEX: 20 CON: 25 BODY: 17 INT: 13 EGO: 22 PRE: 24

SPD: 4

Running: 6, HTH CLs: 6, Ranged CLs:3

HERO (Midhir Conv)

STR: 15 DEX: 15 CON: 15 BODY: 18 INT: 10 EGO 14 PRE: 17 COM: 13

PD: 5 ED: 4 SPD:4

Running: 6, HTH CLs: 4, Ranged CLs: 2

 

The group I play with likes to start at round 50 to 60 points.

But I also found that with straight conversion on some stats resulted in rather low scores since some attributes seem to range around 25 to 50 which I look at as 8 to 12 or maybe 8 to 15. I'm still tweaking it a bit (Constitution comes over a little low right now). So I relized I needed some conditions on the conversion to weight the attributes in a certian range.

 

I'm updating my original conversion and attaching an excel final with KS's formulas. As a note I also use formula to figure Run for characters (I don't like preset characteristics), I base it on STR and DEX (STR/5 + DEX/5). So I put in a condition that if WFRP Movement is more use that if not use the figured.

[Midhir]

KS's Conversions (High Fantasy)

[Midhir]

My Conversions (Low Fantasy)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Midhir I'm updating my original conversion and attaching an excel final with KS's formulas. As a note I also use formula to figure Run for characters (I don't like preset characteristics), I base it on STR and DEX (STR/5 + DEX/5). So I put in a condition that if WFRP Movement is more use that if not use the figured.

Well, its been a while (over 6 years) since I did those so Im not intimately familiar with my logic on it any more, but at the time when I did it I sat down and coverted over about 30 characters selected from several of the old-school Power Behind The Throne modules and a few scratch built characters with between starting and three or four careers.Some of the extremes map out a little oddly and you loose a little granularity with the straight 1 stat times 5's, but thats normal in any conversion; the middle ranges all map out cleanly. Also, its ok to go over NCM; it happens all the time in HEROs. Theres also more ways to model things in the HERO System, so some of the more extreme characters you need to apply a little lateral thinking to and essentially say -- ok, this guy is supposed to be really good at "X"; in the HERO System theres a better mechanic for that.Baseline S & T are 2 IIRC, which corresponds closely enough to 10 in the HERO System. It tops out at 5 from most characters, and a 5 STR is pretty high and a 5 T is pretty high. Normal humans range up to 4 in both normally which maps nicely to 20 in the HERO System at the same x5 rate as 2 S and 2 T.The human line on pg 222 of the WHFRPG Bestiary has a profile of:

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	DEX	LD	INT	CL	WP	FL
3	25	34	2	2	7	50	1	43	24	29	24	43	43

Which works out to: STR: 10 DEX: 19 CON: 10 BODY: 10 INT: 15 EGO: 13 PRE: 13 SPD: 3; 5" Run; no extra CSLs. Movement looks a little wonky; in WHFRPG M x 4 = # yds/ 8 second turn. So a person w/ M 3 (humans ranged btwn 3-5 M) moved 12 yds per 8 seconds, which is roughly 10" per 8 seconds in the HERO System or 15" every 12. Since the SPD in the HERO System affects movement and the avg shmoe has a 2 SPD, that works out to 7.5" of Running for a pokey M3 human. Thus I went conservative on the Run going for a 5" to 7" spread in the HERO System for humans, which seems reasonable. Most humans have M 4 either straight or via Fleet of Foot, so it works out most of the time.Mellory from 323, a sample starting character with the Ranger career, has:

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	DEX	LD	INT	CL	WP	FL
4	30	36	3	3	6	37	1	28	29	26	35	34	36

Which works out to: STR: 15 DEX: 13 CON: 15 BODY: 10 INT: 10 EGO: 14 PRE: 13 SPD: 2; 6" Run; +2 All Combat, +1 RangedAn Ogre from pg 234 has:

M	WS	BS	S	T	W	I	A	DEX	LD	INT	CL	WP	FL
6	33	17	4	5	17	30	2	18	18	14	18	29	10

Which works out to: STR: 20 DEX: 10 CON: 25 BODY: 21 INT: 8 EGO: 9 PRE: 6 SPD: 3; 8" Run; +4 HtH LevelsThe PRE is obviously wonky, but thats bcs WHFRPG handles causing fear by a seperate mechanic, called "FEAR", which the OGRE has, so lets call that an even +20 PRE Only Vs Creatures Less Than 10' Tall (-1/2) for an effective 26 PRE.Youre always going to run into a few oddities in a hard-wired conversion, but if it gets close an editorial pass can quickly correct any incongruities. Im not saying its perfect by anymeans, but for a quick approximation it's worked out pretty well.Heres a character I did last night roughly based off of Kurt Shultz on page 76 of The Restless Dead -- I didnt do his equipment, including the Spell Ring bcs they arent appropriate to what I plan to use him for, and a spiced him up with some HERO-isms after bringing him over, but the initial pull from WHFRPG just took a few minutes by applying the conversion sceme I use:

Combat Information Page Character Name: Kurtzen Kardenssen Alternate Identities: Player Name: CHARACTERISTICS CHARACTER IMAGE Val Char Base Points Total Roll Notes 20 STR 10 10 20 13- HTH Damage 4d6 END [2] 17 DEX 10 21 17 12- OCV 6 DCV 6 20 CON 10 20 20 13- 13 BODY 10 6 13 12- 11 INT 10 1 11 11- PER Roll 11- 12 EGO 10 4 12 11- ECV: 4 12 PRE 10 2 12 11- PRE Attack: 2d6 10 COM 10 0 10 11-                             5 PD 4 1 5   5 PD (0 rPD) 5 ED 4 1 5   5 ED (0 rED) 3 SPD 2.7 3 3   Phases: 4, 8, 12 10 REC 8 4 10   40 END 40 0 40   40 STUN 33 7 40     6" Running 6 0 6"     2" Swimming 2 0 2"     4"/2"" Leaping 4 0 4" 80 Total Characteristics Points EXPERIENCE POINTS Total earned: 25 Spent: 25 Unspent: 0 Base Points: 50 Disad Points: 100 Total Points: 175 MOVEMENT Type Total Run (6) 6" [12" NC] Swim (2) 2" [4" NC] H. Leap (4") 4" V. Leap (2") 2" APPEARANCE Hair Color:  Red Eye Color:  Green Height:  6' 9" Weight:  270 lbs Description:

MARTIAL ARTS MANEUVERS Cost  Maneuver 4 Martial Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 35 STR to Disarm 4 Martial Dodge: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort 4 Martial Escape: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 40 STR vs. Grabs 4 Martial Block: 1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort 5 Offensive Strike: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, 9d6 Strike 4 +1 HTH Damage Class(es) 2 Weapon Element: Blades, Clubs, Empty Hand 27 Total Martial Arts Cost DEFENSES Type Amount Notes Physical Defense 5 Current BODY: Res. Phys. Defense 0   Energy Defense 5 Current END: Res. Energy Defense 0   Mental Defense 0 Current STUN: Power Defense 0   COMBAT INFORMATION OCV: 6 DCV: 6   Combat Skill Levels: +1 Overall , +1 with All Combat , +2 with Offensive Strike COMBAT MANEUVERS Maneuver Phase OCV DCV Effect Block 1/2 +0 +0 Block, abort Brace 0 +2 1/2 +2 vs. Range Mod. Disarm 1/2 -2 +0 Can disarm Dodge 1/2 -- +3 Abort, vs. all attacks Grab 1/2 -1 -2 Grab two limbs Grab By 1/2 -3 -4 Move and Grab Haymaker 1/2* +0 -5 +4 DC attack damage Move By 1/2 -2 -2 STR/2 + v/5 Move Through 1/2 -v/5 -3 STR + v/3 Set 1 +1 +0 Ranged Attacks only Strike 1/2 +0 +0 STR or weapon Martial Disarm 1/2 -1 +1 Disarm; 35 STR to Disarm Martial Dodge 1/2 -- +5 Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort Martial Escape 1/2 +0 +0 40 STR vs. Grabs Martial Block 1/2 +2 +2 Block, Abort Offensive Strike 1/2 -2 +1 9d6 Strike COMBAT MODIFIERS Range 0-4 5-8 9-16 17-32 33-64 65-128 RMOD 0 -2 -4 -6 -8 -10

TALENTS Cost  Name 10 Deadly Blow: +1d6 (any circumstances, any HTH weapon) 10 Total Talents Cost

SKILLS
Cost	Name
	Human
10	1) Human Adaptibility: +1 Overall
5	2) Human Diversity: CuK: Machtig (INT-based) 13-
5	3) Human Work Ethic: PS: Sailor (INT-based) 13-
	Warrior
1	1) AF: Shield Proficiency
8	2) +1 with All Combat
4	3) +2 with Offensive Strike
2	4) AF: Medium Armor Proficiency
3	5) Fast Draw 12-
4	6) WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons
3	7) Tracking 11-
3	8) Stealth 12-
1	9) TF: Large Rowed Boats
3	Linguist
0	1) Language: Machtig (idiomatic; literate) (5 Active Points)
2	2) Language: Travenspenova (completely fluent; literate, Machtig Similarity) (3 Active Points)
3	3) Language: Undari (completely fluent; literate) (4 Active Points)
1	4) Language: Vorgaanese (fluent conversation; literate, Travenspenova Similarity)
58	Total Skills Cost

DISADVANTAGES
Cost	Disadvantage
5	Distinctive Features: Human (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses; Not Distinctive In Some Cultures)
15	Enraged: When reduced to Half Body or Half Stun (Uncommon), go 11-, recover 11-
15	Hunted: Raevoring Clan 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Limited Geographical Area, Harshly Punish)
5	Money: Poor
20	Normal Characteristic Maxima
15	Psychological Limitation: Overconfidence (Very Common, Moderate)
10	Rivalry: Professional (with other Warriors), Rival is More Powerful, Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival, Rival Unaware of Rivalry, Rival is a Group
5	Soc. Lim.: Dark Secret: Raevoring Exile (Occasionally, Major, Not Limiting In Some Cultures)
10	Unluck: 2d6
100	Total Disadvantages Cost

Height: 6' 9"	Hair: Red
Weight: 270 lbs	Eyes: Green
Appearance:
Personality:
Quote:
Background: Was a Raevoring of some ability, followed Torgath Torethssen into exile after Torgath slew Gunnar's brother by striking him in the back in a drunken brawl a decade ago. Serving as translator for Tzoruul cultists sent into the Vold. Not initiated into the Tzoruul worship and largely unaware of that whole angle.
Powers/Tactics:
Campaign Use:

Character created with Hero Designer (version 2.25)

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Midhir

Cavalry Officer

WFRP

M:4 WS:65 BS:50 S:5 T:5 W:13 I:50 A:3 Dex:49 Ld:69 Int:39 Cl:69 WP:40 Fel:50

HERO (KS Conv)

STR: 25 DEX: 20 CON: 25 BODY: 17 INT: 13 EGO: 22 PRE: 24

SPD: 4

Running: 6, HTH CLs: 6, Ranged CLs:3

HERO (Midhir Conv)

STR: 15 DEX: 15 CON: 15 BODY: 18 INT: 10 EGO 14 PRE: 17 COM: 13

PD: 5 ED: 4 SPD:4

Running: 6, HTH CLs: 4, Ranged CLs: 2

This Cavalry Officer is really butch. With stats that high he can take on most of the monsters in the book. Looks like a 2nd or 3rd career character. I dont think Ive seen that profile before; could I get a Book & Page reference pls? Thanx!

[Midhir]

Its more of a personal preference, over the last 12 years of playing HERO my group likes to play what can be best described as gritty Fantasy Hero. More realistic stats (after playing in the early years with characters that had attributes 18 to 24) to keep the combats edgy and dangerous. So humans that have stats surpassing the NCM that aren't extra ordinary (which a standard cavalry captian would not be) we try to stay away from.

 

Really just a personal prefrence some like the High Fantasy (100 to 150+ characters), others low end Fantasy at least to begin with (50 to 75 characters). Thats why I attached both Excel files to accomidate either.

 

Plus now I can go through and double enter some base characters and see where I can make improvements on my original formulas using yours as a high check.

[Midhir]

The Cavalry Officer is from The Enemy Within + Shadows Over Bogenhafen Warhammer Campaign Book (pg. 24).

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Midhir

The Cavalry Officer is from The Enemy Within + Shadows Over Bogenhafen Warhammer Campaign Book (pg. 24).

I have that one -- let me fetch it.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Midhir

The Cavalry Officer is from The Enemy Within + Shadows Over Bogenhafen Warhammer Campaign Book (pg. 24).

Uh, dude, those are Imperial Guard units. They are all super buff, elite troops. They have very high stat lines.

 

You have to remember that WHFRPG came from WH Fantasy Battles wherein all the elite troops are god-like, particularly the nobles/officers/anything that maps out as a "Character" in the fantasy battles game. The rank & file are no where near as good as that. Empire knights arent 'chumps', they're bad asses.

 

Check out pages 30 thru 33 for a collection of starting adventurers and compare them to the Cavalry Zero. One of the Cavalry Zeroes could mow thru all 6 of the starting characters on a decent day.

[Midhir]

I agree they wouldn't be 50 point NPCs but in my campaign they wouldn't have stats as high as 25. With a 25 they could lift 800kg (smaller trailer). Thats a bit more then buff.

 

There will never be a 100% accuracy in any conversion from one rule set to another. I'm just trying to match up WFRP as close to the kind of campaign I run.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Midhir

I agree they wouldn't be 50 point NPCs but in my campaign they wouldn't have stats as high as 25. With a 25 they could lift 800kg (smaller trailer). Thats a bit more then buff.

 

There will never be a 100% accuracy in any conversion from one rule set to another. I'm just trying to match up WFRP as close to the kind of campaign I run.

25 STR is pretty standard fare in most FH camapaigns. Many warriors that are STR based edge up to it with experience. Also remember that HEROs STR is "lift off the ground and stagger a few feet with it" STR. Plus, all that heavy armor requires a lot of STR in the HERO System to avoid taking ENCUMBRANCE penalties.

 

But, whatever works for you works. It does make your material much harder to use generically however.

[Midhir]

Well its easy enough to convert them both ways. So I'll see how viable it is to do both a low and high fantasy converstion on what I put up.

 

I'm also thinking about making a plugin for HD that will do the conversions automatically and import them into HD. If I ever get it worked out then it would be easy enough to add a filter for different levels of campaign.

[Killer Shrike]

Heres a guy pulling a tractor-trailer.

and a guy lifting a car:

[Midhir]

1. The truck has wheels, I'd be more impressed if he was pulling the same weight without wheels. Its kinna why we invented wheels makes it easier to move greater amounts of weight. I can push my jeep, but I sure as hell can't lift it.

 

2. He is only dead lifting the back end of a little sports car, impressive but not exactly lifting a few feet off the ground (since the whole care isn't off the ground), staggering a few steps, etc.

 

25 STR is 1750 lbs off the ground, thats over 3/4 of a ton.

 

I'm sure your conversion works great for the kinna campaign you play (High Fantasy) but if I used it to convert the WFRP NPCs they would be kicking my 60 pt PCs buts up and down the Reik.

[Midhir]

Max ErnstPlayer: GM

Val	Char	Cost
12	STR	4
11	DEX	3
12	CON	4
12	BODY	4
9	INT	-1
11	EGO	2
10	PRE	0
6	COM	-2
3	PD	1
2	ED	0
3	SPD	9
4	REC	0
24	END	0
24	STUN	0

5" RUN22" SWIM02" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 26

Cost	Power	END
7	Strike to Stun: HKA 1 point (1/2d6 w/STR), +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2) (7 Active Points)	1

Powers Cost: 7

Cost	Martial Arts Maneuver
4	Disarm: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 22 STR to Disarm roll
4	Street Fighting: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 4d6 Strike
4	Dodge Blow: 1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

Martial Arts Cost: 12

Cost	Skill
3	Riding 11-
2	WF: Common Melee Weapons
5	+1 with HTH Combat
9	Penalty Skill Levels: +3 vs. Hit Location modifiers with All Attacks

Skills Cost: 19

Cost	Talent
10	Deadly Blow: +1d6 (any circumstances, any HTH weapon)

Talents Cost: 10

Cost	Equipment	END
2	Heavy Black Leather: Armor (2 PD/2 ED) (6 Active Points); Mass (Normal; -1), OIF (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) [Notes: Like Soft Leather, but thicker, stiffer, and heavier. This looks much less like ordinary clothes than Soft Leather, but may be mistaken for clothes at a distance, in bad light, or if well-made.]
9	Rapier: HKA 1d6, OCV +1 (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (26 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)
6	Dagger: HKA 1d6-1, Range Based On STR (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (17 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 6 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Equipment costs shown above are for reference only, and are not included in Total Cost.

Val	Disadvantages
0	Normal Characteristic Maxima
15	Distinctive Features: Scare down left side of face from forehead to jaw (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

Disadvantage Points: 15

Base Points: 30Experience Required: 29Total Experience Available: 29Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 74

Height: 1.85 m	Hair: Black
Weight: 85.00 kg	Eyes: Blue

Appearance: He never wears any colour other than black, and rarely says anything that does not contain some sort of insult.Personality: He is a mean-looking cold-blooded sadist. Those who know him do their best to stay out of his way.Quote:Why don't you country bumpkins wash the swill off you before you enter a civilised city?Background: Ernst has a reputation around Altdorf as a very accomplished protagonist and a person to be avoided if at all possible. Ernst is a heartless and brutal thug.Powers/Tactics: Campaign Use: