Deriving benefits from unusual sources

[Tywyll]

I'm still in the process of converting some characters and one new issue has struck me.

 

How do you create a power or effect (spell/magic item) that derives a benefit from an ability that benefit is not normally associated with?

 

For instance, you create a zen archery style that relies more on the archer's than on his strength or even Dex. How would you do that?

 

Or you have a magic item that the more Presence a person has, the stronger the item become (in DnD terms, it gives someone's charisma bonus to an effect its not normally tied to).

 

Any ideas? I realize I could create an item/spell/or effect that gave a flat bonus. But I want something that gets better or worse based on the ability of its user/possessor.

[dstarfire]

kind of close

 

How about a variant of the "based on ego combat value" advantage? The value of it would have to be based on how expensive the new stat is compared to the standard. This would work well for your zen archery thing, but not so well for the others.

 

The best I can come up with is to combine an rsr limitation (then build a skill based on the desired stat) with an advantage that would increase the effect according to the level of success (similar to the way autofire works).

 

Or you could just make your own advantages/powers, though that'd be a bit of a headache.

[TAROT]

I would probably build the item in stages:

 

Cheesecake Armour

4rPD/4rED

+2rPD/+2rED (only if COM 15+)

+2rPD/+2rED (only if COM 20+)

+2rPD/+2rED (only if COM 25+)

 

In general, I would ignore it, and just build it as it would work for the character using the item, and if the character improves later, improve the item also. I suppose that it would depend upon how common Aids were in your game or, how likely it was that the item was going to change hands on a regular basis.

 

Chris

[austenandrews]

I'd go with Tarot's method, buying it at max power and limiting it according to the user's pertinent ability. It's the simplest, which usually means the most playable.

 

-AA

[Photon1966]

Increased gain with increased skill

 

I have used the same idea with the magick spells in my game. Things like a 12-15d6 lighting bolt but I built it 4d6+1/point of skill roll was made by. It allows for players who take extra time and or use really good ingredients or other factors to max out the spell but in typical situations they are getting around 8d6 which in my fantasy game is a pretty good blast vs ED. I have used it also for things like t-porting and even protective barriers. I'm at work right now so I don't recall the limit exactly but I think I used -1/2 for the extra dice.

 

Another idea I used in the past with supers was the extra END . 4d6 normal + 2d6 at 2x, then 2d6 at 3x, etc but that was a supers game and fantays can sometimes not work the same way. Just a thought though.

[Tywyll]

I'd go with Tarot's method, buying it at max power and limiting it according to the user's pertinent ability. It's the simplest, which usually means the most playable.

 

Problem is I am trying to set up certain abilities/items that will function the same for different characters. For instance, a 'class ability' (because I am converting from a DnD game) where many people might have the same ability but different stats. Or an item that might get passed around (ie independent limitation). And I can't really wait for xp expenditures to refigure an item or if an undead has an ego or pre drain attack.

[Killer Shrike]

Remember, its best to reason from effects rather than the other way around in the HERO System.

 

Could you post the specifics of what you are trying to convert please?

[TAROT]

If you want to tie it closer to a stat, you could also build it at maximum effect, and put a limitation on it that the user may only access Active Points up to STAT/2, STAT, STAT*2, etc.

 

If it requires a "class ability" to be used, I'd suggest that "Personal Focus" be redefined to include anyone with that ability.

 

Chris

[Markdoc]

One approach is to give the item a skill roll and base it on the CHA or power you wish to be relevant.

 

You can also add the limitation "X per point roll made by: -1/2"

 

Thus a ring of fireballs might have "6d6 EB, area effect, requires a skill roll: based on active points in fire magic, (-1/2), 1d6 per point roll made by (-1/2)"

 

Ifrit the Inflammable with 40 points in fire magic spells has a base roll of 17-. He can use the whole 6d6 almost all of the time.

 

His apprentice Grogan the Glimmer has only 15 points, he can only squeeze a 2d6 fireball out of it most of the time.

 

Bork the barbarian can't use it all: although he wants it anyway, because it's shiny.

 

Strictly speaking, there should be a specific skill to use such powers, but you can easily rule that this is an everyman skill.

 

cheers, Mark

[Tywyll]

Specifics

 

Could you post the specifics of what you are trying to convert please?

 

One is the ability of the Penitant Archer class, in which you get the ability to add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you inflict with your arrows.

 

The other, is from the Mystic Wanderer, in which they add their charisma bonus to their armor class as a sacred bonus.

 

Another would be the Monk's ability to add their Wisdom bonus as a bonus to AC.

 

Now, I realize, the effect of all of these powers is either an increase in DCV or upping the DC. However, since these abilities are tied to a characteristic which can be raised and lowered by buffs and drains, I want the ability to function 'properly' rather than just assigning a static bonus.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Specifics

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

Could you post the specifics of what you are trying to convert please?

 

One is the ability of the Penitant Archer class, in which you get the ability to add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you inflict with your arrows.

Easy to do.

Effect: More Damage

Caveat: Superficially affected by EGO somehow

Caveat 2: Only w/ Arrows

 

Solution: Deadly Blow Variant

 

Power: +1d6 RKA (OIF: Bow of Opportunity (-1/2), Affected By Drains vs EGO (-1/4)); Real Cost: 8 per d6

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

The other, is from the Mystic Wanderer, in which they add their charisma bonus to their armor class as a sacred bonus.

 

Effect: Harder to hit

Caveat: based on PRE somehow

 

Solution: DCV Levels

 

Power: +1 DCV (Affected By Drains vs EGO (-1/4)); Real Cost = 4 pts per +1 DCV

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

Another would be the Monk's ability to add their Wisdom bonus as a bonus to AC.

 

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

Now, I realize, the effect of all of these powers is either an increase in DCV or upping the DC. However, since these abilities are tied to a characteristic which can be raised and lowered by buffs and drains, I want the ability to function 'properly' rather than just assigning a static bonus.

Hmm. The buffing is more difficult to do in a point based system since in effect somebody has to pay for the buff effect, and if the source of the buff isnt they your character has to. I would just drop the concept as being suited for a game mechanic which doesnt realy exist in the HERO System (characteristic-based buffs/bonuses) per se.

 

However, you could just do this:

 

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

One is the ability of the Penitant Archer class, in which you get the ability to add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you inflict with your arrows.

Easy to do.

Effect: More Damage

Caveat: Positively and Negatively affected by EGO somehow

Caveat 2: Only w/ Bows & Arrows

 

Solution: Deadly Blow Variant

 

Power: +1d6 RKA (OIF: Bow of Opportunity (-1/2), Affected By Drains vs EGO (-1/4)); Real Cost: 8 per d6

plus

Power: +1d6 RKA (OIF: Bow of Opportunity (-1/2), Only When EGO Is 5 Pts Above Normal (-2)); Real Cost: 4 per d6

 

Originally posted by Tywyll

The other, is from the Mystic Wanderer, in which they add their charisma bonus to their armor class as a sacred bonus.

 

Effect: Harder to hit

Caveat: Affected Positively and Negatively by PRE

 

Solution: DCV Levels

 

Power: +1 DCV (Affected By Drains vs EGO (-1/4)); Real Cost = 4 pts per +1 DCV

plus

Power: +1 DCV (Only When PRE Is 5 Pts Above Normal (-2)); Real Cost = 2 pts per +1 DCV

 

And for the Monk, same deal, just buy some extra CL only usable when EGO is above normal.

 

Its not very efficient however -- for a few points more you can have the effect on ALL the time, which is preferrable.

[Tywyll]

Thanks for the very efficient breakdown. I appreciate it. Now I'll give it some thought and toss it back to the players and see how they feel about the ability working differently now.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Tywyll

Thanks for the very efficient breakdown. I appreciate it. Now I'll give it some thought and toss it back to the players and see how they feel about the ability working differently now.

No problem. At the risk of shamelessly plugging, you might find it useful to check out my website at:

 

http://www.killershrike.com

 

I have some fairly extensive (though by no means comprehensive) notes on various xD&D tropes and how to handle them in the HERO System, including conversion documents for all of the 3e base PHB Classes.

[Tywyll]

I know... remember, I wrote you... oh, no, wait, that was under my vampirest email account... nevermind. Ahem. Yes, Love your site.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Tywyll

I know... remember, I wrote you... oh, no, wait, that was under my vampirest email account... nevermind. Ahem. Yes, Love your site.

Well, thanx twice then