Rene Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Maybe this is a dumb question, but humour me. I was wondering how to build Ant-Man's shrinking gas in HERO. He can shrink himself, he can shrink other people and objects, and he also can do both simultaneously. At first one might think that something like the Usable Simultaneously Advantage would be the ideal answer, but Hank Pym can shrink opponents against their will, so it's Usable as Attack. But I've read that you normally can't use Usable as Attack powers on yourself, and even if the GM'd allow it, I don't think you could shrink both yourself and your enemy in a single Phase. So we'd have to buy two different powers? I was thinking about a Multipower, but problem is, that would make it hard to use the two slots at the same time. The right way then seems to be to buy the powers completely separated. It's just that it seems ridiculous to pay 400+ points (when you consider it's also lengthy Continuing Charges, and lots of them) for this ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Shrinking, AoE? Major Transform, AoE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Shrinking, AoE? Major Transform, AoE? Area of Effect don't automatically converts Self-Only powers into Attacks. And Transforms can't be used to change yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Wait a minute-- shouldn't it be very expensive to shrink a number of people to ant size simultaneously? I mean, you have a solution already: Shrinking UAA, AoE linked to Shrinking. It just costs a lot. But shouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Shrinking, UAA, AE. This will enable your character to fill the area immediately around him with his shrinking gas, shrinking everybody in that area (including himself). You can apply Ranged or Time Delay if he can affect an area he's not in. Or just buy the area at 1 hex (or a second slot in a Multipower as such) so he can just effect the hex next to his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Wait a minute-- shouldn't it be very expensive to shrink a number of people to ant size simultaneously? I mean' date=' you have a solution already: Shrinking UAA, AoE linked to Shrinking. It just costs a lot. But shouldn't it?[/quote'] Should it? Remember that you're not making them any weaker or more frail. You're actually giving them an advantage. The only problems associated with Shrinking are psychological and social ones. Just compare the price to the same power with the Usable Simultaneously Advantage. You're paying a LOT more for something that isn't such a big improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Posted March 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Shrinking, UAA, AE. This will enable your character to fill the area immediately around him with his shrinking gas, shrinking everybody in that area (including himself). You can apply Ranged or Time Delay if he can affect an area he's not in. Or just buy the area at 1 hex (or a second slot in a Multipower as such) so he can just effect the hex next to his. I like it. Still a bit more expensive than I think it should be, but much more affordable than buying this huge power and linking it to a normal self-only Shrinking. Still... can you apply both AE and UAA to a power? Isn't this slightly unofficial? I think the book-approved mechanic would be the x2 mass/targets thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Well, they take a lot more Knockback. But IMO, it should cost a lot to wreak large-scale physical changes on another person, let alone whoever happens to be in a 6" radius. I honestly do think being one inch tall carries with it a number of significant disadvantages, and not just social ones. Also, IMO, whoever's affected should get to apply something like Power Defense against it, and it should be bought with the Shrinking equivalent of All or Nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field I like it. Still a bit more expensive than I think it should be, but much more affordable than buying this huge power and linking it to a normal self-only Shrinking. Still... can you apply both AE and UAA to a power? Isn't this slightly unofficial? I think the book-approved mechanic would be the x2 mass/targets thing. Reading each Advantage, there's nothing that says you can't, or shouldn't, combine them. If you want an established precedent, check out Gates, an example for Teleport, which combines AE with UBO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadWand Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field You could do this with an area effect drain vs. the appropriate stats - STR, knockback resistance, and any other stat you think would be negatively affected by being shrunk. The fact that you are smaller is a special effect. Or, a minor or major transform, to give the physical disadvantage "1 inch tall" would also work. If it's a major transform, you could also set the physical stats at whatever you wanted. An area effect shrinking, or shinking usable by others, would be appropriate if you wanted to temporarily shrink you and your teammates down for some purpose. Put all these things in a multipower, SFX "shrinking gas" and just choose the specific power that most suits what you want to do at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Still... can you apply both AE and UAA to a power? Isn't this slightly unofficial? I think the book-approved mechanic would be the x2 mass/targets thing. Fantasy Hero gave a tentative thumbs up to it. It basically said that in general it's forbidden but your GM could allow it if it's the only way to accomplish the effect you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Posted April 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Just wanted to thank you all for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Where does it say UAA can not be used on self? But anyways that is what MP's are for I do think this is a case of a drain with a Side Effect (The target character does get a DCV Bonus from it). It is a contrafiction of the character that when he shinks someone they do not get to keep there str but he does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Posted April 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Where does it say UAA can not be used on self? But anyways that is what MP's are for ... Hmm... I think I've read in the rules's FAQ that it's not advised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodshot Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but couldn't you use Change Environment to do this? I don't have my books with me at work (the boss would notice I think ), but I can see putting together the right combination of modifiers to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devlin1 Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Just do a Growth, UAA, AoE, Only Vs. Environment, and make everything else bigger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted April 2, 2004 Report Share Posted April 2, 2004 Re: Ant-Man's shrinking field Ametures... EDM, to a dimension where everything is larger. Or Transform....Transform can do anything! (except kill, aparently it's a Disney genie thing...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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