Tywyll

Yeah, that's pretty much my understanding and way of thinking. HD implies that real cost of pool plus control is "active points" and therefore should fall under any AP cap, which to me at least is clearly wrong (it's real cost vs active points).

I mean, I never do in real life...but this is a game, so... Why wouldn't you? Sleeping is different from getting knocked unconscious. At least I would consider it different. As such you would be getting your recoveries all night and not spending END. I can't see any reason to think you wouldn't be at full.

If you establish a Campaign AP Limit, how do you apply that to a VPP? My understanding is that is should only usually apply to the slots and the Reserve of your AP. But HD calls the real cost of the Pool + Control Cost as the 'Active Points'. So does that mean that the Pool + Control if they were above the AP limit of a campaign would be forbidden? Or should you only look at the Pool? Certainly the examples in Champions 6e seem to indicate that the Pool is the element that must abide by the campaign's AP limit, not the total.

I did read that article a long time ago, it was what got the idea stuck in my head. I will have to dig up that issue to read the other articles! Thank you for pointing me at them! I'm reading your stuff now! Thanks for sharing. I would love to see some of the PCs! It's funny, I was thinking of using The Empress as one of the big bads as well!

This is definitely something I am hoping to do, with some issues like saving a town from a Tornado or massive flood/tsunami. Though, of course, that means I need rules for those things...

Sure, sure, but 'dodge tanks' aren't super viable in rpgs since a single good roll can take them out, especially if the campaigne average for attacks is 16-20d6. He has a power that is +4d6 HA, only with Haymaker, hence the 28d6. And all you have to do is pay attention to the spd chart...once your opponent has gone you are fairly safe to throw one unless they have a super high spd. IF... I didn't include the forcewall because that prohibits his attacks.

They do, but honestly they never talk hard numbers really. And while the character attack values are typically super high, their defenses don't seem to match. Like Defender 3K can shoot 20d6 eb but only has 30rdef/36ndef. Thalya can fire off a 12d6 ap EB but only has 32rdef/44ndef Rampart's main attack seems to be a Haymaker, which will do 28d6 vs his 50 def, meaning 48 on average gets through. Basically most people are stunned by their own attacks. ;( Maybe I am missing something though?

No arguement here! That's my concern, especially at high AP attacks. It is one of my concerns and mitigating it is definitely something I want to do. Damage Reduction is one options. Opal's idea of stun only pinging on the Body that gets through defenses is another idea. I had noticed Champions Now's solution and I was wondering how well that works. It does seem like the stun values would be super high. Like even 10d6 attack vs your typical rDef (say 12-15) would end up with 20 stun. And it would just get worse the higher you go, wouldn't it? I'll admit I haven't played Champions Now so I don't know how well that variant works.

Ah, got it! That makes sense. I will admit, I do like the possibility of being dying while still conscious. Though in all fairness, I can't remember when it happened last. I like the way you think!

No, I get that. I just think after 5 editions with it working the one way, it feels super weird to suddenly work so differently I guess. Like, ka lotto has always been problematic but when you limit stun to x3 it just feels like there is almost no way for Stun to get through most defenses. I think d3+1 will be reasonable without the danger of the x5 spike.

But that would still get stopped by most normal defense right? I mean, if you changed it to 10 r def and 20 n def, that 20 still blocks the 10 stun. Even if you only had 10ndef/10rdef (like making 10 rd resistant) that still stops all that stn. Is that the goal? That's a good point. I guess I just don't like the high spike of x5 honestly, that's the problem.

That's what Session 0's are for, to discuss what sort of characters would figure into such a campaign, whether pvp will be allowed, etc. I'm happy for players to create anti-involvement characters, but I would want them to have some level of wiggle-room, rather than absolutely no under any circumstances. And not every player has to play in every game, and that's okay.

So if you had 10rdef and an extra 20 n def, and were shot for 12body and 36 stun by a killing attack, you would take 2 Body (as normal) and then..6 Stun? That would be ignored because of the 20 n def, right? I mean, I know that normal defenses don't stop a ka but if you have resistant def, you add it to your normal def for stun damage. Thank you! I was thinking of using a slightly reduced lotto, 1d3: 1=x2, 2=x3, 3=x4. I did use that in a 6e game, but I felt like it made stun almost negligible. It worked all right for FH, but I don't know I would want to use it in Champions. I'm not using Reduced Pen, as that still leaves the Thing 'stunnable' by a handgun. I'm just reducing the high end of the stun lotto and the base damage dice of weapons. It does mean that some stun could get through, though I am considering looking at the absolute defense rule that exists in...some book? I don't remember which one.

So this is like 12 perfect dodges? Is that what the NCC represents (it requires someone to attack them)?

It does, but it takes a level of xml knowledge which I lack. I mean, I love the program, but I have to rely on things other people build. I could probably figure it out given enough study, but with job, wife, kid and a group that doesn't play HERO...it's not at the top of my to do list.

This is an absolutely awesome idea! If I ever get to run FH again, I am definitely nicking it!

The instant death rule is a good one. I'm definitely up for that. As for the social implications, that's exactly what I'm interested in exploring. In a world where you are some of the most powerful beings out there, what do you do when wars break out, when politicians attempt to exert authority over you. When you can stop a tin pot dictator before they invade their neighbor or commit an atrocity, do you? That kind of thing. To misquote Cap, if you see something go south, do you sit and wait for someone to give you permission to get involved or do you let it happen? Doesn't that pretty much make killing attacks not do any stun at all unless they are super high? Wouldn't normal def negate any of that Stun? I do like, in general, the idea but I'm trying to figure out how to use it in play. I was thinking of reducing weapon damage so small weapons do 1d6k, medium do 2d6k, large/military weapons do 3d6, and really big weapons (like anti0tank weapons) do 4d6. I think the scales in standard HERO are too high, and vehicles and buildings possess too much def compared to comics and films.

This is one of my concerns. Especially with killing attacks and the Stun lotto. A few things I want to do is to make the world and normals more fragile. So materials and mundanes and non-super vehicles and such will all take x2 damage. This way even a 60 strength super could still take out a normal tank (the kind of stuff you see in comics and cartoons but doesn't really work in HERO because vehicles and material defenses are so high). But I don't want heroes and villains to have to distort the mechanics any further. Do you think things break down at that point because official writers never put defenses very high? Agreed! Players are sneaky and if they have looked at official builds, they tend to build their characters towards those levels rather than ignoring that they are a thing.

This is the problem. You use HD to build a character because it is great and easy. But then you can't export a 'simplified' version. At least I have not seen an export format that does (sadly I have 0 idea on how to build my own).

I've been toying with running a 'Justice League' style campaign for awhile, where the PCs are among the strongest Heroes in the setting. Thinking powers in the 75-100 AP range. Oh, this would be in 5th edition. Anyway, what sort of issues and pitfalls should I be aware of at high powered levels like that? A big part of the campaign will be more about "what do you do with that sort of power" rather than "stop the bank heist" play. It will definitly have a bit of an 'Authority' vibe (with governements being hesitant if not downright antagonistic to supers at that level of power). One issue that seems to pop up in official character builds, often of high powered characters or npcs, is that when people are slinging 18-20d6 EBs around, most of them also cannot 'take' such an attack without being stunned. Like they might have 30 def and 20ish con, so an attack of equivalent power to their own will stun them just about everytime. Damage Reduction seems like a must have power (which I'm not that bothered with if that is the case, just want to make sure I'm reading it right). I was even toying with allowing players to build whatever the wanted with no point contraints (initially) though after the characters are turned in, I would make adjustments. I was considering breaking down certain aspects of builds (strength, spd, movement powers, ranged attacks, defenses, etc) and allow each player to pick one that only their character could have up to 100 points in and everyone else could at most take 75 points in (their secondary focus) and every other catagory would cap around 60. This would allow characters to shine no matter how many points they built their character with. This would allow 'Superman' to take 100 str and maybe 75 in defense, while you could still have 'Cyborg' with 60 str. Obviously extremely limited or edgecase power builds would still be considered (stuff with like 2 or more points of limitations) that could break the caps, albeit in rare circumstances. Anyway, these are my initial thoughts. Any suggestions or advice? Is this a terrible idea?

Did the BoT I ever have an HD pack option? I looked in the store but I only see it as pdf or print, while number 2 does have the HD pack. Also, my HD is back from 2017 I think, I assume that the templates will still work with that version?

Well, you sort of do now! I absolutely would do it that way for some builds. I mean, if we are talking two forms, I literally don't see the difference. Yeah, I'm recommending two steps: Normal/regular power->More Poweful version (who's additional abilities are bought seperately behind OIHID Yeah, that's the origin of the OIHID but HERO has come a long way (as have comics) and it's not necessary to just use it that way (like everything else in Hero). I can easily build Power Person who can, for whatever reason, upgrade to More Power Person. Maybe I had some limitations so I can only be More Power Person for X amount of time or after I'm injured or whatever, meditation, etc. It's soooo much cleaner than messing around with Aid constructs. But has the down side that it only works if there are only two forms.

If you only had one other form, couldn't you just buy it as 'Only in Heroic ID' and default the powered up form as your heroic ID? That seems to me like a clearner way. Goku's multiple forms though would definitely warrent Multiform.

What's wrong with the standard Multipower build? That seems pretty much tailor made for this situation.

Yeah, I thought 60 AP seemed ultra high...especially if there are like 5-10 goons! Does that mean that one hero get's hit with 5-10 attacks, or can you only take damage from a Hazard once per phase?