Memory And Flash?

[Magmarock]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

I've been following this thread since it started. I have to say that I don't believe Memory is a sense so much as a function of one's thought process. Or rather, it's the end result of that process. The memory is a depository of what one knows; a personal database comprised of knowledge, conjecture and experienced.

 

In this case, if one can "Flash" your memory, then they should be able to "Flash" all of your skills, too. It goes to follow that if skills can be Flashed, then they can be Drained, Suppressed, etc. This all treads too close to the mental powers catagory, which conflicts with my idea of senses being a physical part of one's abilities. Sure, you can learn how to listen but this is the same as learning how to walk. Knowing how to do something and being able to do it are two different things.

 

As for flashing memory, I'm not sure I'd allow this in my campaign, but if I did it would have to be one hell of a character concept.

 

Mags

[austenandrews]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

Eidetic Memory is built as Clairvoyance? That's dumb.

 

Off the top of my head, I'd build a memory-affecting power as Mind Control.

 

-AA

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

'S funny..When we were talking about Invisibility to memory, not too long ago, the consensus opinion at that time seemed to be against memory as a sense. Either time has changed the general perspective, or it's just a different cast of characters:straight:

[Sociotard]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

Interesting comments, especially

With senses' date=' it's easy to figure out what happens when you are affected by Darkness or a Flash. It's not even open to discussion. But one of the original questions that started this thread is "what happens?" If you don't know, it's probably not a sense you are working with.[/quote'] But then, Memory aside, what happens if we flash clairsentience.

I could reasonably declare Find Weakness a Sense because it detects areas of weakness in a target's DEF that can be exploited. Except that it doesn't work like a Sense or is even used like a Sense. [/Quote] And yet page 85 of FREd lists the following as being sensory powers:

• Clairsentience
  
• Enhanced Senses (such as n-ray vision, sonar, hrrp, etc.)
  
• Find weakness
  
• Mind Scan
  

And the following Sense-Affecting Powers:

• Darkness
  
• Flash
  
• Images
  
• Invisibility
  

Should all of the latter affect all of the former? Could any of the former affect all of the latter? Or do Sense affecting Powers only fiddle with Enhanced and Normal Senses? I can see how memory in general should usually be handled with mental powers and transforms, but as long as this can of worms is open, why not take a look at how Sensory powers in general are affected by sense affecting powers.

[zornwil]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

One could "reasonably" say a lot of things about the rules, especially Senses. But just because you can say it doesn't make it a good idea.

 

I could reasonably declare Find Weakness a Sense because it detects areas of weakness in a target's DEF that can be exploited. Except that it doesn't work like a Sense or is even used like a Sense. Same thing with memory. Memory doesn't act like a Sense and isn't used like a Sense. Depending your definition, it might have some sense-like properties, but that doesn't make it a sense.

Given you can flash or darken speech per the book, I feel comfortable with my reasoning. Obviously, your mileage varies.

[zornwil]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

Eidetic Memory is built as Clairvoyance? That's dumb.

 

Off the top of my head, I'd build a memory-affecting power as Mind Control.

 

-AA

Of course that's fair as well, I think it becomes a matter of utility and costing among the approaches.

[zornwil]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

I'm just glad 5th ed. cleared up senses!

 

Seriously, it's progress. But obviously there's still some clarification to go to attain a clearly orthodox ruling on areas like this.

[austenandrews]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

I don't know how the rules word it, but I'm conceptually okay with Sociotard's two lists defining the what affects what. Flashing Clairsentience is just like Flashing any sense - it doesn't work for the period of effect. Images v.s. Mind Scan would spoof a mind. I'd have to look at the point breakdowns for Invisibility to Find Weakness, but I suspect the high cost of Invisibility would make it reasonably balanced against Lack Of Weakness. There's nothing ambiguous here.

 

The problem isn't what happens with Flash v.s. Clairvoyance. The problem is that neither Eidetic Memory nor any other memory should be considered a sense. If you want to make someone forget the last ten minutes, hit them with Mind Control and the command, "Forget the last ten minutes."

 

-AA

[zornwil]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

I don't know how the rules word it, but I'm conceptually okay with Sociotard's two lists defining the what affects what. Flashing Clairsentience is just like Flashing any sense - it doesn't work for the period of effect. Images v.s. Mind Scan would spoof a mind. I'd have to look at the point breakdowns for Invisibility to Find Weakness, but I suspect the high cost of Invisibility would make it reasonably balanced against Lack Of Weakness. There's nothing ambiguous here.

 

The problem isn't what happens with Flash v.s. Clairvoyance. The problem is that neither Eidetic Memory nor any other memory should be considered a sense. If you want to make someone forget the last ten minutes, hit them with Mind Control and the command, "Forget the last ten minutes."

 

-AA

Valid point. Actually the biggest problem I see as I now reflect is that as Flash is all-or-nothing, Flash against Memory would need to work against Memory as a whole, not a selective portion. Also the skills effects, which I've pondered from above are too serious and get too complicated. I recant: Mind Control is the way to go. You can build it with Uncontrolled and other advantages to simulate the effect of it lasting only a certain time or under certain conditions.

[Farkling]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

Alright...here's my two bits....I was a participant in the computer/AI thread and the invisibility thread, and we hashed over a lot of this stuff bridging between mental and psuedo intelligent electronics....and I took notes for my campaign.

 

1) Invisibility or Darkness for the effect of "not remembering who I talked to" are not interfering with memory. They are interfering with the PER to ACQUIRE the memory. you cut it off at the source...it does not enter the memory. Invisibility seemed more appropriate for the "some average looking fellow" effect. Darkness for the "SOME body talked to me...I just don't knwo who and where." By the same token you could probably use a limited flash field to conk out the PER ... but that would engender the effect of "who are you again?"

 

The MIB gadget flashes Mental senses I think...then they hit them with the Mind Control while they are at half ECV.

 

2) Suppressing or altering memories is pretty much Mind Control. The original is still there, but buried undeneath the Mind Control. Permanently changing a memory (like erasing a hard drive completely) requires a Trasform Attack. Cosmetic for trivial stuff, Minor for simple changes, Major for life reconstruction.

Both would be needed to create a Manchurian Candidate.

 

3) What happens if you Flash someone's vestibular sense, the sense that tells us where "up" and "down" are and our physical relationship to those directions? Or their kinesthetic sense, the sense that tells us where our hands and feet are at any given moment? These are considered senses by most neurologists.

 

and they are the psuedoscientists dream....

Vestibular: A visual flash covers the combat effects...so does a vertigo limited mental illusion. Darkness could cover it too...if I wanted to do it in an area.

Kinesthetic: Again...Flash covers a lot of the combat effects...SFX is kinesthesia....but the combat effects would be very much like blindness...if absolutely incapable of controlled function...I'd look at Mental Entangle fields or Illusions at the "divorced from reality" level.

[Sociotard]

Re: Memory And Flash?

 

Good Stuff, Farkling!

 

I wonder if I can flash someones sense of decency?