Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

[travellerne]

Hi All,

 

After visiting a lot of the the abbeys and cathedrals in England last year I got an idea for a Star Hero campaign setting that I'd like to develop. Here's the premise:

 

"A Star Hero campaign set thousands of years in the future, where the existence of God has been proven as a fact and humanity has spread throughout the universe."

 

Obviously, "The Church" will have a large effect on the campaign setting or at least be an influence on everyday life. Religious beliefs and customs might be similar to the beliefs of medieval Europe (or other religious cultures.)

 

I've done a little work on the setting already, but am nowhere near being finished. Any ideas I've suggested are meant only as seeds and not limitations to any ideas people might want to share.

 

Any thoughts? ideas?

 

Hope to talk with you soon,

K.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, since you're suggesting a Church similar to that of medieval times, there are a number of plot elements that could be derived from that premise. Off the top of my head:

 

Hierarchy. Is the Church a diffuse presence, or does it have an institutional structure with rank and tiers of influence? The latter probably has the greater potential for generating complications in your campaign, since various individuals and factions will have vested interests that they desire to preserve and increase.

 

Heresies. Some of the greatest conflicts in history have occured over disputes in interpretation of elements of doctrine. With doctrine accepted as truth, the Church readily lends itself as a powerful support for the established power structure, so these disputes become serious political issues. Marginalization of certain groups, "reformation" movements, persecution, civil war and "crusades" can all be justified under these circumstances. As a corollary to that:

 

The Inquisition. Depending on how rigid and repressive the Church regime is, such an institution may be a tool of the state, or even wield Church control over the state. Accusations of heresy or other forbidden practices, if backed up by threats of excommunication or more corporal punishments, can be an effective way to maintain order and neutralize opponents, not to mention a useful source of revenue from confiscated properties.

 

Chivalry. OTOH the Church may be more benevolent or also wear that aspect, and attempt to promote a code of honor to restrain the excesses of the elites. There may be orders of "knights" dedicated to the highest ideals of their faith, attempting to combat injustices and spread the truth of their religion.

 

Spreading the Faith. The desire to increase the number of followers has been an impetus (or at least a rationale) for missionaries to explore new territories and contact unknown peoples. It's also justified "holy wars" to force the True Faith upon the heathen.

 

Divine Right of Kings. How important is the Church influence to the leaders of this era? Is there separation of Church and State, or do the leaders need to be "ordained" by the Church a la the Holy Roman Empire? In the latter case there's lots of potential for power struggles between temporal and religious leaders.

 

God does not play dice with the universe! Are there areas of scientific knowledge that are sanctioned by the Church, and others that are forbidden? If we're talking about a doctrine of deterministic predestination, things like quantum mechanics and chaos theory may be considered blasphemous, or even akin to witchcraft.

 

The Chosen People. Are there non-human races in your setting? How does the Church view them: as other "peoples" who can (or must) be converted? or as souless blasphemies who are not truly human, and therefore can be persecuted or slain with impunity? Do these aliens accept the faith of mankind, or do they have their own opposed beliefs? To what degree are they allowed to mingle in human society - are they restricted in where they can live, or what type of work they can do? Is there a great nation of non-human "infidels" opposed to humanity?

[zippercomics]

I realize this might not be of a massive help to you, but I figured I'd suggest it no less. If you're looking at doing a Hard Science Fiction, reality of physics and aliens, etc etc type thing, then maybe - if you can - grab a copy of a book called Calculating God. I can't for the life of me remember the author's name (hero cookie to anyone who does), but it's kinda in the same vein as what you're talking about, but with a totally different story. Aliens who come to Earth to study our palentology, but in the process, reveal that they too believe in God, and have proven him a scientific fact.

 

When you read the book, you'll be pretty surprised (I think) by all of the "evidence" to support that claim that is presented. It's science heavy, but it pulled me in.

 

Just a thought. I'd be interested in seeing any end product you develop, man.

[Lord Liaden]

Couple more thoughts

 

Artificial Intelligence. How would religion affect the status of AI intelligences? Are they believed to have "souls?" If not they could be considered inferior beings and treated as property, essentially slaves to organic lifeforms. They could even be declared abominations, mockeries of God's creations, and actively hunted down. They would be forced to conceal themselves, or to flee to distant worlds where they could live in peace. This attitude could also cover products of genetic manipulation, like clones and "altered" organisms.

 

In such an intellectual climate advanced cybernetics and genetics could be among the "banned sciences" I alluded to above.

 

BTW zippercomics, that novel sounds intriguing. I'll have to try to hunt it down. Thanks for the tip.

[Guest zarglif69]

Consider the Pax of the novels Endymion and the Rise of Endymion. There's an interstellar Christian theocracy.

[Tamashii2000]

Other possible things to concider:

Other Religions: The god of one faith being proven as a fact BEGS the question of what happened to the followers of the other religions that were proven wrong. Many may convert, but just as many may refuse to believe the truth and be actively opposed to the offical church.

 

Witch,Warlock and Demon's Oh my: If God is proven to exist, then most likely (playing it safe here) most of the other beings in what ever religion your using also exist. Demons, Witchs, Satan Himself....

[Bookwyrm]

Take a look at the Fading Suns RPG

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Couple more thoughts

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Artificial Intelligence. How would religion affect the status of AI intelligences? Are they believed to have "souls?" If not they could be considered inferior beings and treated as property, essentially slaves to organic lifeforms. They could even be declared abominations, mockeries of God's creations, and actively hunted down. They would be forced to conceal themselves, or to flee to distant worlds where they could live in peace. This attitude could also cover products of genetic manipulation, like clones and "altered" organisms.

 

In such an intellectual climate advanced cybernetics and genetics could be among the "banned sciences" I alluded to above.

 

BTW zippercomics, that novel sounds intriguing. I'll have to try to hunt it down. Thanks for the tip.

 

Okay, kiddies, here's today's phrase for you.

Today's phrase is: Butlerian Jihad.

Can you say Butlerian Jihad?

Sure you can.

 

Major Tom

[Lord Liaden]

I can certainly say it, and I could even Google for it; but maybe you would kindly save me a bit of time and effort and synopsize it for my ignorant self?

 

(I know I've heard this somewhere, but I just can't place it.)

[Guest Major Tom]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I can certainly say it, and I could even Google for it; but maybe you would kindly save me a bit of time and effort and synopsize it for my ignorant self?

 

(I know I've heard this somewhere, but I just can't place it.)

 

Can do, LL. The Butlerian Jihad is a part of the background history

in the Dune series of novels written by Frank Herbert, and is

described as a revolt by humans against the "thinking machines"

(A.I.s, robots, etc.) that had enslaved them. The A.I.s and robots

had originally been the servants of humanity, and to some extent

even ran things (apparently, human beings had become apathetic,

letting the machines do the jobs that they were no longer int-

erested in doing for themselves). After the victory over the

machines, a number of changes were made in human existence

to avoid a repeat of what had nearly destroyed it. One of these

changes was the inclusion of the following commandment in the

prevalent religious doctrine of that time: "Thou shalt not create

a machine in the likeness of a human mind". Another was the

establishment of numerous mental training schools, whose

purpose was to teach human beings to develop and use their

mental capacities, as well as to think for themselves. Only two

of those schools still existed at the beginning of the Dune

saga: the Bene Gesserit school for female students, and the

Spacing Guild.

 

IIRC, there's a new book out that was written by Herbert's son

and some other guy that covers that period, and is even called

The Butlerian Jihad.

 

Does this help you any?

 

Major Tom

[travellerne]

Originally posted by zippercomics

If you're looking at doing a Hard Science Fiction, reality of physics and aliens, etc etc type thing, then maybe - if you can - grab a copy of a book called Calculating God. I can't for the life of me remember the author's name (hero cookie to anyone who does),

...

Just a thought. I'd be interested in seeing any end product you develop, man.

 

Thanks! It's written by "Robert J. Sawyer" and was a Hugo Award finalist. Amazon.com sells the book for $7. I'll have to read it.

 

I'll be glad to share The New Abbey campaign with anyone who is interested. I'm planning to referee it at some local conventions early next year.

 

K.

[travellerne]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

 

The Inquisition. Depending on how rigid and repressive the Church regime is, such an institution may be a tool of the state, or even wield Church control over the state. Accusations of heresy or other forbidden practices, if backed up by threats of excommunication or more corporal punishments, can be an effective way to maintain order and neutralize opponents, not to mention a useful source of revenue from confiscated properties.

 

 

I've started two inquistions for this campaign.

 

Did you know that the Catholic Church had an inquisition until 1969? The Office of the Inquisition studied church dogma (in contrast to the Spanish Inquisitions which tortured lots of people).

 

So, I've thought of two Inquisitions for TNA:

 

The Sagittarian Inquisition is more inquisitive and if a character had them as a Hunted disad, they could expect the nuisance of being called in for a hearing.

 

The Orion Inquisition is more severe. A character Hunted by them could expect punishment, torture and death if found guilty of heresy.

 

What do you all think?

K.

[Battlestaff]

This all sounds good. My only suggestion would be to talk with your players so that no one is offended by the take you have on religion and the church.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Major Tom

Does this help you any?

 

Brings me up to speed nicely, thanks. I'd pretty much forgotten about it - it's been a long time since I read Dune. Weren't the Mentats another of the schools founded after that period, though?

 

If the incentive for persecuting artificial intelligence were religious rather than survival based, the machines might never have oppressed man. They could simply have come to be viewed as blasphemous, and their creation a sin. The conflict could thus be less of a jihad and more of a witchhunt. All seasonable to taste, of course.

[zippercomics]

Yes, do be careful when including religious doctorine or theories in this kind of thing. It's bit me in the but more than once, albeit I've found that the safest bet in those situations is to either lay it all out on the line first, or blame such religious actions on radical or right wing extremists that may or may not operate with the fullest sanction of the church. Still a good idea, though, and if White Wolf could get away with their Inquisition lasting through the Vampire chronicles, I'm sure you can too.

 

Great stuff so far, man.

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

Brings me up to speed nicely' date=' thanks. I'd pretty much forgotten about it - it's been a long time since I read [i']Dune[/i]. Weren't the Mentats another of the schools founded after that period, though?

 

If the incentive for persecuting artificial intelligence were religious rather than survival based, the machines might never have oppressed man. They could simply have come to be viewed as blasphemous, and their creation a sin. The conflict could thus be less of a jihad and more of a witchhunt. All seasonable to taste, of course.

 

I'm not sure about whether or not the Mentats were the product of another

school or not, LL; I sort of had the impression that they were an offshoot of

the Spacing Guild. My personal knowledge of Dune is, unfortunately,

limited to the original book and the movies that have been based on the series

to one extent or another.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help on this point.

 

Major Tom

[travellerne]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

Yes' date=' do be careful when including religious doctorine or theories in this kind of thing. It's bit me in the but more than once, albeit I've found that the safest bet in those situations is to either lay it all out on the line first, or blame such religious actions on radical or right wing extremists that may or may not operate with the fullest sanction of the church. Still a good idea, though, and if White Wolf could get away with their Inquisition lasting through the Vampire chronicles, I'm sure you can too. [/quote']

 

Thanks Zipper.

 

Hopefully I can avoid any problems in two ways:

1) Put the setting so far in the future (maybe 100,000 years) that no issues will be relevant to the modern era. For instance, maybe the concerns of the inquisitions would not anything like religious/political concerns today. For instance, the whole birth control issue might not exist if humans can control their reproductive functions in ways we can't imagine or if one buys the perfect child from a lab somewhere.

 

2) Most fantasy games have deities that no one worries about. So, as you say, lay it out so that every player knows this is a fantasy/sci-fi setting and not an allegory of the real world.

 

Thanks for the input.

K.

[travellerne]

Landsknechts - Re: "The New Abbey"

 

What about groups like the Landsknechts 100,000 years in the future? In our history, they rescued a pope in the Middle Ages and are still the Vatican's police/military force. They are the only army in the world that trains with pike and submachinegun.

 

I wonder what kind of package one would use to design a member of such a group? Probably a few weapon skills, maybe some kind of power armor...

 

K.

[Drakkenkin]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

I imagine a more old/new testament feel ... 'We should go ask Nigel the Prophet and see what god would have us do.'

 

-Will you have prophets, seers, and revelators. God being proven to be a real person, you would have more people devoting themselves more fully.

-Would miracles become more common.

-Would God take a more up front role in their lives (like the children of Israel that were led out of the Egypt.)

 

I would like to see a setting that has a moral majority with law-sets based off the examples of Christ and the 10 commandments. But If the majority lived that way it might cut down on the conflict that a game needs.

 

You could say things were once that way when they found proof God was real, and the world started to except it, But over the centuries the ways of God had become polluted / perverted. This would allow for some twisted laws and beliefs (set up by splinter group in search for power or trying to do what they feel God wants them to do), struggles for power in the clergy, and much much more. I guess, in that respect, there would be more of a middle ages feel.

 

The reason I feel the above is plausible is because people would still have their free agency to do what they would like. Even if you had prophets that talked with God,teaching the people, some people would still choose to seek after power and money. Especially after centuries had gone by and the state of the world had become common place ... unless their was a paradigm shift...

 

I feel that the proof of God would also prove the existence of the Devil. Something that Tamashii2000 brought up. The Devil, in what ever form you may have him, would have his own followers, both spiritual and mortal.

[Drakkenkin]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

Here is a question (and follow up comments) I thought of once I was done with the last post.

 

-Even if God was proven to be real, would other faiths be proven wrong?

 

Unless you believed that there is no God, no doctrine would be proven just by the existence of God. Religious fervor could increase, even to a suppressive state (weather God wanted it or not.) Unless God or a messenger came down and gave EVERYONE the 411 on what they should or should not do, we would still be in square one. Heck, I could see the world almost being torn apart by that fact as each belief system tries to convert the world to the 'right way'.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Guest zarglif69]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

Here is a question (and follow up comments) I thought of once I was done with the last post.

 

-Even if God was proven to be real, would other faiths be proven wrong?

 

Unless you believed that there is no God, no doctrine would be proven just by the existence of God. Religious fervor could increase, even to a suppressive state (weather God wanted it or not.) Unless God or a messenger came down and gave EVERYONE the 411 on what they should or should not do, we would still be in square one. Heck, I could see the world almost being torn apart by that fact as each belief system tries to convert the world to the 'right way'.

 

Just my 2 cents

Michael Savage envisions God as being the hub of a great wheel, with religions being the spokes of that wheel. They worship Him in different ways, but no way is wrong, and all lead to Him.

 

Just my 2 Commercia

[travellerne]

Re: Campaign Brainstorming: "The New Abbey"

 

Unless you believed that there is no God' date=' no doctrine would be proven just by the existence of God. Religious fervor could increase, even to a suppressive state (weather God wanted it or not.) Unless God or a messenger came down and gave EVERYONE the 411 on what they should or should not do, we would still be in square one. Heck, I could see the world almost being torn apart by that fact as each belief system tries to convert the world to the 'right way'.[/quote']

 

Hmm. I hadn't thought of all that. Especially the 411 bit. It might go right back to religion in the middle ages: where most everyone was sure God existed and did great things; but, they also slaughtered each other (even within the same faith) over their differences in belief.

 

Good point. Thanks.

K.

[travellerne]

Monk's Garb?

 

Hey,

 

100,000 years in the future, when humankind has colonized much of space, what do you think monks and priests would wear?

 

K.

[Drakkenkin]

Re: Monk's Garb?

 

Hey,

 

100,000 years in the future, when humankind has colonized much of space, what do you think monks and priests would wear?

 

K.

 

That depends on their belief system. You could have fundamentalists that think we should get back to the basics and leave tech behind as it distracts us and keeps us form learning from God. You could also have a group on the other side that sees the knowledge that created the tech they have as a gift from God and that it should be used (in correct ways) in day to day life to show respect.

 

Over all you could have them wear anything, but for the sake of story telling they would most likely wear something that would be different from the norm. Personally I like how the priests and religious people dressed in the movie "5th Element."

 

Drakkenkin

[travellerne]

Re: Monk's Garb?

 

That depends on their belief system. You could have fundamentalists that think we should get back to the basics and leave tech behind as it distracts us and keeps us form learning from God. You could also have a group on the other side that sees the knowledge that created the tech they have as a gift from God and that it should be used (in correct ways) in day to day life to show respect.

 

Over all you could have them wear anything, but for the sake of story telling they would most likely wear something that would be different from the norm. Personally I like how the priests and religious people dressed in the movie "5th Element."

 

Drakkenkin

 

Thanks Drakkenkin!

 

I think I will create two orders that are diametrically opposed on this matter for the campaign.

 

One rejecting technology. But would they be limited to one world? As star travel is a matter of technology. They could even be one of the heresies--albeit a minor an mostly unnoticed one. Maybe even confined to one planet; or, springing up independently on a number of planets.

 

The other extreme would be a more mainstream order that embraces technology and gets around more.

 

K.