RSR spells, PSLs, and complimentary skills

[Greatwyrm]

Looking through the Grimoire, it seems like it's pretty easy to get a high penalty to your Magic roll if you're using Requires Skill Roll in your magic system. Even if you're only taking it at the 1/5pts level, it can add up pretty quickly. So, since I'm still pretty new to all this, I'd appreciate any feedback on these questions.

 

1) It looks like Penalty Skill Levels are really only meant for combat stuff like range penalties. Would you allow players to buy them for Magic rolls? Would you need to limit them to something like "only for Fire spells" or "only for Summons"?

 

2) If you had a system where you had one basic Magic power skill, would you allow characters to have Knowledge Skills that are complimentary for skill rolls? For example, a wizard could use KS: Necromancy as a complimentary skill to offset the penalties for trying a particularly difficult Necromancy spell.

[Snarf]

I was thinking of using penalty skill levels for stuff like that but Hero Designer didn't allow it, so I gave up on it.

 

I like the idea of complimentary skill rolls. It could help individulize the characters a lot in a game with a lot of magic users. I would probably set the scope of the knowledge skill at the school of magic level, like your necromancy example.

[Vondy]

I would allow PSLs versus casting penalties.

[Markdoc]

I'm not sure if I would allow PSLs (strangely enough, in years of running FH, this question has never come up...)

 

But I do allow complementary skills for exactly the reason you state: it gives mages something else to spend their points on and differentiates one mage from another.

 

I also levy penalties for doing things like spellcasting in combat, but give bonuses for extra time, good tools and settings, etc. So the smart mage only uses those high active point, big penalty spells when he can afford to take some time, has all his magical gear to hand and has a bunch of minions on hand to prevent any interruptions!

 

cheers, Mark

[Talon]

Since RSR penalties are almost always there, I probably wouldn't allow PSLs to apply. I would and have allowed complementary skills though.

[AlHazred]

Since most spells only have a penalty of -1 per 10 Active Points and I usually use VPP Magic Pools, mages usually only have, at most, a -6 or -7 penalty to their Magic Skill. By the time they've had a chance to train, they usually get their Magic Skill rolls up to 16 or 17 or less, and use Complementary Rolls and "Spell Focuses" (2-point Magic Skill roll bonses, OAF, Only With One School Of Magic) to better their roll. They also learn to do more with smaller spells; a 30-point spell has a penalty of -3, almost never failing for a mage with a 17- roll.

 

I don't allow PSLs for that, since they can more cheaply buy bonuses to Magic Skill. I do allow 1-point bonuses (1 Real point per +1) with the Only With One School Of Magic (-1) limit.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Talon

Since RSR penalties are almost always there, I probably wouldn't allow PSLs to apply. I would and have allowed complementary skills though.

 

How is it different than buying PSLs versus autofire penalties for a character who uses a machine-gun for their primary weapon?

[badger3k]

HD does it - all you have to do is replace the text.

 

In my prefab, its under magical skills. I allow PSLs for magical skills since I limit the roll to 15- (IIRC, nobody is near that yet, so I am blanking on it now - maybe 17 max, I know its under 18 though...).

 

edit - I did it this way for a reason, and after I'm done with dinner I'll see if I can find out why in my notes.

[Greatwyrm]

I appreciate everyone weighing in. One of the coolest things I've found about HERO so far is the number of people willing to help me out without just calling me an idiot (not that it isn't warranted sometimes ).

[dstarfire]

When I first started playing a spell caster, rsr didn't seem that bad. When you've got a faith of 16, even a -4 penalty isn't that devestating.

 

Then somebody had to mention that "ego + 1" means ego ROLL + 1, not just ego characteristic, as I though. Once I relized that, I started buying off all my rsr limitations. It's heineious for powerful spells, especially since I have the worst luck with dice (always seem to roll high for skill/atk rolls and low for dmg rolls).

 

I'd rather take double end, or even concentration rather than rsr. at least with those I know casting a spell's going to be worth the time and effort.

[Guest Hell_spawnEod]

can some1 translate to stupid for me?

 

i dont understand this talk can some1 translate to stupid for me?

[Snarf]

Re: can some1 translate to stupid for me?

 

Originally posted by Hell_spawnEod

i dont understand this talk can some1 translate to stupid for me?

Read the Hero System 5'th Edition, including the part about the Required Skill Roll limitation, and read the parts related to magic in Fantasy Hero. Start asking questions if you still don't get it after that.

[Guest Hell_spawnEod]

ty

 

ty ill read it.. hey do u draw fantasy chars?

[badger3k]

Here's the old thread where something similar came up.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9623

 

It might give ideas.

[Greatwyrm]

Hadn't seen that thread, Badger, thanks.

 

Following up on Foxx's comment about non-combat skills, I think there would be plenty of other ways KS for various specialities of magic would come into play. You could use them for identifying the type of magic with a Detect power, make them a suggestion or requirement if you let players create their own spells, all kinds of stuff.